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waseige1
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:12 pm Post subject: My business.... |
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I am pretty sure that whatever I put in my mouth is my business and likewise....
whatever you put in your mouth is your business.
Unless of course whatever you put in your mouth happens to be part of me. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Kang-aji wrote: |
Let me try to boil down some of the arguments posted here. As I see it, here are the varying opinions:
1. Don't eat any meat. There's no avoiding cruelty if you do.
2. If you don't care how some of the meat you eat is treated before and during death, you shouldn't care about any other animals because that is hypocritical.
3. It's their culture. Period. Trying to change someone else's culture because it offends you is racist.
4. It's ok if you eat animals treated humanely, it doesn't matter what onomatopoeic word describes the noise the animal made, be it "moo", "cluck", "oink", or even "mung mung".
Did I miss anything? |
It's delicious! And good for the health~ |
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Kang-aji
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I don't know the answer. I don't eat dog for a lot of reasons. First of all, I am horrified by the method of slaughter. It doesn't really make a difference if the meat speciffically on my plate was treated humanely, it's the idea that torture is the preferred method. (Does anyone know any statistics on this, by the way? What percentage of dogs slaughtered for food are beaten vs. killed humanely.)
Most of all though, I've had too many personal relationships with canines to be able to eat one. I'd feel like I was eating my childhood friend. Call it hypocritical if you want, but eating a piece of steak or a cut of chicken IS different than eating a fillet of Fido. Even if I sit and imagine a cow in all it's glory frolicking in a sun-lit field before I take that first bite, it is not going to produce any sort of emotional response in me that will prevent me from chewing. But if I try to imagine a dog... I see all the times I played with my dog as a kid. I see my dog as a puppy, trying to bite a ball twice his size. I wouldn't be able to look at the cooked meat! It's not just because dogs are cute (wicked frickin' cute in some cases), it's the fact that most people have emotional attachments to dogs in ways they just do not have for "livestock", for lack of a better word. |
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Kang-aji
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: My business.... |
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| waseige1 wrote: |
I am pretty sure that whatever I put in my mouth is my business and likewise....
whatever you put in your mouth is your business. |
That's all true, but there are limits to that. Limits that are set by society. In the West, it is not culturally acceptable to eat dog. Most people find it intrinsically off-putting. In the East, it is more accepted. It's even more acceptable for a Westerner to eat dog if they're in the East! Think about it: If you were hanging back home, and a friend said, "Man, I just ate a dog!" It'd be weird! But if you're hanging in Itaewon, and a friend says the same exact thing, it's not so shocking. |
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sqrlnutz123
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| sqrlnutz123 wrote: |
| I would like to see as little suffering as possible. |
Do you eat meat? |
I don't see how that's relevent. The point is that people are not going to stop eating meat any time soon. That doesn't mean that people can't make steps toward avoiding the consumption of animals that have been treated very badly. |
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Kang-aji
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| sqrlnutz123 wrote: |
| The point is that people are not going to stop eating meat any time soon. That doesn't mean that people can't make steps toward avoiding the consumption of animals that have been treated very badly. |
Well said. People should watch the documentary "Food Inc." It's really eye-opening. I don't really know what to do about things like this, myself. I mean, it's easy to avoiding eating dog if that's your inclination, but how do you consciously avoid eating mistreated cattle or chicken? It's not like there is a label.
I guess you just have to eat organic, huh?
Or just realize that avoiding this particular hypocrisy might not be the top priority when deciding your diet... |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| sqrlnutz123 wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| sqrlnutz123 wrote: |
| I would like to see as little suffering as possible. |
Do you eat meat? |
I don't see how that's relevent. The point is that people are not going to stop eating meat any time soon. That doesn't mean that people can't make steps toward avoiding the consumption of animals that have been treated very badly. |
It's relevant because the meat that you eat has probably endured some form of suffering on its journey from the fields to the sewage works, via your mouth and anus. It's at least had its natural life cut short so that you can enjoy it with some sauce and/or vegetables.
You have choices. You can choose not to eat meat. Or you can choose to research the conditions that animals-meant-for human-consumption experience. Or you can choose to make yourself feel better about the whole thing by convincing yourself that, surely, this lovely bit of pork/chicken/beef was murde... um, slaughtered "humanely" and didn't suffer. Or you can just say "F it, meat is meat and it's pretty tasty." |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| sqrlnutz123 wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| sqrlnutz123 wrote: |
| I would like to see as little suffering as possible. |
Do you eat meat? |
I don't see how that's relevent. The point is that people are not going to stop eating meat any time soon. That doesn't mean that people can't make steps toward avoiding the consumption of animals that have been treated very badly. |
It's relevant because the meat that you eat has probably endured some form of suffering on its journey from the fields to the sewage works, via your mouth and anus. It's at least had its natural life cut short so that you can enjoy it with some sauce and/or vegetables.
You have choices. You can choose not to eat meat. Or you can choose to research the conditions that animals-meant-for human-consumption experience. Or you can choose to make yourself feel better about the whole thing by convincing yourself that, surely, this lovely bit of pork/chicken/beef was murde... um, slaughtered "humanely" and didn't suffer. Or you can just say "F it, meat is meat and it's pretty tasty." |
Or you can support legislation to set firmer animal cruelty standards with regards to farm animals; this has a far greater potential for impact than any personal dining choices, and is the best option (in my estimation) for someone who both feels eating meat is okay and feels animal cruelty should be kept to a reasonable minimum.
Of course, if one were to succeed in such endeavors, one should be prepared for the substantial cost increases that would come with it. |
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sqrlnutz123
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| sqrlnutz123 wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| sqrlnutz123 wrote: |
| I would like to see as little suffering as possible. |
Do you eat meat? |
I don't see how that's relevent. The point is that people are not going to stop eating meat any time soon. That doesn't mean that people can't make steps toward avoiding the consumption of animals that have been treated very badly. |
It's relevant because the meat that you eat has probably endured some form of suffering on its journey from the fields to the sewage works, via your mouth and anus. It's at least had its natural life cut short so that you can enjoy it with some sauce and/or vegetables.
You have choices. You can choose not to eat meat. Or you can choose to research the conditions that animals-meant-for human-consumption experience. Or you can choose to make yourself feel better about the whole thing by convincing yourself that, surely, this lovely bit of pork/chicken/beef was murde... um, slaughtered "humanely" and didn't suffer. Or you can just say "F it, meat is meat and it's pretty tasty." |
That's right people can chose to stop eating meat. Most people, even with the best intentions are not able to, for a variety of reasons. I'd rather see those people choosing more humanely raised animals, rather than giving up on the whole idea of producing less suffering because they can't become vegetarian or vegan. |
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Kang-aji
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, why is the only choice between vegetarianism and wild, bloodthirsty carnivorous abandon with complete disregard to what creature your eating or how it was treated? |
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warmachinenkorea
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm too lazy to read all 16 pages maybe this link has been posted before.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat
Dog meat is or has been consumed in many places around the world.
I'm a dog lover and believe because humans domesticated canines for, work, sport, aid, etc... We shouldn't eat them. They have been conditioned, over time, to help humans.
I do think if you're gonna eat them then kill them in a humane manner.
I had a great uncle who made his living by raising and slaughtering pigs. I remember helping him as a kid. The pigs didn't suffer, they got one bullet to head. Before and while attending college I worked at a Sara Lee(Jimmy Dean) plant that slaughtered over 1,000 pigs a day. I saw some people lose their jobs because of the mistreatment of the pigs in the barn. The USDA at the plant took major concern for the animal�s treatment before slaughter. I know this doesn't happen everywhere but it did in this plant. They were stunned unconscious, stuck, and bled.
If you've ever came across a dog farm or dog market then the statement, "They raise certain dogs (breeds) for food and others for pets." is false. In Daegu they sell any mutt for food at the market. My wife and I also help at the animal shelter and I've seen dogs that have been rescued from dog markets. They will even eat the precious Korean "Jindo" that they hold as a national treasure. There is a Jindo at the shelter now who lost one eye because he was hammered in the head. He escaped and has taken over a year to even be in proximty of humans. He simply backs into his dog house and won�t come out if a person is around. Another Jindo had a wire wrapped around its neck and left to grow into it. This dog was rescued and has done nothing but digress into a terrible state of fear.
Another thing I don't understand is why would you let an animal your gonna eat for meat sit in a cage for a long time and never build any muscle. The muscle is what you wanna eat right?
Animals can be killed humanly for food. It is possible. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think the concept of killing something for food is cruel, no matter how its done.
I still eat meat, and I'm fine with doing it, but I'm not going to lie to myself and say that regardless of how it goes down, it's still cruel.
I'd rather get the firing squad than be lethally injected. I'd rather be lethally injected than guillotined. I'd rather be guillotined than hung. I'd rather be hung than get the chair.
I'd rather die in any of those ways than linger for 6 months in agony due to some disease.
Cruelty is relative. Bottom line is that dying is the cruelest of all. Everything else is just a preference. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting points, and all duly noted.
But I still struggle with the idea of Humane Slaughter. Those animals don't want to die. We are killing/slaughtering/murdering/executing them purely because we want to eat them. It seems to me that we want to excuse the cruelty of this act by somehow dressing it up and making it "nice". |
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warmachinenkorea
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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tiger fancini I understand where you're coming from too. I'm not trying to fancy it up by any means. I am a meat eater(mostly chicken) and I'm pretty sure I will never be a vegetarian. Animals can be killed in a manner that has minimal suffering. All over the world,( not just the US or Korea) because of mass slaughtering and trying to make profit, animals are treated poorly.
I was raised out in the boonies so I saw a lot of road kill. But there were times when some animals, even dogs and cats, didn't die. We made a point to "put them out of their misery" We didn't do it by clubing or skining them alive. One simple shot to the head and you can see life cease.
I agree with killing for food. Just do it with the least suffering as possible. Sadly dogs are not given that right because of some superstition. Even more sadly other animals are abused for no reason at all before slaughter. |
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