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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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shinramyun
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
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 Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
| If Europe is such a horrid place then why do Koreans flock their in 10s of thousands every summer? |
For vacation..........? |
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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I've heard idiotic comments from people back home about Korea. People confuse it with North Korea, Vietnam, and Japan. Most people don't know a single thing about Korea. Not that there's much reason for people from Pittsburgh to know about South Korea, but that's something to think about before jumping on Koreans for being ignorant about our home countries.
That said, there is no shortage of ridiculous crap out there about our countries. This post has some examples: blackface skit in elementary school, "cultural tips" from teachers' guides, and ridiculous portrayls of foreign kids:
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2009/10/beware-of-cultural-tips.html
A three-dollar bill on display at a folk museum: http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/10/koreans-distorting-american-currency.html
A textbook explaining that waving means "bye" to Americans, not hello: http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/09/another-insightful-passage-from-3rd.html
The failed attempt at a "Korea, Sparkling" widget, which portrayed foreigners as buffoons:
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2009/02/korea-sparkling-widget-neither.html
And from a festival in Hampyeong county, cowboys and camels sharing a watering hole in the Wild West:
http://fal-fehr.blogspot.com/2009/05/enormous-bugs-and-rubber-horses.html |
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yingwenlaoshi
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
Not too surprising. My adult co-teachers have TOLD me that in America/Canada, teachers work 4 hours a day 6 months a year and start at $100,000. I explained to them that elementary teachers (can't speak for others) in Canada work waaaaaaaay longer hours than in Korea, like 7am-7pm for the first few years and still 8 hours after, and only have one extended break (2 months) while starting at peanuts. Yes, it gets higher, but more like max 80-90k after 15 years.
Koreans tend to learn things in an us vs them framework. Koreans work hard, therefore THEY work less. Korean food is spicy, therefore, THEIR food isn't spicy. And so on. It's a zero-sum culture. If you like Japan it means you like Korea less. If you like Indian food *this* much, then you like Korean food *this* much less. Hence many Koreans' fear of expressing any fondness for anything not Korean. It would mean they love their homeland less, whereas in Western culture we don't think enjoying a trip to Paris means you necessarily like your hometown less. You can like two things at once for different reasons.
Gee, I have this whole place figured out, don't I? |
korean culture, people and food are all very good.
carry on |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| How many Korean books, articles, etc. are there out there or on the Internet that even slightly disagree with the notion that Korea is and has always been the centre of the Universe, that Japan is evil, that Europeans are only slightly less evil, that China is only slightly less evil than that, etc., etc., etc...??? It's actually amazing just how selectively oblivious you are! |
For someone arguing about selectivity and being oblivious.....
There is misinformation and ignorance everywhere.
I think the OP was going more for the 'chuckle' side of things rather than the 'basher' side of things.
Apparently the guns thing is pretty big. Koreans seem to have this picture of America as some sort of gangland.
That and we all eat beef all the time. Hamburgers for breakfast. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
| Koreans encompass the worst of both worlds when it comes to cultural ignorance: 1) they are extremely knowledgeable about their own country, history, society and so forth, 2) they are incredibly naive and ignorant about the surrounding world. |
Only about some things. I teach university students and adults, and am always amazed at how little they know about the Korean War, North Korea, and Lee Syngman, South Korea's first president. In fact, while I don't remember the statistic, it was in the newspaper that a huge number of 20-something Koreans were ignorant about the Korean War. |
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The Goalie
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Location: Chungcheongnamdo
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:10 am Post subject: Re: Just what are they taught about foreigners in school? |
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| willy5 wrote: |
| Quote: |
Developed country
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Developed countries are shown in blue (According to the IMF, as of 2008).The term developed country is used to describe countries that have a high level of development according to some criteria. Which criteria, and which countries are classified as being developed, is a contentious issue and is surrounded by fierce debate. Economic criteria have tended to dominate discussions. One such criterion is income per capita; countries with high gross domestic product (GDP) per capita would thus be described as developed countries. Another economic criterion is industrialization; countries in which the tertiary and quaternary sectors of industry dominate would thus be described as developed. More recently another measure, the Human Development Index, which combines with an economic measure, national income, with other measures, indices for life expectancy and education has become prominent. This criterion would define developed countries as those with a very high (HDI) rating. However, many anomalies exist when determining "developed" status by whichever measure is used.
Countries not fitting such definitions are classified as developing countries.
Contents [hide]
1 Similar terms
2 Definition
3 Human Development Index
4 Other lists of Developed Countries
4.1 IMF advanced economies
4.2 Development Assistance Committee members
4.3 High-income OECD members
4.4 World Bank high-income economies
4.5 Quality-of-life survey
5 Summary
6 See also
7 References
8 External links
[edit] Similar terms
Terms similar to developed country include advanced country, industrialized country, more developed country (MDC), more economically developed country (MEDC), Global North country, first world country, and post-industrial country. The term industrialized country may be somewhat ambiguous, as industrialization is an ongoing process that is hard to define. The term MEDC is one used by modern geographers to specifically describe the status of the countries referred to: more economically developed. The first industrialised country was England, followed by Belgium (Wallonia), Germany, United States, France, the remainder of the United Kingdom and other Western European countries. According to economists such as Jeffrey Sachs, however, the current divide between the developed and developing world is largely a phenomenon of the 20th century.[1]
[edit] Definition
Kofi Annan, former Secretary General of the United Nations, defined a developed country as follows. " A developed country is one that allows all its citizens to enjoy a free and healthy life in a safe environment."[2] But according to the United Nations Statistics Division,
There is no established convention for the designation of "developed" and "developing" countries or areas in the United Nations system.[3]
And it notes that
The designations "developed" and developing" are intended for statistical convenience and do not necessarily express a judgement about the stage reached by a particular country or area in the development process.[4]
The UN also notes
In common practice, Japan in Asia, Canada and the United States in northern America, Australia and New Zealand in Oceania, and Europe are considered "developed" regions or areas. In international trade statistics, the Southern African Customs Union is also treated as a developed region and Israel as a developed country; countries emerging from the former Yugoslavia are treated as developing countries; and countries of eastern Europe and of the Commonwealth of Independent States (code 172) in Europe are not included under either developed or developing regions.[3]
According to the classification from IMF before April 2004, all the countries of Eastern Europe (including Central European countries which still belongs to "Eastern Europe Group" in the UN institutions) as well as the former Soviet Union (U.S.S.R.) countries in Central Asia (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan) and Mongolia, were not included under either developed or developing regions, but rather were referred to as "countries in transition"; however they are now widely regarded (in the international reports) as "developing countries". In the 21st century, the original Four Asian Tigers which are the[5] regions (Hong Kong), and the countries [5][6] Taiwan, Singapore and[5][6] South Korea[5][6][7][8][5][6]) are considered "developed" region or areas, along with Cyprus,[6] Israel,[6] and Slovenia,[6] considered "newly developed countries".
[edit] Human Development Index
World map indicating the Human Development Index (based on 2007 data, published on October 5, 2009)[citation needed] 0.950 and Over
0.900�0.949
0.850�0.899
0.800�0.849
0.750�0.799 0.700�0.749
0.650�0.699
0.600�0.649
0.550�0.599
0.500�0.549 0.450�0.499
0.400�0.449
0.350�0.399
under 0.350
not available
(Color-blind compliant map) For red-green color vision problems.Main articles: Human Development Index and List of countries by Human Development Index
The UN HDI is a statistical measure that gauges a country's level of human development. While there is a strong correlation between having a high HDI score and a prosperous economy, the UN points out that the HDI accounts for more than income or productivity. Unlike GDP per capita or per capita income, the HDI takes into account how income is turned "into education and health opportunities and therefore into higher levels of human development." A few examples are Italy and the United States. Despite a relatively large difference in GDP per capita, both countries rank roughly equal in term of overall human development.[9] Since 1980, Norway (2001-2006 and 2009), Japan (1990-91 and 1993), Canada (1992 and 1994-2000) and Iceland (2007-0 have had the highest HDI score. Countries with a score of over 0.800 are considered to have a "high" standard of human development. The top 38 countries have scores ranging from 0.902 in Malta to 0.971 in Norway.[10]
Many countries listed by IMF or[11] CIA as "advanced" (as of 2009), possess an HDI over 0.9 (as of 2007). Many countries[12] possessing an HDI of 0.9 and over (as of 2007), are also listed by IMF or CIA as "advanced" (as of 2009). Thus, many "advanced economies" (as of 2009) are characterized by an HDI score of 0.9 or higher (as of 2007).
The latest index was released on October 5, 2009 and covers the period up to 2007. The following are the 38 countries classified as possessing a "Very high human development" with an HDI at or above 0.900.[13]
Norway 0.971 (▬)
Australia 0.970 (▬)
Iceland 0.969 (▬)
Canada 0.966 (▬)
Ireland 0.965 (▬)
Netherlands 0.964 (▲ 1)
Sweden 0.963 (▼ 1)
France 0.961 (▲ 3)
Switzerland 0.960 (▬)
Japan 0.960 (▬)
Luxembourg 0.960 (▼ 3)
Finland 0.959 (▲ 1)
United States 0.956 (▼ 1)
Austria 0.955 (▲ 2)
Spain 0.955 (▬)
Denmark 0.955 (▼ 2)
Belgium 0.953 (▬)
Italy 0.951 (▲ 1)
Liechtenstein 0.951 (▼ 1)
New Zealand 0.950 (▬)
United Kingdom 0.947 (▬)
Germany 0.947 (▬)
Singapore 0.944 (▲ 1)
Hong Kong 0.944 (▼ 1)
Greece 0.942 (▬)
South Korea 0.937 (▬)
Spain 0.955 (▬)
Denmark 0.955 (▼ 2)
Belgium 0.953 (▬)
Italy 0.951 (▲ 1)
Liechtenstein 0.951 (▼ 1)
New Zealand 0.950 (▬)
United Kingdom 0.947 (▬)
Germany 0.947 (▬)
Singapore 0.944 (▲ 1)
Hong Kong 0.944 (▼ 1)
Greece 0.942 (▬)
South Korea 0.937 (▬) |
Goalie,
Before you say anything about Korea, you should study some hard facts. |
You're absolutely right to call me out on that. I have no idea what possessed me to imply that Korea is not a developed country. Actually, I have a good idea but it doesn't help my case much. I meant to contrast Korea's more recent development, along with the fact that there is less exposure to other cultures, to our own countries, which have been developed for much longer and have had a far greater exposure to other cultures. My stupidity should not, however, be misread as hatred for Korea. My head spins at the thought of how far Korea has come in the last half century and my statements were simply meant to emphasize this. The spinning of my head is accelerated by the people who come here and criticize the Korean people for not having attained the level of enlightenment that our own cultures have, indicating that this enlightenment has not been equally distributed among all the citizens of these countries. I didn't need your statistics and your shrill manner but I deserved them. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think it's all that cool to publish your students writing online here to shame him/her without permission. |
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Sadebugo1
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:00 am Post subject: Re: Just what are they taught about foreigners in school? |
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| Stalin84 wrote: |
That time of year again, I'm editing the school's English newspaper in its entirely. I usually enjoy doing this and tend to look for my favourite student's articles.
Every year though, its a pain to come across certain articles after being told that I'm not allowed to correct factual errors, only grammatical and spelling mistakes.
The highlight of this year's batch was an article about the increasing amount of foreigners in Korea. The author was a student who had been in my class for the entire year. She had also been present for the classes which I held after I returned from vacation in Canada that were solely about Canadian culture. I found, of all the classes I taught this year, the classes about Western Culture and Canada as compared to Korea turned out the best as they really got the student's talking. I learned stuff, they learned stuff, no one was offended and many were involved.
Here are some gems from her article:
"Foreigners do not know about cell phones. Korea has the best cell phones..." (huh?)
"Korea has the fastest internet in the world" (true) "and many foreigners don't know about the internet." (?!)
"In foreigner's home country everyone has a gun but in Korea there are no guns" (ugh, I take it she isn't referring to my Daisy "Red Rider", is she?)
"In Korea foreigners can experience nature and of our countryside. They can experience countryside people's kindness to all, foreign or native." (In context, this sounded like it was something we don't have in our own countries. In Canada we don't have any nature, thats a new one, folks).
"Foreigners really like the Korean language and see how it can express better and is more natural [sic] than their own language."
(This is all post revision, it was a grammatical mess before I got my pen in there).
...and it goes on. There are a few other things that stuck out, like how Korea has more public safety and security than other countries. She also made a point that Korea was a lot more convenient, which is somewhat true, but then took it further to say that we don't have any businesses in our home countries that have Customer Service desks that help customers nor do we have any businesses that are open for long hours (she cites 7-11 as an example, the irony!)
She also went on to say that foreigners in Korea work "short hours" and make "more money" than Koreans who work much longer.
There is an element of truth in some of these points but a lot of the time it isn't really worth noting. As a whole though, I'd be the first to throw this in the nationalistic garbage heap. Even my co-worker who was supervising the newspaper club was a little bit embarrassed about passing it to me first without reading it himself. He'll submit it for publishing but only after heavy revision.
The thing is, why would any kid in this day and age, anywhere, think this way about the world outside of their country? This is a high school student. I might not be as surprised if this had come from and elementary school student but this article comes from a second year student whom is preparing for a university career followed by being an English teacher (she speaks better than she writes, actually).
Just what are these kids taught in their classes about foreign cultures? Even in 2010, it still sounds like Korean high school students are being fed propaganda about the outside world.
Anyway, normally this wouldn't bother me so much but seeing as how I'm going to be leaving soon, I see these last few months as a time to reconcile myself with the things I don't like about Korea. All evidence seems to point in the direction of not being able to do so. As much as I like various aspects of life here, I don't think I'll ever be able to reconcile my worldview with a population that thinks so low of me as an individual simply because I wasn't born here. |
Do you work in North Korea or South Korea? Of course, I know the answer to this question but the brainwashing they receive in their respective societies is similar if not to the same extreme. And, don't feel bad if you can't "reconcile your worldview." It's not necessary to do so and probably better if you see Korea as it actually is.
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| As Michael Breen says, Korea is a country full of extremely bright adolescents. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
My 2 cents on this is that there are just as many ethnocentric/western-centric comments by some posters here. I've blamed it on Western education that by and large ignores the contributions of non-Westerners. For example, most Westerners don't even know that the numeric system they use was not invented by Europeans.
In the book Lost Discoveries, Teresi writes that the main reason for this massive cover-up was because Westerners were jealous (probably had a huge inferiority complex with Asia) and wanted to create the myth of white/European superiority. |
This really adds nothing to the discussion. After all, this discussion was never about who did what. Nor is it about racism.
And for the record, I have known at least since middle school that Hindu scholars created the number system that we use today. |
Really? I had thought the middle east! Ok, guess I was wrong. Ha ha. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Vacation in a horrid place. Is that not some kind of oxymoron?
The point I am getting at is that I am not sure a great many Koreans would share Komerican's views / personal insecurities about Europe. It seems to be one of the more clearly defined aims of most young Koreans to get to Europe at some point or another.
| shinramyun wrote: |
| stevieg4ever wrote: |
| If Europe is such a horrid place then why do Koreans flock their in 10s of thousands every summer? |
For vacation..........? |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
My 2 cents on this is that there are just as many ethnocentric/western-centric comments by some posters here. I've blamed it on Western education that by and large ignores the contributions of non-Westerners. For example, most Westerners don't even know that the numeric system they use was not invented by Europeans.
In the book Lost Discoveries, Teresi writes that the main reason for this massive cover-up was because Westerners were jealous (probably had a huge inferiority complex with Asia) and wanted to create the myth of white/European superiority. |
This really adds nothing to the discussion. After all, this discussion was never about who did what. Nor is it about racism.
And for the record, I have known at least since middle school that Hindu scholars created the number system that we use today. |
Really? I had thought the middle east! Ok, guess I was wrong. Ha ha. |
No, the Arabs acted as middle men in this case. They adopted the number system from India as well as Algebra. The Arabs did not invent that either. However, the Arabs do deserve credit for further advancing these inventions in their own culture. Also, if I am not mistaken, the appearance of the number system was slightly altered by the time that it reached the Europeans.
But of course, the Europeans already had a number system but just a very cumbersome one, Roman numerals. Also, before the dark ages, the Greeks had a form of Algebra but they had not developed its notation nearly to the extent that Indians had later on. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Not often I take issue with you Smee but I still think that there is a difference between the examples you have cited and some of the things listed by the op. Depending on your source there are anything upto 200 countries: would you know the difference between Burkina Faso and Senegal on a map say? The odd confusion is bound to happen here and there.
And as you remarked, there is still very little that distinguishes South Korea outright.
Funnily enough your cited examples are in much the same vain as what the op has listed. It probably goes without saying that there are countless other examples that could be put forward as well.
| Smee wrote: |
I've heard idiotic comments from people back home about Korea. People confuse it with North Korea, Vietnam, and Japan. Most people don't know a single thing about Korea. Not that there's much reason for people from Pittsburgh to know about South Korea, but that's something to think about before jumping on Koreans for being ignorant about our home countries.
That said, there is no shortage of ridiculous crap out there about our countries. This post has some examples: blackface skit in elementary school, "cultural tips" from teachers' guides, and ridiculous portrayls of foreign kids:
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2009/10/beware-of-cultural-tips.html
A three-dollar bill on display at a folk museum: http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/10/koreans-distorting-american-currency.html
A textbook explaining that waving means "bye" to Americans, not hello: http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/09/another-insightful-passage-from-3rd.html
The failed attempt at a "Korea, Sparkling" widget, which portrayed foreigners as buffoons:
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2009/02/korea-sparkling-widget-neither.html
And from a festival in Hampyeong county, cowboys and camels sharing a watering hole in the Wild West:
http://fal-fehr.blogspot.com/2009/05/enormous-bugs-and-rubber-horses.html |
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, that's true. On the one hand we can easily see what Koreans are learning about some foreigners and native English speakers through English-language materials. But I think to get a fuller picture you'd need to look at other subjects and at other media. I don't have any history or sociology books handy, though. |
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captain kirk
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Old Gil wrote: |
| As Michael Breen says, Korea is a country full of extremely bright adolescents. |
The latest Scientific American has an article about the Bosnian pyramids. And the Bosnian man who discovered them. Actually they aren't 12,000 year old pyramids BUT the Bosnian majority prefers to believe in them because they've been thru a hard time (the war) and to believe that makes Bosnia special. It reminds me of Korea. The proud nationalism and the chip on the shoulder/blinders on. It's 'Korea is for Koreans' and, as Koreans, we will believe what we want that makes us feel special, thank you. |
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