|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
|
 Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:54 am Post subject: Korean Teachers III |
 |
|
I happened to go by the office space today, and my favorite (factious) Korean teacher I have to teach was ----- at my personal desk with the other troops (other teachers I have to teach) that she rallies around her.
About 7 of them were surrounding my desk, and sitting in my chair, where I keep personal items - like pictures of my wife (Korean), postcards to my sick and likely dying father, notes from class, materials for class, my Bible, and other items...
I opened the door and said a not-very-friendly "hello" and as I spoke, I got the obligatory Korean "sorry sorry"....but 5 minutes later when I walked by again, the ring leader and others were still surrounding and using my desk.
This office has about 15 desks. It also has a table for meetings and group work if needed....
....I taught Korean adults for 2 years my first time in Korea. I had 15-30 or so new adults rotating into classes month to month. I got to see a lot of them over those 2 years.
I have been married to a Korean for 11 years.
I have a MA in Korean Studies.
I've read the Korean press for 13 or so years.
I have some idea of what is going on....
.....I refused to change my teaching method for a certain class, and one of the elementary school teachers exploded briefly. She apologized, but still...I got only 1 negative review in my evaluation, and I'm sure it was her.
And since the refusal, she has been leading any of the other Korean staff people who will follow into ---- taking even the smallest petty revenges against me.
Using my desk, when one of the foreign teachers she and her click like is right beside it, is part of that petty revenge.
I, of course, am in a no-win situation - from a Western perspective.
If I were Korean, I would barge in and let my temper go fully - because I have been obviously, to everyone, provoked, and being provoked ---- justifies any type of action --- even if petty --- or outrageous.
In the late 1990s, I worked in Bundang -- a "wealthy" area for the upper middle class and so on ---- and every weekend, if I went to E-Mart, I would see a fight between two female Koreans. Every weekend. It got to the point I thought I could do a pretty good sociological thesis on the culture of the place...
Koreans are the most generous of people you can ever meet. Generous to the point of absurdity - to a Western eye.
But ---- if you are not in the individual Korean's "circle" -- he/she can feel free to be incredibly rude to you.
And if they feel you have "crossed" them, they can be extremely hot headed --- or petty....
....The ring leader chose the petty route ---- when she saw being hot headed still wouldn't budge me.
If I go to the administration, she wins....She knows she has struck a nerve......and the administration won't do enough to make her care. Victory is hers.
If I don't say anything --- she will continue to lead others to use my desk in my personal office space...and do whatever else she needs to do to ---- put me in my place and let me know I crossed her.
..........Yes...........I'm back in Korea....... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Location: South Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm sorry to hear about these petty hassles, Iggyb. At least you know you will be understood here. I am currently observing a similar petty grievance against me, although not as bad as your situation.
And the funniest thing is that I did nothing: I complimented a math Korean teacher in the teacher room, and caught her and another Korean teacher making sarcastic remarks about it in Korean. They were probably angry because my Ko-teachers told me and advised me not to go on a school trip that no one wanted to attend. It wasn't my fault, I did nothing to them, AND I was being genuinely friendly and nice when I obviously caught and understood what they were doing.
But, I never reacted, and never even became hostile, except to sort of not really see them in the teacher's room anymore, the same way everyone else treats me for the most part. Now, they are obstinately unfriendly, when I say hello or look their way.
It is actually so petty and childish it amazes me, really. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| and advised me not to go on a school trip that no one wanted to attend. |
Thanks.
If you don't go on the trip, they will use it against you, and they'll win over other Korean staff who are neutral or with you.
Being part of a "circle" means you go places and do things - even if you don't want to.
If you refuse...or leave early....you become a "wangta" -- left out king...
At least that was the case in the late 1990s. I haven't seen enough to know how much it has changed.
Being a "wangta" means --- they can treat you as they wish. Even in ways that seem damn petty to a non-Korean.
.....The ring leader in my situation is trying hard to "wangta" me.
Judging by my evaluations, she hasn't succeeded enough, yet.
....I guess enough of the Korean teachers realize I'm doing what I think is in their best interest as people wanting to increase their English ability -- even if they disagree with my methods and objectives.
....Overall, I'm just extremely pissed at the ring leader and one other of them....
Last edited by iggyb on Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Korean Teachers III |
|
|
lol. rare that I find a post amusing on here.
| iggyb wrote: |
I, of course, am in a no-win situation - from a Western perspective.
If I were Korean, I would barge in and let my temper go fully - because I have been obviously, to everyone, provoked, and being provoked ---- justifies any type of action --- even if petty --- or outrageous. |
Sometimes I just wish I could let fly at my coworkers. Once a fortnight would be about right. Tell them straight, clear the air, and let it be forgotten within the hour..before starting over with a blank slate. I really miss the whole western freedom of expression thing sometimes. Don't get me wrong, sometimes westerners are too direct and unnecesarily confrontational, but ultimately everyone gets to express what they want to.
| Quote: |
| And if they feel you have "crossed" them, they can be extremely hot headed --- or petty.... |
Well yeah. You're talking political repercussions for months over any imagined slight.
| Quote: |
| If I go to the administration, she wins....She knows she has struck a nerve......and the administration won't do enough to make her care. Victory is hers. |
This is what gets me. Koreans always rig any and every social system entirely in their favor. Unless there is zero risk to them, then they don't want to play. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ssem
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Location: California / Seoul
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Korean Teachers III |
|
|
| iggyb wrote: |
I happened to go by the office space today, and my favorite (factious) Korean teacher I have to teach was ----- at my personal desk with the other troops (other teachers I have to teach) that she rallies around her.
About 7 of them were surrounding my desk, and sitting in my chair, where I keep personal items - like pictures of my wife (Korean), postcards to my sick and likely dying father, notes from class, materials for class, my Bible, and other items...
I opened the door and said a not-very-friendly "hello" and as I spoke, I got the obligatory Korean "sorry sorry"....but 5 minutes later when I walked by again, the ring leader and others were still surrounding and using my desk.
I have a MA in Korean Studies.
I've read the Korean press for 13 or so years.
...
If I were Korean, I would barge in and let my temper go fully - because I have been obviously, to everyone, provoked, and being provoked ---- justifies any type of action --- even if petty --- or outrageous. |
Aside from personal pride, what, if anything, is stopping you from pulling her aside and asking her to voice her displeasure or yelling at her and the other teachers for causing a nuisance while you are trying to teach?
She is obviously aware of what she is trying to do, and the more passive that you are about it the longer she will continue and the more emboldened by your inactivity she will become. I think that I would have had to tell her, very clearly, in Korean if possible, to please not utilize my desk when I am not at it. This to be said in front of as many people as possible. It doesn't have to be said angrily, but just so that everybody knows you asked her not to and she continued to do so, this puts the grievance between the two of you out into the air for everyone to judge it.
The other option, as a Korean would do in this situation, is to yell at her publicly the next time she fronts to you or challenges your authority. This can be hard to pull off though. If her English is sufficiently good you can go that route, but there's a big danger of the message not being adequately conveyed.
| iggyb wrote: |
But ---- if you are not in the individual Korean's "circle" -- he/she can feel free to be incredibly rude to you.
And if they feel you have "crossed" them, they can be extremely hot headed --- or petty....
....The ring leader chose the petty route ---- when she saw being hot headed still wouldn't budge me.
If I go to the administration, she wins....She knows she has struck a nerve......and the administration won't do enough to make her care. Victory is hers.
If I don't say anything --- she will continue to lead others to use my desk in my personal office space...and do whatever else she needs to do to ---- put me in my place and let me know I crossed her.
..........Yes...........I'm back in Korea....... |
When did you figure out about the "circle of trust" thingy? I think I had an epiphany about 5 years ago and started calling it "person/non-person" and have used it to guide my dealings in Asia since then when it applies. If you're in the circle, congratulations, you are a person. If not... sorry...
There are of course exceptions to this rule, but I think it explains the long term friendships that people make and the deep bonds, as well as the way that people who are not in the circle are treated as if they didn't exist. Also a very good way to explain the culture of nepotism and favoritism that is slowly fading from Korea but has existed for much of the 10 years that I've been in love with the country.
But seriously though. Yell at that teacher. She sounds like she needs it.
CarlSSem |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Tell them straight, clear the air, and let it be forgotten within the hour..before starting over with a blank slate. I really miss the whole western freedom of expression thing sometimes. |
Well, this is a Korean culture thing too...
One of the purposes of (mandatory) group outings to get stinking drunk is....or simply being a hot headed culture is.....you can explode at will if "crossed" and all is (supposedly) clear the day after.
Of course, this doesn't work if you are too "senior" --- either in age or rank....
We have a foreign staff member who has cut loose on --- well - exactly the same group that causes me trouble --- and they take even more petty revenge against her --- but they also straighten up and fly right during her instruction time.
.....My temper is just too hot when I blow.....which is why I work hard to maintain it...
.....And I'm a professional educator - in at least the Western sense, and I'll work to educate even the ring leader --- though I am only human and my performance can't help but be affected.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
I should add.....
I teach high school ESL and English in the US. If disrespect from some quarters or getting angry occasionally really bothered me, I'd be in a different profession....
.....This is what venting was invented for.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Korean Teachers III |
|
|
| Ssem wrote: |
The other option, as a Korean would do in this situation, is to yell at her publicly the next time she fronts to you or challenges your authority. This can be hard to pull off though. If her English is sufficiently good you can go that route, but there's a big danger of the message not being adequately conveyed. |
What is better is if you put your foot down without any screaming. Raise your voice but don't completely fly off the handle. That way they are left a tiny slither of face to save.
If you totally go ballistic and obliterate them in front of all the other Koreans, expect a long war of attrition for the entire year following. Its ok if you're ready to quit anyway, but if you're going to be sticking around then she will use everything at her disposal, relentlessly, to hamper, undermine and discredit you for months afterward. Be firm but not hyper- dramatic is my advice. Its usually enough.
Personally I don't trust my own temper (I have bloodied my boss's nose in times past  ) so I generally try hard not to even go there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Original poster, you need one of these http://www.thepooter.com
I would totally rip on the Korean teachers that try to change how you teach. I had one who told me to talk slower. So I made it so stupid it completely shut her up and then I said, "Now, can I get back to my lesson?" at normal speed.
Last edited by lifeinkorea on Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:47 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have to teach the ring leader's group tomorrow. My guess is that they will bring it up themselves - probably her. I will explain that it is rude and so on.
It won't help. She will continue to push. She has been "crossed."
I won't be teaching them after a couple more weeks, and until then, I will just keep personal things away from my desk. I'd rather not give her the personal satisfaction of confronting her, and I don't trust my bad temper enough to control it if I get into this discussion too much (too heatedly) with her and the others.
.....In short.....I'm not Korean.....though I'm happily married to one....
| Quote: |
When did you figure out about the "circle of trust" thingy? |
Between 4 to 6 months in teaching a lot of Korean adults.
I heard enough stories about Koreans loaning significant amounts of money to "friend" and getting stiffed to understand they can be generous to the point of absurdity to a Western perspective.
I also saw enough of them being extremely hot headed to people for what seemed to me a small slight to come to that working conclusion.
| Quote: |
| If you totally go ballistic and obliterate them in front of all the other Koreans, expect a long war of attrition for the entire year following. |
See....I know my temper as well... When it blows, it isn't pretty to see....and I don't trust myself enough in letting it go just a little...
....and I won't be teaching them after a couple of weeks.
I can......as Koreans say........endure..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There is a really good way of dealing with bad advice from your co-teacher. I had one tell me I needed to play more games and use less listen and repeat. This is an absurd request because I play more games than the entire English department combined. I use lots of those Powerpoint games of EFL Classroom 2.0. Despite that one of my co-teachers thinks my class should be non stop games.
When a Korean co-teacher offers you advice that you don't agree with. Act concerned and make them think you intend of following through with her/his advice. This alows him/her to save face. There's nothing more humiliating for a Korean English for Academic Purposes teacher to face than a foreigner not following her/his advice.
When you go back to your classroom carry on as you did before. The odds of Korean Teacher confronting you about not following his/her poor advice is really remote. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Location: South Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| iggyb wrote: |
| Quote: |
| and advised me not to go on a school trip that no one wanted to attend. |
Thanks.
If you don't go on the trip, they will use it against you, and they'll win over other Korean staff who are neutral or with you.
Being part of a "circle" means you go places and do things - even if you don't want to.
If you refuse...or leave early....you become a "wangta" -- left out king...
At least that was the case in the late 1990s. I haven't seen enough to know how much it has changed.
Being a "wangta" means --- they can treat you as they wish. Even in ways that seem damn petty to a non-Korean.
.....The ring leader in my situation is trying hard to "wangta" me.
Judging by my evaluations, she hasn't succeeded enough, yet.
....I guess enough of the Korean teachers realize I'm doing what I think is in their best interest as people wanting to increase their English ability -- even if they disagree with my methods and objectives.
....Overall, I'm just extremely pissed at the ring leader and one other of them.... |
Yes, I am aware of the "outside/inside" rank of Asian culture. However, I skipped the outing on the strong advice and recommendation of my Ko-teachers, after I told them that I was completely open to doing whatever was most accommodating; big mistake. The next day, in front of the entire teacher's room and principal, she announces that I am not going, in Korean that I could not understand.
I KNOW that I am being thrown under the bus constantly, cannot represent myself to the principal in my own words, cannot discipline some student's blatant disrespect without the intervention of the Ko-teachers, who then undermine me to the students, and of course choose the worst possible time to hand out student evaluations of their teacher ... I know, but the point is there is absolutely nothing I can do, except find a better job, I hope. That would be the best "revenge."
Iggyb, you are a professional educator. I don't know what your personal theories are on education, but surely you have heard of the grade school techer's method of "taking down" the alpha kid first, turn them into an ally, and then you can focus on teaching your class without distractions.
Just treat this like grade school. Find a way to first show her your authority as her teacher, and then "build her up" so that she sees it is much better for her to work with you, rather than against.
Remember, YOU are the one teaching and grading HER, therefore she is not the authority over you. You need to show her this, not by screaming and shouting, but by quietly and in no uncertain terms not taking her BS. When you saw them disrespecting your space and personal property, they were disrespecting you. If necessary, you can ask what a Korean professor would do or expect, and do the same. But as we know, they most likely would not flout the same social taboos with a Korean, we have to also follow our own rules.
You should have calmly but firmly either asserted your physical space by walking over to your desk and using it, forcing them to leave it, or told them that there are desks and other areas for STUDENTS to use and your desk is not included. End of story. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks, honestly...but...
I don't really get to grade or evaluate them. And they were doing this on my personal time after classes, and I since I'm so busy, I didn't want to waste my waking free time dealing with two particular students.
Also, those two students are going to take their petty revenge regardless of what I do. They have proven with another teacher who dressed them down. They have also ridden straight through verbal admonitions by the administration - telling complete, bold faced lies about what they had been doing, and lies that were obvious to all - but they still come back doing the same thing.
With the ring leader and dear follower, this is about payback, and they will not let it go as long as I have to deal with them.
It is what it is. And thankfully, it will be over soon.
If it were less of a conscious effort on the ring leader's part, it might be something that could be worked out. It isn't.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Korean Teachers III |
|
|
| iggyb wrote: |
About 7 of them were surrounding my desk, and sitting in my chair, where I keep personal items - like pictures of my wife (Korean), postcards to my sick and likely dying father, notes from class, materials for class, my Bible, and other items... |
I am having a really hard time fathoming how these other teachers can show you such disrespect. This absolute lack of respect came about from just that one misunderstanding (see below)? This boggles the mind.
| iggyb wrote: |
.....I refused to change my teaching method for a certain class, and one of the elementary school teachers exploded briefly. She apologized, but still...I got only 1 negative review in my evaluation, and I'm sure it was her. |
How exactly did you voice your refusal here? That she would blow up on you sounds so alien to me. I can't imagine any teacher in my whole school behaving this way to me. Not one. These events sound like the last straw kind of situation; the tip of the iceberg. What kind of personality do you have? Are you Korean? Do you have a good sense of humor? Are you easy going but firm? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am easy going and have a sense of humor.
It was a public speaking course - which of course nobody likes.
She wanted to change the course to take the pressure of public speaking out of it - which defeated the whole course - and when I politely explained the pedagogical reasons for doing the course a certain way, she threw up reason after reason why I should [read "must"] change, and when I still said we would continue the course as designed - she blew. (Nobody else did.)
Last edited by iggyb on Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
