Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Mr. Pink]

[dominic]

it's not like i hate korea all the time, i have many korean friends, but they were born in canada or the US and other places other than korea. I just dont feel like im accomplishing anything here with my life, especially since i have a degree in business and i havent used it (i came here right after graducation). im a big guy, so i get stared at more than other foreigners maybe. I dont regret coming to asia and living here for a while, it was a great experience and ive studied taekwondo from white belt to 2nd degree black and im still doing it. I want a dog and a house and grass and to live in a neighborhood where it doesnt take the whole day on a subway to go shopping. i dont want my kids to grow up in korea when i have some if i have some, and i miss my church (churches are strange here and so far away) and i miss my family and i want to have a living room and wake up in the morning breath air that's not polluted. I showed my friends a picture of nova scotia and seoul side by side, and the sky difference is unbelievable. im tird of waking up in my bedroom and my living at the same time ya know? I dont know how long u have been here or if u work in a hagwon because i dont know anything about u really, but ill be lucky if i last 4 more months at my current school. my boss is timing us now, watching us through the cameras to see how long it takes us to get from the staff room to the classroom, and he's making the kids bow to us at the start of each class like we are korean teachers, yes this is respect i guess, but not convinced it's such a great idea.

[captain kirk]

Lone wolves in studios in a circle now. Group howl!

[Homer]

Run Dominic...run...Utopia is awaiting...

Meaningfull career, fitting in...its all good dude.

I wish you all the best!

[sadsac]

When I began reading this thread, I believed it to be about the school system offering English classes to students, so as to eliminate hogwans. Instead it developed into a slanging match. Korea, good, bad or indifferent we are all here. Regarding the original thread, hogwans in Korea are like cockroaches, they will always survive because parents and even teachers are too disillusioned with the Korean education system. In the previous fiscal year Koreans' spent approx USD$985 million sending their children OS to be educated. That tells you something about their system. All the comments about Koreans wanting their children exposed to native speakers, I feel is very true. Koreans with their piss poor pronounciation and understanding of English are lousy at teaching it. This said, those that have lived and worked OS, do have a far greater comprehension level than the average Korean.

[fidel]

A little information on the Korean Public School system (well the school that I have been working at for the past year).
There is no 'system'...simple as that. I have been working at a Technical High School in Seoul (thank god I have a new high school position in Kangnam), and letme enlighten you on a few things that went on.

The Korean English teachers, whilst usually pleasant people, were terrible teachers and could barely form a grammatically correct sentence in English. One teacher, shall we call her Mrs X was the laziest teacher I have ever come across. Her lesson plan consisted of a tape of ambient sounds that she would play as background music while she muttered quietly to herself. Meanwhile her students would be..
Option A Sleeping.
Option B Walking out of the class.
Option C Talking on their mobiles.

This happened every class.

If I took a walk down the corridor, glancing into classes as I went, I would see out of a class of 35, may be 15 sleeping, 15 lolling on the desk and only 4/5 paying attention. The Korean teachers at this school did not give a toss and had jobs for life, many had been at the same school for 25 years or more. They had long ago lost their zeal for teaching.

This year I had to Proctor the graduating exams for the third grade and this is what I saw.

Students were given copies of the actual exams 4 weeks before test day. They were 80% multichoice and the rest written answers. Because more than half of these students didn't even bother to memorise the answers, on test day they also put on the board the answers to the short answers and some of the more difficult multichoice questions. Still only 30% PASSED. They changed the rest to correct answers so they could graduate.

Now I know this is an extreme example in Korea, but by no means unique.
I know that teachers rarely get fired and are guaranteed jobs for life. This allows complacency to set in, followed by boredom and chased by laziness.

To say that the government is trying to 'shut down the Hogwan system' using the methods stated by Dominic is eminently laughable.
Why would the GOVERNMENT want to shut down a system that employees hundreds of thousands of jobs, stimulates spending and saves them from overhauling the state 'system'.

Just think in your typical hogwan you have
-teachers (usually Korean however there are several thousand foreigners)
-office staff
-bus drivers
-cleaners

Closely connected are the
-accountants
-lawyers
-real estate agents
-food services
-regulatory sevices
-stationary suppliers
-publishers

Just to name a few. It's a massive industry and it serves no-ones interests to 'close it down'.

[FUBAR]

That is something I have always wondered about. How much of the economy is driven by the hogwons? And I came the exact conclusion that you did.

In order for the government to take out the hogwons, the government would need to have a pretty good idea how to develop another industry in order to offset the loss of this major industy in their economy.

I think these after school classes are aimed at the students who can't afford to attend hogwons or private classes. There is a huge gap being created by the haves and have nots in the society. The government doesn't want to close the door on the children from the lower class families. That is a main reason for these classes. The government wants to kill private classes.

[just because]

I agree with the above sentiments(I wasn't aware that the exam answers were given out though) that the school system here is screwed. It is all score based and whatever score you get thats what you are. Its ridiculous how this works and other than the above school must put a load of pressure on the kids.
A case is the following about how the score system is screwed. This is an honest story about myself about what scores we got for our graduation and what happened.Based out of 100(anyone who comes from NSW in oz will understand).
Friend A:92 - Now is on unemployment for 2 years because got to university and become a druggo basically.
Myself : 73 - Not too bad, graduated uni and had a good position but came here to travel.
Friend B:39 - basically scraped into a countryside university. Worked his ass off as he picked a major he was good at, got top marks and now is making more than I ever could here. Very proud of him.

So basically in this situation the person with the highest score is unemployable and the person with the lowest is kicking butt. That is why the system is flawed here because whatever rank you get puts in a certain category for life.

BTW, Dominic, best wishes on future endevours man. I'm not one to be a troll so I hope you find a nice position that you search for. And if ESL comes calling head to Japan man.

[Alex Buffa]

I think you guys are missing an important point. I've noticed that smart people will always seem to end up doing well no matter what they got in school. They see things and start their own projects that tend to succeed because they are smart enough to make it work.

Just a though

[Ilsanman]

I don't fear for my job one bit.

The english they teach in public schools here is a joke. It's pretty much all grammar, and despite that, many kids still can't string together a grammatically correct sentence. They need conversation classes, and other practical english. If a majority of Korean school teachers became proficient enough at english to teach proper conversation classes, then I might fear for my job.

[Saxiif]

[Mr. Pink]

[Gord]

[panthermodern]

The real bad news will be when the Koreans adopt the new "five day" work week.

This will cause even more demand for Saturday classes.

Espcially for kids ...

Now, we all know that no one is foced to sign a contract with Saturday classes, but, hey with all the "monkey business" that occurs in Korea ...


The school classes will only increase the demand for outside classes, for, if the classes are actually sucessful, all students will have an equal level of English fluency and thus there will be no "advantage" in having the "standard" level of English.

For those new to Korea; Korea is all about gaining "advantage" or rather precieved advantage over everone else. It is sort of a stupid game of "false" achievement for example: If all kids study English 2 hours a day, a kid studying for 4 hours a day must be twice as skilled

Actual levels of fluencey are totally unimportant, as are also the concepts of retention and progress, it all boils down to the raw numbers ...

... Hey, this is a simplifed view of the Korean reality ... I did not say I agree.

Parents will be even more interested in extra English Education because English instruction will have become more universal. Besides, aren't kids learning English in school already?

Exactly ... it doesn't matter the more education in English there is the more education will be required for all parents wish thier children to be above the status quo ... regardless of actual ablility.

More is better.

[just because]

I agree with that. the reason is that Korean society is just made of up rank and numbers which doesn't really measure true ability.