Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Gatsby]

Have you ever noticed how the blame game works in Korea?

If you complain, someone will turn the tables and blame you. It's often someone in some position of authority, no matter how minor. It's quite impressive how quick and skillful they can be at it; they seem to have had a lot of practice. I'm beginning to think this skill is a requirement for promotion in Korea.

This post got me thinking about it:

Senior wrote (in another thread):

[Senior]

Never criticize, condemn or complain. It will get you no where.

Except on Dave's of course.

[rkc76sf]

Maybe you should tell the principal "Everyone knows Korea is the worst ______."

[Gnawbert]

Maybe I've been lucky, but I haven't gotten much of the "Everyone knows that _____" as you described in my 2 years here. However, what I have gotten a lot of is: "As you know..."

"As you know, the air conditioner is make you sick."
"As you know, Ki Hyun has a special condition and cannot focus in class."
"As you know, gas is very expensive but internet is fast."

Maybe it's because they're trying to save my face, but most of the time I didn't know whatever it is they're about to inform me of following "As You Know..."

[Troglodyte]

[lifeinkorea]

Well, my theory on this is that since they are tribal and always answer to the person higher up, it makes sense to go along with everything because in the end the person higher up has more responsibility than you.

Regardless if you know better, the weight of the blame can banish you from the tribe (when stepping out of line). Since "everyone" can do better, it's wiser to follow what your superior commands you to do and they have the pressure of presenting the results as if they were major achievements instead of failures.

For example, the principal has no need or desire to talk with the NET. This is something that the head English teacher and co-teacher are responsible to take care of. It was amazing how my co-teacher would call regularly to the office about schedule issues and sometimes requests for material. However, when I asked him if I could go to a store to get supplies for the next class because we needed them soon, he would try at all costs to avoid contacting them. I suspect this is because he didn't want to give the impression to the office that he may not be prepared. He would tell me he didn't want to disturb them, yet he called them several times already and continued throughout the day.

Any input I tried to send to the principal would be swatted down. After insisting on a few issues, either the head English teacher would intervene and talk privately or the vice-principal would step in and make up excuses why certain things were impossible to do.

So, I just gave up trying to deal with improving a system that fails to recognize me. Instead, I keep as much distance from the higher ups and avoid communicating with them. It seems to work better now. Now my co-teacher (different one but behaves the same) will instead use my ideas because she wants to see me involved. Before, when I tried to directly communicate with the principal I was knocked down metaphorically.

Moral of the story is that climbing the ladder of success is less important here in Korea than maintaining order until you are promoted to a position where you can implement your ideas. In the US, it's very different. Companies are not tribal in the sense they hire independent contractors and use the best of those people's abilities to exploit them. In Korea, they are not concerned about that. They want to see the success of the team, not that of the individual (which explains why they do absolutely nothing when students cheat ).

[BoholDiver]

I'd laugh if a supermarket clerk tried to tell me off.

Maybe the OP needs to follow Korean culture more. People treat and regard supermarket clerks like servants. You can too. Everyone knows this.

[cdninkorea]

The "everone knows/does/etc. _______" reminds me of what Ayn Rand identified as a logical fallacy she called "the Argument from Intimidation." I'll quote the chapter by that name in The Virtue of Selfishness, p.p. 162-168:

[pkang0202]

You want double bags, just ask for extra bags. You probably have to pay 50 or 100won for it. big deal. YOu just tell them to ring it up.

How the hell does double bags become an argument? Probably because the OP made it an argument. A simple "예, 봉토 더 주세요. 제가 100원 짜리 줄게요."

That's all you gotta say.

The rest of the OP's issues, I imagine stem from the way the OP handled the situation, as opposed to it being a Korean cultural issue. Put a foreigner who is fluent in Korean in all of those situations then I guarantee a different result.

[redaxe]

[Steelrails]

Right because if a Korean person were to complain at us we'd NEVER turn the tables on them.

I don't care if people turn the tables or not, just be consistent. If you turn the tables, expect the tables to be turned on you. If you don't turn tables, then by all means gripe about it when people criticize you.

I know very few people who just take criticism about themselves and evaluate it based on its merits.

I don't, so I don't hold people to that standard.

That being said as for the everyone knows thing, my number one nerve grater is the "Everyone uses Internet Exploder" I get from my coworkers. Of course I turn the tables and say "That's why everyone has viruses."

Or I give sly backhanded compliments "Everyone knows Hyundais are the best cars." "Yes Hyundais have the best warranty." They agree and think I'm agreeing too.

[PeterDragon]

[Gnawbert]

[Gatsby]

Thank you very much for your post, pkang0202. It added an interesting example to the discussion.

As I said earlier, Koreans try to belittle people instead of addressing the issue directly. Your post was a good example of that, pkang0202. Very nice. You should go far in Korea.

Yes, I got my bags, and without saying a word in Korean. I am quite capable of being assertive without arguing, thank you very much.

I have been surprised by how often Koreans of all levels feel it is their right and even duty to tell other people how they should live their lives, even in matters of no consequence to them or anyone else. Koreans seem to feel it is their duty to make sure others are "good Koreans," much like Russians in the days of the USSR might have felt it was their duty to make sure all comrades were good Communists. I get the feeling Korea is a semi-voluntary, quasi-totalitarian country. Chew on that!

Pkang0202, if you had said, simply, that you disagree with my post, that this has not been your experience while in Korea, that I exaggerated, that not everyone is like that here, or some such counter-argument, I would have respected this. The posts of how some of this is an artifact of direct translation from Korean into English are very interesting points. But you chose the route of personal attack, of making me feel small, and.... different.

That's the sort of thing I see a lot of in Korea. It doesn't bother me at all; I'm not a Korean. But I look at Koreans, at Korean conformist culture, and at the children I am teaching, and when I think of how such demeaning, unnecessary insults can wither a sensitive soul, it makes me sick and angry inside.

Not every Korean does this, of course. But those who do, especially to children, should be ashamed. They learn this at an early age. Children here are taught to laugh at other children who don't conform, from what I have seen in classrooms. And they go on to do this to one another as adults.

That's one reason I say Koreans don't care about other Koreans. They often lack compassion for the feelings of others. Acts of kindness without compassion are just empty gestures. Many "kind" Koreans actually have cold, dead hearts, I think. I am struck by how many Koreans cannot comprehend that cats and dogs might actually have feelings.

Why do Koreans so often resort to demeaning insults and caustic laughter? Because so much of their culture is based on lies -- or to put it more gently, myths -- masquerading as truth. Everything here seems to be based on lies, from food, to politics, to history.

You can't defend lies with facts, so you have to enlist everyone in perpetrating these collective myths. The result is that truth is whatever Koreans collectively define it as. Thus you get the formula: "Everyone knows...." It is the way they collectively turn lies into truth. And if you don't go along with the party line, if you don't agree with what "everyone knows," they will stomp on your soul.

But I believe things are going to change, eventually. Some of these young kids are going to grow up OK. Some of them, I believe, will even have the guts that their parents do not have to stand up in public and speak the truth. That is my dream for Korea.

[red_devil]

I've noticed that "context" doesn't really apply. If you try to explain that there's CONTEXT they just brush it off as an excuse.

"You're just making excuses, blah blah".
"No really, it's called context."
"Oh but you shouldn't have done that then..." (blame game starts)