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Middle schoolers charged with kiddy porn
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:27 am    Post subject: Middle schoolers charged with kiddy porn Reply with quote

This case demonstrates, among other things, how nearly HALF of all sex offenders against minors are - other minors!

Middle school students charged in 'sexting' case

Police said Valparaiso boy, girl sent nude pictures to each other

VALPARAISO | Two Ben Franklin Middle School students who Valparaiso police said were caught using their cell phones to exchange nude pictures of each other -- a practice called sexual texting or "sexting" -- are facing criminal charges.

A 13-year-old Valparaiso girl and a 12-year-old Valparaiso boy were referred to juvenile probation on charges of possession of child pornography and child exploitation. In adult court, the charges would carry a maximum penalty of 11 years in prison, but prosecutors expect the case to be handled in the juvenile system.

"Something needs to be done, but we think dealing with them through the juvenile court system is appropriate, so as not to saddle them with (consequences) from the adult system," Porter County Prosecutor Brian Gensel said.

In the adult system, convicted offenders face not only prison time but also having to register as a sex offender.

The case against the Valparaiso students came to light when the girl's phone went off during class Jan. 21 and the teacher confiscated it. The teacher told police the girl asked to delete something from the phone before it was turned over to the administration, but that request was denied.

The teacher said the girl began crying, saying she would get in trouble because the boy had sent her a dirty picture.

An investigation revealed the boy sent the girl an explicit photo of himself Jan. 17 and asked her to use her cellular phone to send back a similar picture of herself, which she did, police said. Police further found out the girl showed the picture of the boy to one of her friends.

Deputy Prosecutor Cheryl Polarek said young people don't understand the ramifications of texting nude pictures or posting certain material on social networking sites like Facebook. She said a nude picture could end up being shared with half the school and could get in the hands of people who seek out child pornography.

Even though it is illegal to send or possess nude pictures of someone younger than 18, a national survey found 20 percent of teens have texted or posted online nude or semi-nude pictures of themselves.

Gensel, who belongs to the National District Attorneys Association, said the association's trade publication featured a column on sexting that highlighted Montgomery County, Ohio, Prosecutor Mathias Heck Jr.'s implementation of a "diversion program" for sexting cases.

Young people who enter the diversion program undergo education on appropriate sexual boundaries and related topics, complete community service and relinquish their cell phone for a period of time. If the program is successfully completed, the charges are dismissed or never filed.

Gensel agrees with Heck that there needs to be some "tempering" of prosecution so some foolish, consenting behavior doesn't have long-term ramifications on young people's lives. Gensel favors a system in which young people receive an explanation about how serious of a matter sexual texting is, and that there will be serious consequences if they continue doing it.

Valparaiso police Sgt. Michael Grennes said this case shows the need for parents to educate their children about what they can and can't do with their cellular phones or on their computers. He also recommends parents to follow through by monitoring their children's phone and computer use. He also said parents might want to consider whether their child really needs to own a phone.
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NovaKart



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad the prosecutors realize they shouldn't make these kids face serious charges but I think it's really stupid to even charge them with anything. Are they being charged with exploiting themselves? That's really stupid. Take a law that's meant to protect children and shame these children for doing something a lot of people do. I've let people take explicit photos of me on a cellphone. It's not really appropriate behaviour for a teenager but the parents should handle it, not the courts.
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The crime in this case is letting the government get involved at all.

There was no victim and no crime until the government jumped in.

Now, the two kids are the victims. The prosecutor and everyone else involved for the state are the criminals and they have abused and scarred the two kids.

The stupid teacher should have handed the phone back to the girl and let her delete the message.
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NovaKart



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely. If I were the teacher I think I would have contacted the parents. That's all, they should decide how to handle this. The state is taking a really puritan attitude in all this and using the excuse of protecting children.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kids have played doctor (you show me yours and I'll show you mine) for about ever. The only difference now is that electronics are involved which ups the chances for hysterics to get involved.

We've got a culture where half the people sexualize everything possible going up against the other half who think nothing at all should be sexual. A pox on both of them.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
The crime in this case is letting the government get involved at all.

There was no victim and no crime until the government jumped in.

Now, the two kids are the victims. The prosecutor and everyone else involved for the state are the criminals and they have abused and scarred the two kids.

The stupid teacher should have handed the phone back to the girl and let her delete the message.


I agree with ontheway. The individuals involved in this case should have used common sense and not applied existing laws needlessly, given their application harmed rather than helped. More importantly, though, these laws are in need of serious revision. Laws protecting children are reasonable in principle, but the laws in question need to be desiged in order to protect children. They should not be applicable against individuals who have not themselves harmed children, and they should not be applicable in cases where their application would harm children.

It's fine for rights to be principle oriented, but laws need to be goal oriented instead. They need a specific purpose, and they need to be judged by how they achieve that purpose. Cases like this prove the current laws, as written, are failures.
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pkang0202



Joined: 09 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever happened to telling the parents and letting family take care of it? Its now society's job to educate and punish children?
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Hater Depot



Joined: 29 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prosecutors should not be elected. The only metric the general public has with which to evaluate them is conviction rate. Given their incentives it's hardly surprising they grasp for marginal cases and occasionlly produce injustices.
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Mr. Pink



Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't the first story I've heard of this. IMO it is ridiculous that the police even got involved in the first place. I foresee the cops charging the wrong kid, and that kid's deep pocketed parents taking the issue all the way to the supreme court, where hopefully, the stupidity of this will come forth.
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my first grade teacher found a note I wrote to a girl saying that I wanted to hump her, she called my parents, I had to have a discussion with my parents about whether or not I knew what procreation was and why we don't say certain things at certain times and ages and that was that.

This story and the one about showering naked is really a sign of heavy handedness that will cause some serious mental unstability. As a parent I would be outraged at the school and the government, which they would probably try to turn on me somehow as it is. Old men texting nude photos of/to children = clearly wrong. Children texting nude photos of each other to each other = childhood curiosity and stupidity that can be corrected through discussion, and at worst through a loss of phone privileges or something.

If they think the current line of reasoning is going to work, then might as well break out the burkas and start separating schools.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have NO tolerance for kiddy porn! I don't care what the specifics are. These photos could get in the wrong hands where others might actually masturbate to them! Then who knows what might happen next.

I say try them as adults, lock them up for 11 years each, since that is all our too-lenient laws allow, and let them and any other perverts out there learn a lesson. I want my children safe!
Rolling Eyes
OK, OK. I am just playing devil's advocate.

Mr. Pink wrote:
This isn't the first story I've heard of this. IMO it is ridiculous that the police even got involved in the first place.

But seriously. Cases such as this are COMMON. I can post a hundred others. Yet of nine commenters so far on this thread, we all agree the law is ridiculous, so how is it that this situation exists? Are people on Dave's that unrepresentative of general attitudes, or are our lawmakers?

What's next? Shall we charge a kid caught masturbating with child sex abuse?
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
I have NO tolerance for kiddy porn! I don't care what the specifics are. These photos could get in the wrong hands where others might actually masturbate to them! Then who knows what might happen next.

I say try them as adults, lock them up for 11 years each, since that is all our too-lenient laws allow, and let them and any other perverts out there learn a lesson. I want my children safe!
Rolling Eyes
OK, OK. I am just playing devil's advocate.

Mr. Pink wrote:
This isn't the first story I've heard of this. IMO it is ridiculous that the police even got involved in the first place.

But seriously. Cases such as this are COMMON. I can post a hundred others. Yet of nine commenters so far on this thread, we all agree the law is ridiculous, so how is it that this situation exists? Are people on Dave's that unrepresentative of general attitudes, or are our lawmakers?

What's next? Shall we charge a kid caught masturbating with child sex abuse?


Well, it's not that any individuals can be blamed. It's a system. The teacher at that particular school may have a certain protocol that she's supposed to follow because policy was put in place after concerns came up, the prosecutor found a case, the media needed a good story, people are attracted to sensation, and a lot of the general public can't agree on this topic because of the fear of pedophilia, unfamiliarity about how to handle the new symptoms caused by rapid technological advancement, the sexualize everything vs punish the very hint of sexuality, overemphasis on raising children by the book.

4 options:

-Hold a demonstration

-Call your local representative back home

-Run for office on an anti-puritan platform

-Discuss it on Dave's, argue with anyone who disagrees until the thread goes into the triple digits or gets locked, and remain largely perplexed after it's all over
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ChopChaeJoe



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kind of gross. Tough call if it should be prosecuted. At that age I was playing strip poker with the locals, but we had the decency to do it in secret, not broadcast it via sattellite.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChopChaeJoe wrote:
Kind of gross. Tough call if it should be prosecuted. At that age I was playing strip poker with the locals, but we had the decency to do it in secret, not broadcast it via sattellite.


How is it a tough call whether a victimless crime should be prosecuted? If a law results in convictions in situations where no individual is harmed, and society collectively isn't harmed, then it's a bad law.

Taking a picture of a naked child should count as sexual abuse of the child in question under law. That's how child pornography should be handled. Under such a law, children who take pictures of themselves and show their friends would be guilty of nothing, while the state still retains the right to take action against actual child pornographers.

Note that under this system, possession of child pornography in and of itself would not be a crime. I envision the process going as follows:

1) Person x is discovered in possession of child pornography.
2) Person x is expected to account for where they got it.
3) If person x refuses to account for it, person x is assumed to be the photographer and tried accordingly.
4) If person x informs on their source, then the police are one step closer to catching the actual perpetrators of these crimes.

Criminalizing ownership of child pornography has very clearly not solved anything. We need laws that focus on apprehending the actual abusers (read: the individuals taking the pictures). Besides, consumers of child pornography seem much more to me like people suffering from a mental illness than clear-minded individuals commiting criminal acts. Some defect, whatever it is, creates a lust in them for children. If the worst they've done is looked at pictures, then honestly we should be helping them, not locking them up. If they've gone beyond that, then they're an actual danger and need to be incarcerated accordingly.
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChopChaeJoe wrote:
Kind of gross. Tough call if it should be prosecuted. At that age I was playing strip poker with the locals, but we had the decency to do it in secret, not broadcast it via sattellite.


Strip poker or broadcast over a satellite...hmm... Well, if you had a cellphone then, who knows what you might have done? Not only that, but who's to say that one of your strip poker buddies might not sneak a snapshot of you and send it via satellite?

You have to remember that some/many kids that age often don't think through the ramifications of what they are doing at the moment, or want to test their limits without recognizing the ultimate consequences. In this case I think the kids involved are going to be scared out of their pants to exhibit themselves by phone, no pun intended.
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