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Obama's Bait and Switch
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visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:24 am Post subject:

mithridates wrote:

Kuros wrote:

mithridates wrote:

Rusty Shackleford wrote:

I would be interested to know how many posters on this board still support the man. Say "aye!" if you still support him.

Aye.

Okay, I'll start on why Obama is a bad President and has violated beliefs that are not threatened by political expediency.

He straight-up lied to the American people about stopping torture (Bagram).

Your move.

One more thing before your move is over: what's the alternative? Republican, another Democrat, third party? I'm not interested in hearing about who is a bad president if there is no better (and realistic) alternative. In addition to the bad president bit I'd also like to know if you consider him irreparably set in his ways (incurable), or whether in your opinion bad president can change to good president in the next year or two or seven.

Saying there's no alternative is a cop out. Someone like Ron Paul would've been a thousand times better. Obama is actually panning out to be the worst president ever, mainly because he's actually gained the trust of the nation. Bush was the worst, but Obama is expanding most of what made Bush so bad, while saying he's going to do the opposite.

Obama just keeps lying, and people keep believing it. It can't go on forever though. Hopefully the whole two party charade will just implode when it loses all credibility and people finally understand what a sick joke the system is. We need someone like Ron Paul who is an opponent of the Federal Reserve bank cartel (the real government, which has more power than even congress at this point).

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:20 pm Post subject:

Fox wrote:

Why should judgment be withheld simply because he has 3 more years on the job? Imagine applying that philosophy to any other position. "Well, yes, Bob's done a terrible job as a doctor,...

Of course he is. But, that doesn't change the fact that he's correct.

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

So, would we be better off today under McCain? What policies of his would have worked out better, given the real world circumstances of last winter at this time?

This is the kind of attitude that has lead to Americans being screwed by their politicians in the first place...

I think the doctor analogy is horrible. I think of a president more in terms of a spouse in an arranged marriage. It's a commited relationship over an extended period of time. Some things annoy and some things please. It's the quality of the overall relationship that matters, not decisions on individual issues. Is the guy heading in the right direction on issues that matter to me? I'm not so hung up on getting exactly what I want--I'm too old to fall for that trap. It never happens.

I don't believe the OP is correct and don't pay much attention to his opinion, just as I don't pay any attention to a knee-jerk anti-American. No matter what the US does can be correct because it is the US; Obama can't be correct because he's Obama. This thread isn't about a specific policy Obama has adopted, on which anyone can disagree and be correct. But if you start from the premise that Obama is always wrong, then overall, he's always going to be wrong no matter what he does. Obviously. So phooey on those people who think like that.

I don't agree that the American people have been screwed by the politicians. If we've been screwed by anyone, it was by ourselves. I don't separate the government from the people very much. We have periodic elections and can throw the bums out anytime. If we don't, it's our own fault. We've had some mighty poor leadership, but that doesn't mean we had to follow it. Our democratic republic is an experiment in self-government. We the people are responsible if we have dropped the ball. I'm not very patient with anti-government types--they are far too interested in self-abuse for my taste.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:30 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I don't separate the government from the people very much.

Do you apply this around the world?

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Fox wrote:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

So, would we be better off today under McCain? What policies of his would have worked out better, given the real world circumstances of last winter at this time?

This is the kind of attitude that has lead to Americans being screwed by their politicians in the first place...

Okay, if you'd rather use that analogy, I'm fine with it. I'll just say the same thing: if after a year my new spouse in an arranged marriage is annoying the Hell out of me, there are problems. Frankly, in such a situation, if there are still major problems after a year, I'd probably divorce rather than hope for things to get better.

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

It's the quality of the overall relationship that matters, not decisions on individual issues. Is the guy heading in the right direction on issues that matter to me? I'm not so hung up on getting exactly what I want--I'm too old to fall for that trap. It never happens.

I agree with this Ya-ta, which is why my opinion of the guy has fallen so low. He's not heading in the right direction on the issues that matter to me. I felt Obama was the best candidate out of Obama, McCain, and Clinton because he was the most likely to go in the direction I wanted, but he hasn't. Financial reform, health care, gay discrimination, current wars, homeland security: all matters he's gone in almost the exact opposite direction I wanted. And (excepting, arguably, gay discrimination) unlike issues like abortion -- which polarize the nation but affect very few -- these are issues that affect us profoundly at a national level. He's failing on the big stuff. He's not only not doing exactly what I want, he's not even doing remotely what I want.

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

I don't believe the OP is correct and don't pay much attention to his opinion, just as I don't pay any attention to a knee-jerk anti-American. No matter what the US does can be correct because it is the US; Obama can't be correct because he's Obama. This thread isn't about a specific policy Obama has adopted, on which anyone can disagree and be correct. But if you start from the premise that Obama is always wrong, then overall, he's always going to be wrong no matter what he does. Obviously. So phooey on those people who think like that.

You're correct; pkang comports himself as a rank and file Republican, and he'd be looking for something to complain about no matter what. But I'm not, and I still find far more to dislike than to like so far. So, again, he's right, even if he's right for the wrong reasons.

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

I don't agree that the American people have been screwed by the politicians. If we've been screwed by anyone, it was by ourselves. I don't separate the government from the people very much. We have periodic elections and can throw the bums out anytime. If we don't, it's our own fault. We've had some mighty poor leadership, but that doesn't mean we had to follow it. Our democratic republic is an experiment in self-government. We the people are responsible if we have dropped the ball. I'm not very patient with anti-government types--they are far too interested in self-abuse for my taste.

You know I agree with this. That's exactly why I don't like this, "It's only been a year, let's not judge Obama too harshly yet," attitude. No, let's judge him harshly. Let's start judging all our politicians harshly. Let's make it clear to them: turn this around, now, or you're out of office next term no matter how much you spend advertising. That's what America needs to do.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:46 pm Post subject:

Quote:

if there are still major problems after a year, I'd probably divorce rather than hope for things to get better.

Ah, the Elizabeth Taylor approach to marriage, I see. Wink

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:56 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

if there are still major problems after a year, I'd probably divorce rather than hope for things to get better.

Ah, the Elizabeth Taylor approach to marriage, I see. Wink

Well, with an arranged marriage, certainly yes.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:25 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Is the guy heading in the right direction on issues that matter to me? I'm not so hung up on getting exactly what I want--I'm too old to fall for that trap. It never happens.

I absolutely hate the way you put this; what I would say is this:

I'm hung up on getting something near what the country needs -- I'm too young to expect less. It has to happen.

Ya-Ta Boy wrote:

There's truth to this. The American people aren't powerless. But you have to admit the system has been better at representing the people in the past.

But it also doesn't help that the American public is so polarized.

pkang0202

Joined: 09 Mar 2007

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:28 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Fox wrote:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

So, would we be better off today under McCain? What policies of his would have worked out better, given the real world circumstances of last winter at this time?

This is the kind of attitude that has lead to Americans being screwed by their politicians in the first place...

I am simply asking Obama supporters why they aren't more vocal about him going back on his promises.

I'm not sugar coating the facts. I'm not saying the Republicans can do better. I'm not saying any of that.

I am purely staying cases where Obama has promised one thing, and done the opposite. Where he has criticized something, only to do it himself.

The reason I am picking on Obama is because he made it BLATANTLY clear to anyone and everyone that he was a candidate for change. That he was going to transform Washington. That he was going to usher in a new era of politics. That he was going to do things differently.

All the swing voters ate it up and voted for him. All the Democrats taht voted for Obama instead of Hilary in the Primaries ate it up and believed in him.

Now, I'm simply asking, why are those people outraged? Remember when Bush Senior said, "Read my lips, no new taxes" and he goes and raises taxes while he was in Office?

bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:42 am Post subject:

pkang0202 wrote:

Every single president has promised change and broken his promises. I am astounded that people are always surprised when it happens yet once again. Why is this even news?

Is anyone on here courageous enough to admit that he actually believed that BO would really make change and keep his promises?

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