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kimchi girl
Joined: 17 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:13 am Post subject: wouldn't it be better to leave them in France? |
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http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/01/07/2010010700820.html
So they want their books back. And I understand that. But this is a very prideful country that is seeking to promote itself to the world.
If they get the books back Koreans may go see them and so I suppose there's some money to be made. But if they leave them in France non-Koreans will actually see them and potentially increase interest in Korea as well as 'promote' Korea. No foreigner is going to come to Korea to see the books (not that anyone is going to France to see them either), but on pure foot traffic etc, it seems to me the move best inline with the nation's interest would be to leave them in France. |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:22 am Post subject: |
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This is a growing trend for many nations as they start to assert their national identity.
China is also doing this as they try to reclaim artifacts taken from China during various periods of its history.
One episode that comes to mind is when China tried to reclaim a group of statuettes that were being sold by the estate of the late Yves St. Laurent.
Here is a video about the row;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhOECgbwYk |
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kimchi girl
Joined: 17 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
This is a growing trend for many nations as they start to assert their national identity.
China is also doing this as they try to reclaim artifacts taken from China during various periods of its history.
One episode that comes to mind is when China tried to reclaim a group of statuettes that were being sold by the estate of the late Yves St. Laurent.
Here is a video about the row;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhOECgbwYk |
Yep, I'm familiar with the opium wars looting of various chinese artefacts. I was just surprised by this move since as a person who sees the daily headlines in the Korean papers (in both languages) boosting for Korea's rise in the world, I would think it would be a good move to leave them in France. |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| As one who helped repatriate a looted treasure to Korea (a flag taken by the US in 1871), I believe France should give the books back unconditionally; they do not belong to France. Just like the flag, and other objects, the books were stolen from Korea. In both cases, Korea was not at war with either country and both countries trespassed into Korean sovereign territory. In the case of France, the diplomat (Bellonet) who ordered the military incursion had overstepped his authority and was later severely chastised by his government; Bellonet was soon after recalled home. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| I wonder if Korea will apologise for the Catholic missionaries they killed that prompted the invasion and subsequent looting. Meh, who cares, send the books to Pyongyang! |
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tfunk
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| What are the books about? I can't see them as being tourist attractions unless they are interesting in some way. |
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kimchi girl
Joined: 17 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| bluelake wrote: |
| As one who helped repatriate a looted treasure to Korea (a flag taken by the US in 1871), I believe France should give the books back unconditionally; they do not belong to France. Just like the flag, and other objects, the books were stolen from Korea. In both cases, Korea was not at war with either country and both countries trespassed into Korean sovereign territory. In the case of France, the diplomat (Bellonet) who ordered the military incursion had overstepped his authority and was later severely chastised by his government; Bellonet was soon after recalled home. |
For the record, I wasn't asking whether france should give it back. Nor was I asking why some in Korea might want it back.
Only saying/asking that it probably gets more international viewers and raises the profile if it stays in France, and as a nation trying to build it's international profile the books would be best left there, perhaps with some sort of official Korean description. |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| tfunk wrote: |
| What are the books about? I can't see them as being tourist attractions unless they are interesting in some way. |
This is probably the simplest explanation:
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| Uigwe is a collection of royal protocols of the Korean Joseon Dynasty (1392 - 1910) which records and prescribes through text and stylized illustration the important ceremonies and rites of the royal family.[1] Whenever a national ceremony or banquet directed by the government occurred, a temporary office called Dogam (都監) was established and took charge of the event. After the event was finished, the office transformed into an office Uigwecheong and compiled a book regarding the event for future similar events.[2][3] It has been designated as one of the UNESCO's Memory of the World.[4] Most of surviving uigwe are kept at Kyujanggak and Jangseogak libraries (the former Royal Libraries), and Biblioth�que nationale de France. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uigwe |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi girl wrote: |
For the record, I wasn't asking whether france should give it back. Nor was I asking why some in Korea might want it back.
Only saying/asking that it probably gets more international viewers and raises the profile if it stays in France, and as a nation trying to build it's international profile the books would be best left there, perhaps with some sort of official Korean description. |
The answer is simple: the records were stolen and Korea wants them back. They have a lot more meaning to the people of Korea than they would to the people of France (most of the latter probably don't know they exist, or even what they are about). |
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kimchi girl
Joined: 17 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Bluelake, are you Korean?
As I said, I am NOT asking why they want them back, but instead suggesting they might be better used as a means of reaching out to people around the world since they would have a much wider audience in France than in Korea. |
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Hyeon Een
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi girl wrote: |
Bluelake, are you Korean?
As I said, I am NOT asking why they want them back, but instead suggesting they might be better used as a means of reaching out to people around the world since they would have a much wider audience in France than in Korea. |
No one else in the world cares about the books. No one in France apart from 2 French scholars interested in Korea and Korean tourists care.
France is not going to promote these books and thus draw attention to Korea. They aren't going to promote them because they are inherently DULL to anyone who isn't interested in Korean court protocol. Which excludes almost everyone in the world.
They will not draw tourists to Korea. They simply aren't that kind of artifact. They should put an exhibition in the Louvre of Racing Girls instead, that'd get people interested in Korea quick-sharp.
In contrast, there are hundreds of scholars in Korea who'd like to take a look at the book. And I bet upon their return a few thousand Koreans would come to check them out at a museum as well. They have 0 international appeal, but a little bit of appeal to Koreans. So they are best off here.
Also, I think your 50" LED TV would be much more useful in my house than yours  |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi girl wrote: |
Bluelake, are you Korean?
As I said, I am NOT asking why they want them back, but instead suggesting they might be better used as a means of reaching out to people around the world since they would have a much wider audience in France than in Korea. |
are you? Do you have any actual point to make or are you just going to go to the knee jerk, "anyone who disagrees with me and supports korea at all must be a korean" position? and even if he was, would it matter? Does it somehow magically make you "win"?
If Korea wants to loan them out to museums that should be their choice. The books should be returned to their control and then they can display them wherever they please. It would be the same with anything stolen from any country. |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi girl wrote: |
Bluelake, are you Korean?
As I said, I am NOT asking why they want them back, but instead suggesting they might be better used as a means of reaching out to people around the world since they would have a much wider audience in France than in Korea. |
Does someone have to be Korean to care about what's right? I would think the same way if the shoe was on the other foot and Korea had a national treasure of another country. For the record, I am from the States, but I've lived in Korea for almost twenty-one years.
The books mean nothing to most people outside of Korea and they do no good where they are now. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:32 am Post subject: |
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No one else in the world cares about the books. No one in France apart from 2 French scholars interested in Korea and Korean tourists care.
France is not going to promote these books and thus draw attention to Korea. They aren't going to promote them because they are inherently DULL to anyone who isn't interested in Korean court protocol. Which excludes almost everyone in the world.
They will not draw tourists to Korea. They simply aren't that kind of artifact. They should put an exhibition in the Louvre of Racing Girls instead, that'd get people interested in Korea quick-sharp.
In contrast, there are hundreds of scholars in Korea who'd like to take a look at the book. And I bet upon their return a few thousand Koreans would come to check them out at a museum as well. They have 0 international appeal, but a little bit of appeal to Koreans. So they are best off here.
Also, I think your 50" LED TV would be much more useful in my house than yours |
Bang on....once again.
This is completely normal. They aim here is not to have these books promote Korea in some private collection in France. The aim is to have what is considered by Koreans valuable pieces of their history back where they belong.
Why raise the questions at all kimchi girl? If you agree the books belong in Korea then your thread may have had a more apt title like: Korea trying to recover national property taken by foreign power.... |
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exit86
Joined: 17 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: |
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I think the issue would be more poignant if it were actually the Korean government and/or an official branch of the K. govt, as opposed to
one of many "civic groups" here in Korea.
I think if the K. govt. made a formal request/proposal for their return, something would more likely be done in Korea's favor.
Might the French govt. be declining the civic group's request so as not to set a precedent of handing over such valuable historical items to any group claiming to be working for all Koreans? |
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