Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ajk0952]

Hi ESL Cafe forum members. Before I even bother describing the subject heading, I would like to say a few words. I am completely new in regards to the experience of teaching in South Korea. I am a "Korean-American" currently residing in New Jersey with a bachelor's degree in journalism. I graduated from the Pennsylvania State University in December of 2008. I have always wanted to go overseas temporarily to expand my horizons and broaden my scope of knowledge of different societies that exist in this world. I am not posting this message in order to defame anybody or any organization, nor am I trying to put any particular individual in a bad light. I am just trying to amass information, researching every aspect of teaching english in Korea before making a final conclusion about whether to delve further into this cultural learning experience. Maybe I'm terrible when it comes to figuring out information, but I decided to contact a recruiting agency in order to glean their professional achievements. If I am in the wrong after the forum members state their opinions, I would be more than happy to apologize. After this incident, I feel very discouraged about moving forward with this experience. However, depending on your input, I will just post what's bothering me.

I wrote in a contact form on a particular korean recruitment agency:

Hi. I was wondering whether this recruiting agency is actually reputable and reliable. Is there any way that I can see your certifications as a valid recruitment agency? I am interested in taking on a job position with a one year contract but heard of many horror stories about unfulfilled contracts and other notorious scams. I am currently researching all possible options and would appreciate any helpful responses. Thanks and hope to hear from you soon.

Note: I did not mean any ill-will toward this recruitment agency. I was being honest and don't think I was speaking in an inappropriate manner, or was I?

Anyway, this is the response I got:

I suggest you go back and see what you wrote. Try to put yourself in their position or in our position as an agency. Would you be interested in responding? You should have at least shown some courtesy by sending your resume and picture like everyone else. You will be interested to know an average agency is receiving scores of applications daily. There are simply too many applicants and very busy. There is a very slim chance of you getting any response. They would rather spend time with someone who is likely a better candidate than someone questioning the integrity of a person or organization he is writing to abruptly and out of the blue. Even though you heard some bad comments on the internet about the agencies, this approach will not be appreciated, at least as far as I am concerned. Sure. There are bad apples. But the most of them are good. No market is perfect. You seem to be a Korean-American. Actually I am a Korean-American myself living in Atlanta, GA. The USA is no different as far as I know. There are good and bad in any industry or any society. One thing before I go. I have been in this business almost 9 years now. The internet postings are extermely one sided. They only represent the teachers side of the coin. If you did not know, there are a lot of bad teachers too who are curerntly teaching or had taught in Korea. You can not come up with a good judgement unless you hear both parties. Agree?

By the way, our company does not have any bad record. We are good people.

Note: Is this a professional reply? I don't want to sound like a jerk but spelling and grammar, even from a professional recruitment agency, is pretty horrible.

Anyhow, whatever helpful comments or inquiries would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for taking the time to read my ranting.

[Bloopity Bloop]

What did you expect with a letter like that? Is that how you'd apply for any job? If you can't see why they responded like that, I probably don't have any advice for you; or at least, any that would help you.

I wish you the best of luck with your current endeavors, but I'd strongly suggest you never send a similar letter to any recruiters/employers ever again. Let alone the fact that this was sent WITHOUT a resume or cover letter.

I'd think this is just common sense. I used to think the recruiting/job-search training sessions they had back at my uni were a joke, but I guess they're there for a reason.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[ajk0952]

Thanks for the input. I wasn't actually applying for a job though...just wanted to know more about the company. I guess that's why the PR department exists. So I'll take it to heart what you said and we can just forget about this post. Thanks again.

[ThingsComeAround]

if you aren't applying for a job, then you kind of are wasting their time.

try to ask open-ended questions and don't go on the attack upfront. whoever responded to you did you a favor

[Senior]

OP. You really need to pick up a copy of How To Win Friends And Influence People. Here's a summary;

[Kaypea]

The reply letter you recieved was actually in really good English. Then again, I've been in Korea for a long time...

One thing you can do is ask around on these forums for reccomendations. Some recruiting agencies are wonderful, and work hard to keep their clients happy. I guess they know that we (EFL teachers) actually do talk to each other, so they protect their reputation by being... good.

So, ask around

[NYC_Gal]

Try Alistair at Korean Horizons. He's a former teacher, and an Englishman, so there will be NO communication problems. He lives here now, and speaks Korean as well, so he can (and will) help you if you've got any problems throughout the year.

Just send him a letter stating your interest (leave out all the questions about his company. I assure you that many people here have had brilliant results with him), an updated CV, and a head shot.

Good luck!

[Kaypea]

Oh, I almost forgot... what is the "Eye Opener" here...?

[seoulsucker]

Bottom line: shoe's on the other foot.

After a decade or so of trying to desperately fill jobs with applicants from across the quality board, many recruiters now find themselves in a position of power for the first time in their careers and manalive are they running with it.

A friend of mine was looking for a gig here and just got put through the ringer for asking a simple question about getting pension repaid on an F4 visa, since the contract was designed for an E2. The woman was scoffing at her saying things like, "Well, if you don't take it, I have 100 people who will." She was getting attitude like this from multiple "agencies" until I hooked her up with a friend.

[ajk0952]

To Senior: My intentions were never to criticize, condemn, or complain so your analogy there is not helpful in this scenario.

I realize that yes, I would be wasting the recruiting company's time since I'm not outright applying for a job...they could simply have responded back to me letting me know that I reached the wrong people in regard to my inquiries. Simple as that. Again, I have sent an apology note back even though I know it probably won't be read and discarded because it's a mistake I made. I don't know why the forum members think that I'm trying to attack an individual when you can clearly see my intentions were to gather information. If I wanted to really attack a particular individual or organization, do you really think that I would have wasted everyone's time on this post? I wouldn't have given it any hesitation but I wanted to get the right information so that in the future, nothing like this can happen. FYI, I do know the etiquette of applying for jobs. It's probably the error on my part in asking the wrong questions to the wrong people in the first place. I don't gain anything here by posting this thread so that people can act smart and give me the foot. Maybe there are some people here that need to learn to give more constructive criticism instead of attacking me. Yes, I do know that this particular recruitment agency did me a favor by sending this type of reply. As another individual wrote here, I will try to ask more open-ended questions for the future.

To Nycgal: Thanks for your kind suggestion.

To the one who said "shoe's on the other foot": I definitely agree with your statement. Thanks for the extended explanation on your part.

[ajk0952]

Oh, to Kaypea: the eye-opener, at least in my perspective, is how difficult gathering information is on this particular topic...Yes, there are plenty of websites indicating teacher experiences in Korea but like the reply I got in the letter, I also wanted to know the flip-side of the coin;hence, I wanted to directly communicate with a recruiting agency to see their views. But all I'm getting from this forum post is attacking me instead of showing me where I can get the right information (again, NOT EVERYONE here is attacking me but you know who you are...). But even so, a lot of valuable insight was gained just by these few posts and I want to thank you and everyone else for that.

[tfunk]

I find it unusual that a journalist wouldn't understand how these questions might be construed as derogatory in the given context. Also, in the context of writing for the web, paragraphs should ideally be kept short.

[Chambertin]

Tfunk,
I understand your confusion, and completely agree with it.
However I have been to Pennsylvania. If they went to Jersey from there, ouch. That explains everything.

EDIT:
ALsO we are attakeng yu for ywr wernderfuls use of jernalizm.

Come on. if you claim to be a major in writing at least write. If not properly try to format it for the media you are using.
The real question is, do you want to find information, or do you want it handed to you?
Do the research, as in search, dont send out blocks of text to people and expect gold back. I think there are fewer magic geese out there than you expect to find.

[PatrickGHBusan]

OP: you made a simple mistake. The mistake was interpreted in one way by the company and on that basis their response was pretty normal. The recruiter who responded to you provided you with a pretty clear explanation (high number of applicants for example).

It is indeed hard to get both sides of the 'story' when it comes to English Teaching in Korea. It is hard because most blogs or online discussion boards are one-sided in that they tell the Teachers side of things. All too often, people with bad experiences (due to a bad employer or to their own failings) use the net to rant and vent.

Placement agencies and employers seldom post online so that side of the story remains largely silent. The numerous Teachers who are happy in their jobs also mostly remain silent.

That means those with an ax to grind get top billing and eat up the lion's share of online forums. This in turn can somewhat warp the perception you get.

Bottom line is that there are many excellent recruiters out there and many bad ones. Another basic rule is to take recruiters for that they are: middlemen that match you with a job...nothing more. While some go beyond this with post-placement support services, many do not nor should an applicant expect more. In fact, once the contact is made with the employer, the recruiter should fade in the background as the deal is now between you and the employer.

I know quite a few recruiters (some still active, many that changed fields due the difficulty of the job) that offered post-placement services. In large part this turned out well, on more than one occasion it became a nightmare when the teachers complained about things that were not justified.

Then there is the sheer number of applicants recruiters get. This is worse these days as the market is flooded with applicants. It is hard to imagine the high number of idiots and incompetent morons who apply for jobs through recruiters. Add to those the applicants who apply with every recruiter under the sun or to the same company but through multiple recruiters. Basically, it seems to take roughly 10 applicants to place 1 Teacher.

So email messages sent without complete information like a CV and photo get ignored as would messages like yours (the fishing expedition kind). I think the response you got clearly showed that.

Good luck and through research you can find out the basics of a recruitment agency. However, you will probably, should you eventually apply, have to accept a certain portion of unknown.

Cheers