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Rebellion on the Right

 
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:20 pm    Post subject: Rebellion on the Right Reply with quote

Charles Johnson (Little Green Footballs) has been on a roll lately. He had two posts up today that I thought were interesting.

Tea Party Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/us/politics/16teaparty.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

"These people are part of a significant undercurrent within the Tea Party movement that has less in common with the Republican Party than with the Patriot movement, a brand of politics historically associated with libertarians, militia groups, anti-immigration advocates and those who argue for the abolition of the Federal Reserve.

Urged on by conservative commentators, waves of newly minted activists are turning to once-obscure books and Web sites and discovering a set of ideas long dismissed as the preserve of conspiracy theorists, interviews conducted across the country over several months show. In this view, Mr. Obama and many of his predecessors (including George W. Bush) have deliberately undermined the Constitution and free enterprise for the benefit of a shadowy international network of wealthy elites."

That is from a fairly lengthy article from the NYT. "Ron Paul figures prominently, as always. When I first began covering the tea parties, readers positive toward the movement vehemently resisted the idea that Ron Paul and his army of kooks were deeply involved.

No one is resisting any more. It�s become obvious to everyone that the tea party movement is a mix of Paulian paleolibertarianism, religious fanaticism, and plain old whacked out insanity.

This kind of toxic mix is fertile ground for recruitment by extremist groups, and they�re exploiting the opportunity relentlessly." That is from Johnson's commentary on the article.

Then there is this: "Maybe it�s just me, but when someone says that Jews drink the blood of gentile children, I could not possibly care less about his opinions on the Federal Reserve." That's from his commentary on obituaries written on two Ron Paul sites for Eustace Mullins.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/35793_Ron_Paul_Fans_Post_Tributes_to_Rabid_Antisemite
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.38 Special



Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm afraid Johnson makes a pretty pitiful argument.

For one, you cannot attack Ron Paul based on what a couple of his supporters do. There are a lot of wierdoes out there on either side of the political fence.

Secondly, claiming that Tea Parties are recruitment centers for extremist groups is misleading and fear mongering. The vast majority of Tea Partiers, as is corroborated by the Times article, are regular working and middle-class folks attempting to do what conservatives do best: tap the ire of the silent majority via a grassroors organization effort. It worked in '94 following the catastrophic Assault Weapons Ban (amongst other conservative complaints, such as the handling of Waco and Ruby Ridge and Clinton's failed health care reform) -- certainly it can work again.

This is really the third major conservative uprising. The first major uprising was dissatisfaction from Johnson's Great Society that helped sweep in Reagan. With each uprising the terms of the resolve become more bold.

First it was to counter The Great Society with board-spanning tax cuts. They succeeded. Next it was to wipe Washington of Democrats viewed as anti-Civil Rights. They succeeded except for Clinton, but they weren't finished with him. Now they not only want Democrats out but many Republicans as well and they want to freeze reform that does not pass a Constitutionality litmus test and they want to begin stripping autonomous Federal agencies of their iron hold over the economy. It's an ambitious laundry list but it's not out of their reach.

Hopefully Washington is noticing the trend. As long as the silent majority is ignored or their representatives muscled out of legislation, they will become more radical, they will adopt more revolutionary posturing, and the militias will prosper. Militias exist to intimidate the government into behaving itself and their growing muscle will become harder to ignore and attempts to alienate them as "racists, extremists, and domestic terrorists" will become less convincing.

But the real, long term benefits to democracy that these Patriot movements are creating are quite real. Greater awareness of political issues, awareness of the Constitution, and agitation to deflate the two party system could have long-term effects.

Keep your powder dry, folks, this should be a good show Wink
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.38 Special wrote:
I'm afraid Johnson makes a pretty pitiful argument.

For one, you cannot attack Ron Paul based on what a couple of his supporters do. There are a lot of wierdoes out there on either side of the political fence.

Secondly, claiming that Tea Parties are recruitment centers for extremist groups is misleading and fear mongering. The vast majority of Tea Partiers, as is corroborated by the Times article, are regular working and middle-class folks attempting to do what conservatives do best: tap the ire of the silent majority via a grassroors organization effort. It worked in '94 following the catastrophic Assault Weapons Ban (amongst other conservative complaints, such as the handling of Waco and Ruby Ridge and Clinton's failed health care reform) -- certainly it can work again.

This is really the third major conservative uprising. The first major uprising was dissatisfaction from Johnson's Great Society that helped sweep in Reagan. With each uprising the terms of the resolve become more bold.

First it was to counter The Great Society with board-spanning tax cuts. They succeeded. Next it was to wipe Washington of Democrats viewed as anti-Civil Rights. They succeeded except for Clinton, but they weren't finished with him. Now they not only want Democrats out but many Republicans as well and they want to freeze reform that does not pass a Constitutionality litmus test and they want to begin stripping autonomous Federal agencies of their iron hold over the economy. It's an ambitious laundry list but it's not out of their reach.

Hopefully Washington is noticing the trend. As long as the silent majority is ignored or their representatives muscled out of legislation, they will become more radical, they will adopt more revolutionary posturing, and the militias will prosper. Militias exist to intimidate the government into behaving itself and their growing muscle will become harder to ignore and attempts to alienate them as "racists, extremists, and domestic terrorists" will become less convincing.

But the real, long term benefits to democracy that these Patriot movements are creating are quite real. Greater awareness of political issues, awareness of the Constitution, and agitation to deflate the two party system could have long-term effects.

Keep your powder dry, folks, this should be a good show Wink


I agree more with your conclusion than with your analysis.

1. Johnson's title was not about RP himself (who has 'admirably' maintained plausible deniability for years); it was about some RP supporters. He was making the point that people who espouse one cockamamie theory (Jews drinking blood) lose credibility when they espouse another theory (the Fed). I didn't see where Johnson was going for the 'When you lay down with dogs you wake up with fleas' argument. In this post, I think he was just focusing on the fleas.

2. It's not so much that Tea Parties are recruitment centers for extremist groups, but that the Tea Party group is already a collection of extremist groups, as well as 'regular' people. I think the article was just pointing out the number of previously uninvolved people now becoming involved and announcing rather startling things--old ladies saying they are ready to die.

3. This is the second time in recent days I've come across this reference to a 'third uprising'. I need to read up more on this particular interpretation. I'd like to look at their interpretation of the role of Nixon's Southern Strategy and the Religious Right's alliance with traditional conservatism and how that all mixes with the current Tea Party movement which is only sometimes sympathetic with the GOP.

4. I don't have much patience with the idea of a 'Constitutional litmus test' because it is merely an assertion that there is one and only one interpretation of the Constitution. From the days of John Marshall there have been both narrow and broad constructions. For my money, the people who argue for a narrow construction all too often use the same thought process in their interpretation of the Bible. Right or wrong, I see fundamentalism as fundamentalism and reject the claim that it is the only 'right' way.

5. I reject the idea that the silent majority is being ignored. In fact, I reject the idea of a silent majority altogether. We had an election in Nov '08, and everyone who wanted a voice had one. The majority spoke for an active government. The assertion of a silent majority, I believe, is an attempt to overturn the election, akin to the way the 41-vote minority is using the filibuster to overturn the election.

6. I can't accept the idea of militias on any level. The Constitution provides the amendment process for anyone who wants to alter the form of government in any way. Resorting to arms is a rejection of the Constitution and is, in my opinion, treason.

7. I do agree with this (except 'deflate the two party system'--I don't think that is going to change): "But the real, long term benefits to democracy that these Patriot movements are creating are quite real. Greater awareness of political issues, awareness of the Constitution, and agitation to deflate the two party system could have long-term effects.

Keep your powder dry, folks, this should be a good show"
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:


6. I can't accept the idea of militias on any level. The Constitution provides the amendment process for anyone who wants to alter the form of government in any way. Resorting to arms is a rejection of the Constitution and is, in my opinion, treason.

Just to counter Yata's ignorance: militias are not for launching a military coup-d'etat against the government. They are for the Constitutionally armed citizenry (in our REPUBLIC, which differs from the other form of democracy in important ways) to protect themselves against tyranny. The government has clearly turned criminal at this stage and has openly aligned itself with offshore globalist interests (banks etc.), and is actively enabling the looting that is currently going on from above.

More than that, a police state is being put into place, the signs of which are everywhere. Northcom is admittedly for the American people (millions of Americans are already on their terror lists), as are FEMA camps. There are already soldiers being trained to act as police, including foreign troops on US soil. Americans have a right to defend themselves against such a rogue criminal government that infringes on even the most fundamental liberties guaranteed under the Constitution.

What ya-ta is really saying is that it is treason to question Obama. Obama should just be made king and we should all bow down. All his fake liberal spin is just talk.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
There are already soldiers being trained to act as police, including foreign troops on US soil.

I have heard that latter claim before but have not been able to confirm it.

Whatcha got?
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
visitorq wrote:
There are already soldiers being trained to act as police, including foreign troops on US soil.

I have heard that latter claim before but have not been able to confirm it.

Whatcha got?

This is from FEMA's own website:

Quote:
National Level Exercise 2009 (NLE 09)

National Level Exercise 2009 (NLE 09) is scheduled for July 27 through July 31, 2009. NLE 09 will be the first major exercise conducted by the United States government that will focus exclusively on terrorism prevention and protection, as opposed to incident response and recovery.

NLE 09 is designated as a Tier I National Level Exercise. Tier I exercises (formerly known as the Top Officials exercise series or TOPOFF) are conducted annually in accordance with the National Exercise Program (NEP), which serves as the nation's overarching exercise program for planning, organizing, conducting and evaluating national level exercises. The NEP was established to provide the U.S. government, at all levels, exercise opportunities to prepare for catastrophic crises ranging from terrorism to natural disasters.

NLE 09 is a White House directed, Congressionally- mandated exercise that includes the participation of all appropriate federal department and agency senior officials, their deputies, staff and key operational elements. In addition, broad regional participation of state, tribal, local, and private sector is anticipated. This year the United States welcomes the participation of Australia, Canada, Mexico and the United Kingdom in NLE 09.

EXERCISE FOCUS

NLE 09 will focus on intelligence and information sharing among intelligence and law enforcement communities, and between international, federal, regional, state, tribal, local and private sector participants.

The NLE 09 scenario will begin in the aftermath of a national terrorist event outside of the United States, and exercise play will center on preventing subsequent efforts by the terrorists to enter the United States and carry out additional attacks. This scenario enables participating senior officials to focus on issues related to preventing terrorist events domestically and protecting U.S. critical infrastructure.

NLE 09 will allow terrorism prevention efforts to proceed to a logical end (successful or not), with no requirement for response or recovery activities.

NLE 09 will be an operations-based exercise to include: activities taking place at command posts, emergency operation centers, intelligence centers and potential field locations to include federal headquarters facilities in the Washington D.C. area, and in federal, regional, state, tribal, local and private sector facilities in FEMA Region VI, which includes the states of Arkansas, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Texas. Additionally, California, in FEMA Region IX, is also participating.

http://www.fema.gov/media/fact_sheets/nle09.shtm
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