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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| eIn07912 wrote: |
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| �Its function is to lower discriminatory barriers against foreign brides by providing job or educational programmes,� |
This much is true. However, the test of a more tolerant nation would be to allow the foreign brides to recognize speaking the native language would be greatly beneficial to themselves and their family, but allow them the choice as to learn it or not. Not force it upon them as a criteria for successful immigration. |
Indeed. What a terrible country. All tolerant nations like Canada for example...oh wait now.
http://www.americanlaw.com/cdncitnat.html
Looks like speaking one of Canada's official languages is a requirement for citizenship.
And the article does say that they will be teaching "foreign brides" Korean...presumably they are already married and have immigrated to the country. |
There's a massive difference between citizenship and apporving a marriage visa. |
But not so much between "successful immigration" and citizenship which is what I was pointing out to begin with. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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A Korean language requirement for citizenship is a given.
For F2 (marriage) visas, I can even see some sort of language requirement. But the language requirement should be for visa issuance and NOT marriage "approval".
I also wonder is, for marriage visas, a simple language "compatibility" test would suffice. For example, my wife is fluent in English, so obviously we can communicate. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
Does the Canadian government speak in terms of "approving" inter-racial marriages? |
Does the Korean government have the authority to approve/deny inter-racial marriages? I really doubt that any of the people here who are married to Koreans, wrote to the government asking for permission. Sounds more like a bad English interpretation.
To get the F-2 or F-5 visa yes. But not to get married. It sounds more likely they are talking about putting a language requirement for the above visas.
I mean, there are lots of people here who've talked about their marriages and not once, did they ever mention having to get approval from the government for their marriage, even though it was inter-racial. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
Does the Canadian government speak in terms of "approving" inter-racial marriages? |
Does the Korean government have the authority to approve/deny inter-racial marriages? I really doubt that any of the people here who are married to Koreans, wrote to the government asking for permission. Sounds more like a bad English interpretation.
To get the F-2 or F-5 visa yes. But not to get married. It sounds more likely they are talking about putting a language requirement for the above visas.
I mean, there are lots of people here who've talked about their marriages and not once, did they ever mention having to get approval from the government for their marriage, even though it was inter-racial. |
And yet now the Korean government is talking in terms of "approving" marriages.
That's not the main point anyway. The point is that you tried to say that the Korean government implementing a language requirement to approve inter-racial marriages is the same as the Canadian government's language ability requirement for citizenship. |
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thrylos
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see why there's a need to speak Korean for an F2 visa.
Arguably, there's a need to speak Korean for an F5, meaning you're a permanent resident and no one's sponsoring you to stay here, like the E 1/2 and F2's, but there's no need to speak Korean to get an F2, which means you're a foreigner residing in Korea due to marriage.
Apart from the fact that you're entitled to some benefits other foreigners aren't, you're still being guaranteed by your Korean spouse and they'll get into doo-doo if you screw anything up. Why do you need Korean if you're still nominally sponsored by an individual (as opposed to a school/hagwon)? |
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asams
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Who else sees this as an attempt to decrease the number of interracial marriages disguised as a progressive "initiative" that will supposedly help acclimate more people to Korean culture? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
Does the Canadian government speak in terms of "approving" inter-racial marriages? |
Does the Korean government have the authority to approve/deny inter-racial marriages? I really doubt that any of the people here who are married to Koreans, wrote to the government asking for permission. Sounds more like a bad English interpretation.
To get the F-2 or F-5 visa yes. But not to get married. It sounds more likely they are talking about putting a language requirement for the above visas.
I mean, there are lots of people here who've talked about their marriages and not once, did they ever mention having to get approval from the government for their marriage, even though it was inter-racial. |
And yet now the Korean government is talking in terms of "approving" marriages.
That's not the main point anyway. The point is that you tried to say that the Korean government implementing a language requirement to approve inter-racial marriages is the same as the Canadian government's language ability requirement for citizenship. |
No, I never said any such thing. That was what you assumed. I was responding to eIn07912's post. S/he stated that the language should not be forced "upon them as a criteria for successful immigration" and that a more tolerant country would not do this
I merely pointed out that in Canada which is a pretty tolerant country that it is a criteria for citizenship (which would seem to be the ultimate pinnacle of successful immigration).
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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You guys miss the point.
Most of these foreign brides can't speak Korean when they get here. How many of the K-Husbands, speak Vietnamese/English/Thai/Cambodian, etc... that's right, practically NONE. So you throw tens of thousands of these brides into a country where they can't speak the language, they can't communicate with their husbands, coupled with some of the inherent "qualities" of the hermit kingdom, is anyone surprised this is creating a huge social disaster.
For those crying foul, Korea actually has EXTREMELY relaxed requirements for residency visas based on marriage. Most Western countries have a "good faith" clause regarding marriage visas, where the couple have to prove they have been in a relationship/married for a period of time prior to the visa being granted.
In the case of EnglishteacherJoe and his K-wife, this is a completely separate issue:
1. Even if Joe doesn't speak a lick of Korean, normally K-Wife is pretty good with English so they communicate well.
2. 99/100 they have been in a relationship prior to marriage, this isn't a visa/economic marriage.
3. Most importantly, the numbers just aren't there, you've probably got a couple 100 whities getting F2s each year, compared to tens of thousands... |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
Does the Canadian government speak in terms of "approving" inter-racial marriages? |
Does the Korean government have the authority to approve/deny inter-racial marriages? I really doubt that any of the people here who are married to Koreans, wrote to the government asking for permission. Sounds more like a bad English interpretation.
To get the F-2 or F-5 visa yes. But not to get married. It sounds more likely they are talking about putting a language requirement for the above visas.
I mean, there are lots of people here who've talked about their marriages and not once, did they ever mention having to get approval from the government for their marriage, even though it was inter-racial. |
And yet now the Korean government is talking in terms of "approving" marriages.
That's not the main point anyway. The point is that you tried to say that the Korean government implementing a language requirement to approve inter-racial marriages is the same as the Canadian government's language ability requirement for citizenship. |
No, I never said any such thing. That was what you assumed. I was responding to eIn07912's post. S/he stated that the language should not be forced "upon them as a criteria for successful immigration" and that a more tolerant country would not do this
I merely pointed out that in Canada which is a pretty tolerant country that it is a criteria for citizenship (which would seem to be the ultimate goal of successful immigration). |
Well, I am not the only one that read it that way. But, fair enough, in the context of a response to eIn's post, I can see where you are coming from.
I still find it uncomfortable that the Korean government is speaking in terms of "approving" inter-racial marriages. If this is not what they really meant, then they should have had someone else explain their policy.
Re: thrylos
I have an F2 and a Korean language test would be a bit of a pain for me to go through, BUT I could see the argument for it as well.
However, like I said above, for marriage visas (short of citizenship) I think the something more along the lines of a language compatibility test would be more fair. My wife and I communicate in English. If it's good enough for us, it should be good enough for the Korean government.
It is a good thing that the Korean government has recognized that there is a problem here re: the treatment of (primarily) foreign (ie: southeast Asian) brides. They are (I hope) trying to do something about it. The sad thing is that they have a history of either insincere solutions that they never plan on carrying out or ham-fisted approaches that do more harm than good.
Anyway, if they really want to make changes they should forget about language and require Korean men to undergo sensitivity training prior to marrying foreign nationals. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| thrylos wrote: |
| you're still being guaranteed by your Korean spouse and they'll get into doo-doo if you screw anything up. |
How will they be in trouble? |
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Korean LaoWei
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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My area has a alot of the mail order brides that this is obviously aimed at. this seems like an extesion of an already present policy to suppress thier original culture. often the bride learns Korean while the husband cant speak a word of thier wifes language. The husbands also refuse to eat anything but Korean food. I have also run into a few whose husbands refuse to allow thier wifes to teach thier children thier original language or even speak it around the children. This last one always seemed particularly vicious to me as it would effectivly cut the child off from half of thier heritage and family.
Could you even imagine forbidding your Korean spouse from speaking her native language around the kids. they wouldnt even be able to talk to thier grandparents. And Then there would be the no Korean food thing. |
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Forever
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| eIn07912 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| �Its function is to lower discriminatory barriers against foreign brides by providing job or educational programmes,� |
This much is true. However, the test of a more tolerant nation would be to allow the foreign brides to recognize speaking the native language would be greatly beneficial to themselves and their family, but allow them the choice as to learn it or not. Not force it upon them as a criteria for successful immigration. |
Indeed. What a terrible country. All tolerant nations like Canada for example...oh wait now.
http://www.americanlaw.com/cdncitnat.html
Looks like speaking one of Canada's official languages is a requirement for citizenship.
And the article does say that they will be teaching "foreign brides" Korean...presumably they are already married and have immigrated to the country. |
There's a massive difference between citizenship and apporving a marriage visa. |
Thats what I was wondering...?
Is this just a NEW prerequisite to getting a visa to stay here or citizenship?
or
does the Korean government actually think they can legally stop a person from getting married to a foreigner whose Korean level isn't to a certain level.
I have never heard of any government STOPPING a marriage before - simply because one person in the marriage couldn't speak a certain language well enough. |
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mayorgc
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Now that I think about it, it's surprising that this legislation wasn't aimed at foreign men marrying korean ladies. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
Does the Canadian government speak in terms of "approving" inter-racial marriages? |
Does the Korean government have the authority to approve/deny inter-racial marriages? I really doubt that any of the people here who are married to Koreans, wrote to the government asking for permission. Sounds more like a bad English interpretation.
To get the F-2 or F-5 visa yes. But not to get married. It sounds more likely they are talking about putting a language requirement for the above visas.
I mean, there are lots of people here who've talked about their marriages and not once, did they ever mention having to get approval from the government for their marriage, even though it was inter-racial. |
And yet now the Korean government is talking in terms of "approving" marriages.
That's not the main point anyway. The point is that you tried to say that the Korean government implementing a language requirement to approve inter-racial marriages is the same as the Canadian government's language ability requirement for citizenship. |
Once again, this is coming from an incredibly tiny story without any source. We have no idea if this is a bad translation of a korean article or what. Very likely its talking about F2 visa requirements not marriage approvals. |
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jindodog
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: not seoul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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This is from the UK immigration website:
Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said:
"Forced marriage leads to victims suffering years of physical and mental abuse and - in extreme cases - unlawful imprisonment and rape. It has no place in our society. That is why the Government is determined to do everything it can to stamp it out and to ensure that victims receive the help and support they need.
"That is why we are raising the age limit for visas, checking anyone entering into a marriage does so of their own free will, and demanding that those coming to the UK learn English."
What's the big deal? Yes you should commit to learning the language before you immigrate somewhere...it's most likely for you own good. get over it.
as for the rest, semantics. |
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