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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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 Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
.38 Special. In case, you don't know...
Guns are bad! And having more guns in society only encourages violence. Watch Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine and compare the number of gun related deaths in the United States with that of Japan where people aren't allowed to own a gun. It's staggering. |
"Gun related death" stats include suicide by firearm, which comprises the majority of gun related death in the US. Are you saying you oppose voluntary euthanasia?
Also, I hope you're a lot more opposed to cars because they're no more necessary for the common citizen than guns and they maim and kill significantly more people each year (even when you incorrectly include suicide by firearm). Moreover, few intentionally kill with cars, which means that the whole "guns don't kill people-- people do" defense doesn't translate there.
By the way, while I'm aware that the car analogy is generally used satirically to prove a point about the absurdity of gun control, I'm actually serious about cars being the worst safety hazard today that most people ignore. It seems few care about how horrible cars are until a friend, family member, or acquaintance is mutilated or killed in an "accident," and even then, it just gets blamed on something some driver did, suggesting the disgusting notion that our lives and well being ought to hinge on how proficient a driver anyone who drives near us is.
And I hate it when women think I'm kidding when I talk about how messed up cars, organized sporting events, the pharmaceutical industry, mandatory education, the unavailability of legitimate assisted euthanasia, or drug prohibition laws are. /on topic save |
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Janny
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: all over the place
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I would love to have a beer with you, Street Magic |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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These are all current pet hates so might sound a little obscure or petty, but nevermind -
I hate it when you start talking to a girl in a pub or bar, and she immediately thinks you are trying to sleep with her. Believe it or not I dont just hit on anyone, sometimes I do just want to chat and meet new people.
I hate it when they dont listen to you and then you were right all along! Really! I hate this! Listen to me for a change!
I hate it when they mock you and then they cant take it. Although I kind of love this as well. |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Street Magic wrote: |
"Gun related death" stats include suicide by firearm, which comprises the majority of gun related death in the US. Are you saying you oppose voluntary euthanasia?
Also, I hope you're a lot more opposed to cars because they're no more necessary for the common citizen than guns and they maim and kill significantly more people each year (even when you incorrectly include suicide by firearm). Moreover, few intentionally kill with cars, which means that the whole "guns don't kill people-- people do" defense doesn't translate there.
By the way, while I'm aware that the car analogy is generally used satirically to prove a point about the absurdity of gun control, I'm actually serious about cars being the worst safety hazard today that most people ignore. It seems few care about how horrible cars are until a friend, family member, or acquaintance is mutilated or killed in an "accident," and even then, it just gets blamed on something some driver did, suggesting the disgusting notion that our lives and well being ought to hinge on how proficient a driver anyone who drives near us is.
And I hate it when women think I'm kidding when I talk about how messed up cars, organized sporting events, the pharmaceutical industry, mandatory education, the unavailability of legitimate assisted euthanasia, or drug prohibition laws are. /on topic save |
You've got to be joking when you compare cars with guns.  Unlike cars, the main purpose of guns is to kill - period.
In my job, I work with police officers and they've told me not to believe silly Hollywood cop movies where someone says "I'll shoot him in the leg." In the real world, the police always shoot to kill. The gun is a last resort in crime fighting.
The car was invented to transport people. The fact that there are people who don't drive well or drive wrecklessly is the fault of poor training or sometimes human error.
There are many other potentially dangerous products that people misuse and then injure or kill themselves with. They include alcohol, fast food, over-the-counter drugs, swimming pools, matches, candles, and in Asia...rice cakes. Old people choke on them, suffocate and die.
Should Korea bann rice cakes (ddeok)? Of course not. Should America stop selling artery clogging cheeseburgers? Of course not. Should people be made aware of the misuse of these products? Absolutely.
Regarding your claim about suicides and guns, I'd like you to cite a study.
And I disagree that guns should be easily available so people can off themselves. I think most of these people just need a good night's sleep (or some good sex) and they'll change their minds.
For those that are beyond help, there are a variety of ways to off yourself (other than the gun). You can hop in your car, screw putting on the seat belt, and do the ole Thelma and Louise, drive off a cliff. |
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
| Street Magic wrote: |
"Gun related death" stats include suicide by firearm, which comprises the majority of gun related death in the US. Are you saying you oppose voluntary euthanasia?
Also, I hope you're a lot more opposed to cars because they're no more necessary for the common citizen than guns and they maim and kill significantly more people each year (even when you incorrectly include suicide by firearm). Moreover, few intentionally kill with cars, which means that the whole "guns don't kill people-- people do" defense doesn't translate there.
By the way, while I'm aware that the car analogy is generally used satirically to prove a point about the absurdity of gun control, I'm actually serious about cars being the worst safety hazard today that most people ignore. It seems few care about how horrible cars are until a friend, family member, or acquaintance is mutilated or killed in an "accident," and even then, it just gets blamed on something some driver did, suggesting the disgusting notion that our lives and well being ought to hinge on how proficient a driver anyone who drives near us is.
And I hate it when women think I'm kidding when I talk about how messed up cars, organized sporting events, the pharmaceutical industry, mandatory education, the unavailability of legitimate assisted euthanasia, or drug prohibition laws are. /on topic save |
You've got to be joking when you compare cars with guns. :lol: Unlike cars, the main purpose of guns is to kill - period. |
How is it a good thing that cars kill many more people each year in accidents than a device designed to kill does? Do you understand how ridiculous that is? Accidental killings are far worse in that at best, the driver is at fault through negligence. I'd much sooner voice support for a machine used for intentional killings that doesn't pose a substantial safety risk through accidents than for a machine that regularly kills against its drivers' wills.
| Dev wrote: |
| In my job, I work with police officers and they've told me not to believe silly Hollywood cop movies where someone says "I'll shoot him in the leg." In the real world, the police always shoot to kill. The gun is a last resort in crime fighting. |
In the real world, police don't shoot people on a regular basis. Also, I've never heard of the myth about leg shooting and I don't know how this is relevant to the broader topic of gun control here.
| Dev wrote: |
| The car was invented to transport people. The fact that there are people who don't drive well or drive wrecklessly is the fault of poor training or sometimes human error. |
Most everyone involved in accidents are licensed, meaning they received training and passed tests before they got there. And even assuming someone is always or often enough at fault doesn't change the fact that negligence or a lack of skill isn't the same thing as intention to maim or to kill. Severe car injuries and deaths occur each year in ever increasing numbers without fail. The phenomenon isn't some unfortunate fluke-- it's a regularly occurring travesty with the sole common factor being the general standard of modern auto manufacturing itself. By choosing to create, facilitate, and/or tolerate a scenario where incredibly high speed and incredibly heavy weight pieces of gasoline powered machinery race together to the end of more convenient travel, highway commissions, car manufacturers, and everyone else complicit in the practice are knowingly sacrificing a regular number of drivers, passengers, and even pedestrians each year to grisly accidental slayings.
| Dev wrote: |
| There are many other potentially dangerous products that people misuse and then injure or kill themselves with. They include alcohol, fast food, over-the-counter drugs, swimming pools, matches, candles, and in Asia...rice cakes. Old people choke on them, suffocate and die. |
Notice how none of those items you listed kill other people nearby because of the user's misuse.
| Dev wrote: |
| Should Korea bann rice cakes (ddeok)? Of course not. Should America stop selling artery clogging cheeseburgers? Of course not. Should people be made aware of the misuse of these products? Absolutely. |
Agreed, although my comment above explains why that isn't relevant.
| Dev wrote: |
| Regarding your claim about suicides and guns, I'd like you to cite a study. |
No problem.
| Dev wrote: |
| And I disagree that guns should be easily available so people can off themselves. I think most of these people just need a good night's sleep (or some good sex) and they'll change their minds. |
There are probably a lot of things (permanent things included) people would change their minds on if you were to try to prevent them from taking part, but like you alluded to above, it's probably best not to go around trying to force people to do what you think is best.
| Dev wrote: |
| For those that are beyond help, there are a variety of ways to off yourself (other than the gun). You can hop in your car, screw putting on the seat belt, and do the ole Thelma and Louise, drive off a cliff. |
A (not buckshot loaded!) shotgun is a lot more reliable than the other methods people have easy access to. I'd prefer people had access to assisted euthanasia through public clinics, but shotguns are probably the next best thing.
| Janny wrote: |
| I would love to have a beer with you, Street Magic |
I should be around in March some time if you're in Korea still and not secretly a dude. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
.38 Special. In case, you don't know...
Guns are bad! And having more guns in society only encourages violence. Watch Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine and compare the number of gun related deaths in the United States with that of Japan where people aren't allowed to own a gun. It's staggering.
Even if you compare the United States with Canada & Europe, it is still far ahead in gun related deaths (and that's after you ratio out the population differences).
You only need a gun if you hunt animals for food.
If you want to make the world a better place, start with yourself. Don't buy a gun or if you have one, get rid of it.
If women want to pick up a previously male dominated past time, be constructive. Pick up a hammar and build something. |
Anyone who uses one of Moore's **cough**documentaries**cough** to prove any kind of point immediately loses credibility. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Banning guns in the US would be a disaster. When they banned opium one of the immediate impacts was the emergence of a heroin black market (heroin being more potent and easier therefore to smuggle and with accidental overdoses much more likely).
People who think introducing legislation will make a problem go away are so cute. |
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
Banning guns in the US would be a disaster. When they banned opium one of the immediate impacts was the emergence of a heroin black market (heroin being more potent and easier therefore to smuggle and with accidental overdoses much more likely).
People who think introducing legislation will make a problem go away are so cute. |
Since you mentioned opium, I'm forced to share the story of the first US drug law. I think it might seem reminiscent of another popular topic here at Dave's:
| Quote: |
To summarize the data reviewed so far, opiates taken daily in large doses by addicts were not a social menace under nineteenth-century conditions, and were not perceived as a menace. Opium, morphine, and heroin could be legally purchased without a prescription, and there was little demand for opiate prohibition. But there was one exception to this general tolerance of the opiates. In 1875, the City of San Francisco adopted an ordinance prohibiting the smoking of opium in smoking-houses or "dens." 1
Opium smoking was introduced into the United States by tens of thousands of Chinese men and boys imported during the l850s and 1880s to build the great Western railroads.* The Chinese laborers then drifted into San Francisco and other cities, and accepted employment of various kinds at low wages --- giving rise to waves of anti-Chinese hostility. Soon white men and even women were smoking opium side by side with the Chinese, a life-style which was widely disapproved. The San Francisco authorities, we are told learned upon investigation that "many women and young girls, as well as young men of respectable family, were being induced to visit the [Chinese] opium-smoking dens, where they were ruined morally and otherwise ** 4 The 1875 ordinance followed, "forbidding the practice under penalty of a heavy fine or imprisonment or both. Many arrests were made, and the punishment was prompt and thorough. 6 |
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/cu/cu6.htm
In case anyone didn't already know, the bedrock of drug prohibition is rabid xenophobia, miscegenation anxieties, and racism in general. |
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guava
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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I can't stand it when women / men...
Digress and go on a tangent that has nothing to do with the original topic.
| Street Magic wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
Banning guns in the US would be a disaster. When they banned opium one of the immediate impacts was the emergence of a heroin black market (heroin being more potent and easier therefore to smuggle and with accidental overdoses much more likely).
People who think introducing legislation will make a problem go away are so cute. |
Since you mentioned opium, I'm forced to share the story of the first US drug law. I think it might seem reminiscent of another popular topic here at Dave's:
| Quote: |
To summarize the data reviewed so far, opiates taken daily in large doses by addicts were not a social menace under nineteenth-century conditions, and were not perceived as a menace. Opium, morphine, and heroin could be legally purchased without a prescription, and there was little demand for opiate prohibition. But there was one exception to this general tolerance of the opiates. In 1875, the City of San Francisco adopted an ordinance prohibiting the smoking of opium in smoking-houses or "dens." 1
Opium smoking was introduced into the United States by tens of thousands of Chinese men and boys imported during the l850s and 1880s to build the great Western railroads.* The Chinese laborers then drifted into San Francisco and other cities, and accepted employment of various kinds at low wages --- giving rise to waves of anti-Chinese hostility. Soon white men and even women were smoking opium side by side with the Chinese, a life-style which was widely disapproved. The San Francisco authorities, we are told learned upon investigation that "many women and young girls, as well as young men of respectable family, were being induced to visit the [Chinese] opium-smoking dens, where they were ruined morally and otherwise ** 4 The 1875 ordinance followed, "forbidding the practice under penalty of a heavy fine or imprisonment or both. Many arrests were made, and the punishment was prompt and thorough. 6 |
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/cu/cu6.htm
In case anyone didn't already know, the bedrock of drug prohibition is rabid xenophobia, miscegenation anxieties, and racism in general. |
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| guava wrote: |
I can't stand it when women / men...
Digress and go on a tangent that has nothing to do with the original topic.
| Street Magic wrote: |
| opium tangent |
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Fine.
I can't stand it when women/men internalize the idea of drug use as immoral when this idea's history is directly rooted in the genuinely immoral hatred of people of other races in conjunction with the objectification of women. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:07 am Post subject: |
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I don't like men who are dumb jocks and can only talk about sports and cars. I especially don't care for their homophobia and closed-mindedness to anything different/not typical jock. Don't get me wrong I love cars, sports, guns, etc. But be able to change it up sometimes. Go to the theater or a gallery once in a while. Don't always watch the same lame comedy/action movies.
I don't like women who have a gender chip on their shoulder and try to mark their territory on you as a man when you've just met. I especially don't like it if they love to dish it out but have a hard time taking it.
As for swearing I think swearing by anyone in a place with families/kids/the elderly is just wrong. It's amazing how many people do this and then when you ask them to be quiet they get all uppity about it. Lose the adolescent "I'm angry at the world and no one can tell me what to do" attitude.
I really don't like how they think they have carte blanche to behave as they please but if someone else behaves as they please, say by throwing their hamburger across the parking lot because they won't stop acting a fool, they all play the victim and start carrying on about society's rules. If you want social anarchy fine, be prepared for the consequences. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| I especially don't like it if they love to dish it out but have a hard time taking it. |
This. |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
.38 Special. In case, you don't know...
Guns are bad! And having more guns in society only encourages violence. Watch Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine and compare the number of gun related deaths in the United States with that of Japan where people aren't allowed to own a gun. It's staggering. |
Looney Tunes indicate that anvils are more dangerous than guns. FYI, Michael Moore has less credibility than Looney Tunes. Looney Tunes is fiction, Moore is a liar.
And I think guns are good, so there 
| Quote: |
Even if you compare the United States with Canada & Europe, it is still far ahead in gun related deaths (and that's after you ratio out the population differences).
You only need a gun if you hunt animals for food. |
Gun related deaths are pretty darn few, even here in the Good Ole U.S. of A. And guns have more uses than just for getting food. They're also great for sports, such as the Biathlon, long range benchrest, and combat shooting. Combat shooting is also a great segue to the other primary use for a firearm: Killing bad people. Because bad people exist, do bad things to good people, and should be prevented from doing bad things/living. But, of course, if you live in Narnia where rape/murder/assault don't exist, then don't worry about it, guns are totally not useful.
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| If you want to make the world a better place, start with yourself. Don't buy a gun or if you have one, get rid of it. |
I've got a better idea. More people should get guns. Actually, it's not so much an idea, because gun purchases have been skyrocketing since the '90s. FYI, the crime rate is now at a 40 year low -- a better place.
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| If women want to pick up a previously male dominated past time, be constructive. Pick up a hammar and build something. |
You'd be surprised how dominating women can be in the shooting sports. If self-defense isn't constructive -- that is, the art of being not dead -- then I don't know what is. 
But yeah, totally, tangents, etc. I don't like it when men (and women) preach and proselytize the blind faith of gun control. It's been proven to be a farce by intellectual midgets who believe there are no bad people, only bad voodoo items that make people do bad things. That's one of my biggest pet peeve  |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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If you believe in guns to facilitate suicides, why don't you also support the removal of all taxes from cigarettes and alcohol. You could legalize heroin & cocaine, two drugs that you can overdose on and die if you choose.
Give people some choices. That's what democracy is about. |
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