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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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 Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:31 am Post subject: |
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He'll be damn near 80 by then. Hopefully there will be a viable successor to the classical liberal throne by then. Rand the son isn't looking like it. He is too traditional Repub for me.
If the likes of Palin can come from no where, why can't Peter Schiff or some one similar do the same?
Ick I'm talking about politics. I'm going to go take a shower and scrub myself with Brillo pads and jiff. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Hopefully by Election Day, Paul can edge ahead.
 Then all we gotta do is get prepared for the vote-fixing. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
Hopefully by Election Day, Paul can edge ahead.
Then all we gotta do is get prepared for the vote-fixing. |
I don't know about that, but the 2000 election was definitely unfair and thanks to what happened in Florida we are in so much debt and have two wars out there. At least, one of the wars is no longer burning badly out of control (Iraq), but it is still costing too much money. There are 800 military bases out there. I am not a libertarian. I am on the Left, but Obama doesn't have the ability to extricate America out of these wars. I think Paul can do that. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Ron Paul 41% vs Obama 42% for 2012 according to poll |
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| mises wrote: |
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2012/election_2012_barack_obama_42_ron_paul_41
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2012 Presidential Election Match-Up
Barack Obama 42%
Ron Paul 41% |
How's that for hope.
Expect the pejoratives to start flying post-haste. |
That's interesting. Unfortunately, that election will likely never occur. Ron Paul is not going to win the Republican nomination, because too much of his platform is incompatible with Republican conservatism. As such, if he runs, there will be at least one other conservative on that ballot, which will change the numbers substantially.
None the less, the attention Ron Paul has been receiving leaves me feeling somewhat positive. I don't agree with quite a bit of the fellow's opinions, but America needs a real conservative party, and this guy represents real conservatism. Any movement of the Republican Party towards Ron Paul is a good one for our nation. |
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Andro
Joined: 22 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Honestly, from looking at the GOP's leadership right now, it looks like Ron Paul is the only person who could take on Obama. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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don't ignore the Tea-baggers
They are becoming a stronger faction of Republicans. Lets hope they branch off and make their own political party.  |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
don't ignore the Tea-baggers
They are becoming a stronger faction of Republicans. Lets hope they branch off and make their own political party. |
I thought the general consensus on planet Earth was that the Tea-baggers are a bunch of loons?
Though they could maybe carve out a niche like the ol' Monster Raving Loony Party. They beat the Communist Party in one constituency and said "Well, it goes to show that the Communists are even more loony than we are!" |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Ron Paul 41% vs Obama 42% for 2012 according to poll |
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| Fox wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2012/election_2012_barack_obama_42_ron_paul_41
| Quote: |
2012 Presidential Election Match-Up
Barack Obama 42%
Ron Paul 41% |
How's that for hope.
Expect the pejoratives to start flying post-haste. |
That's interesting. Unfortunately, that election will likely never occur. Ron Paul is not going to win the Republican nomination, because too much of his platform is incompatible with Republican conservatism. As such, if he runs, there will be at least one other conservative on that ballot, which will change the numbers substantially.
None the less, the attention Ron Paul has been receiving leaves me feeling somewhat positive. I don't agree with quite a bit of the fellow's opinions, but America needs a real conservative party, and this guy represents real conservatism. Any movement of the Republican Party towards Ron Paul is a good one for our nation. |
I agree that he won't win the Republican nomination. However, if he runs he will bring issues of war, empire and debt/economy (there's no difference between the two anymore) to a group of individuals that just want to spit establishment talking points. That should shake things up a bit.
I disagree with him on abortion, kicking out the UN and some other stuff. But he is the only individual who would end the wars. All of the wars. |
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Adam Carolla
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Ron Paul 41% vs Obama 42% for 2012 according to poll |
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| mises wrote: |
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2012/election_2012_barack_obama_42_ron_paul_41
| Quote: |
2012 Presidential Election Match-Up
Barack Obama 42%
Ron Paul 41% |
How's that for hope.
Expect the pejoratives to start flying post-haste. |
I really doubt that 41% of Americans even know who Ron Paul is. I would take those poll numbers with a very large grain of NaCl. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| chellovek wrote: |
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
don't ignore the Tea-baggers
They are becoming a stronger faction of Republicans. Lets hope they branch off and make their own political party. |
I thought the general consensus on planet Earth was that the Tea-baggers are a bunch of loons?
Though they could maybe carve out a niche like the ol' Monster Raving Loony Party. They beat the Communist Party in one constituency and said "Well, it goes to show that the Communists are even more loony than we are!" |
The Tea Party is anti-taxation. It's not clear, to me, where they stand beyond that. It seems headed to chaos unless they can find a clear direction. Without taxes how do we fund the wars and social security?
Ron Paul is part of the group. He is against the war and so is Pat Buchanan. I don't know if Pat's affiliated with the party. Some racists are attracted to the party and hate Obama and maybe black people according to some allegations.
I am not sure a large percentage of Americans know who Paul is as someone said, but which politicians do they really know? People say ignorance is bliss. I agree until the empire collapses and you can't bask in your ignorance. I will admit, I didn't know much about him until early last year. I researched about him to know more about where he stood.
I am not a supporter, but he looks better than Palin for sure. Palin is another George Bush. We already tried that. |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| chellovek wrote: |
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
don't ignore the Tea-baggers
They are becoming a stronger faction of Republicans. Lets hope they branch off and make their own political party. |
I thought the general consensus on planet Earth was that the Tea-baggers are a bunch of loons?
Though they could maybe carve out a niche like the ol' Monster Raving Loony Party. They beat the Communist Party in one constituency and said "Well, it goes to show that the Communists are even more loony than we are!" |
The Tea Party is anti-taxation. It's not clear, to me, where they stand beyond that. It seems headed to chaos unless they can find a clear direction. Without taxes how do we fund the wars and social security?
Ron Paul is part of the group. He is against the war and so is Pat Buchanan. I don't know if Pat's affiliated with the party. Some racists are attracted to the party and hate Obama and maybe black people according to some allegations.
I am not sure a large percentage of Americans know who Paul is as someone said, but which politicians do they really know? People say ignorance is bliss. I agree until the empire collapses and you can't bask in your ignorance. I will admit, I didn't know much about him until early last year. I researched about him to know more about where he stood.
I am not a supporter, but he looks better than Palin for sure. Palin is another George Bush. We already tried that. |
The Tea Party movement, like the Second Amendment movement, the State Sovereignty movement, and even the Conservative movement are all grass roots groups that have no single leader or direction. What these groups are about varies from community to community, so it is quite difficult for any individual to create a platform that a majority of members can identify with using particulars.
Only vagueness can capture a majority of dissenters into a coherent popular movement. "Hope and Change" sounded really swell. Too bad all of those free-thinkers didn't inquire further. So much for change. Black Bush it is.
Then, of course, there is Palin. She is a true usurper and a lot of conservatives don't trust her. Hell, a lot of conservatives don't trust McCain, either.
Grassroots groups scare a lot of people because they cannot be controlled. They're composed entirely of free citizens asserting their ability to free association and political determinism. They're not refined and well manicured like politicians. They're vulgar in every sense of the word.
But there are a lot of them. They're quite powerful in their numbers as potential votes for their common issue (in this case, taxation and economic interventionism). In the case of the Second Amendment movement they're also a highly visual and formidable military threat to the government and, ironically, the governments foreign enemies as well.
So, in the end, the surest way to kill a grassroots movement is to assign it a leader and make it a party. Unfortunately, that is precisely what Palin is trying to do -- make it the Republican party, that is. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hating the government finally goes mainstream
Three years ago, the Republican establishment piled scorn on the presidential candidacy of Ron Paul.
Today, he is in a statistical tie with President Obama in 2012 polling. His son, an ophthalmologist who has never run for elective office, is well ahead of not only the GOP's handpicked candidate for Senate in Kentucky but also both Democratic contenders -- all statewide officeholders.
What happened? Did America suddenly develop an insatiable appetite for 74-year-old, cranky congressmen from Texas? Is the gold standard catching on?
Paul will not likely be the next president. And his son still faces the most arduous part of his journey as Democrats spend millions to paint him as soft on defense, lax on drug enforcement and too radical on welfare programs.
But there's no doubt that hating the government and the powerful interests that pull Washington's strings has gone from the radical precincts of the Right and Left to the mainstream.
It turns out that watching Goldman Sachs, the United Auto Workers, public employee unions and a raft of other vampires drain the treasury at America's weakest moment in a generation will make a person pretty hacked off.
After Barack Obama's election, Democrats assumed that the American people were battered, bruised and ready for a morphine drip of European-style socialism. Republicans, shocked by their stunning reversals, figured the Democrats were right and started looking for technocrats of their own.
And in a political system fueled by special-interest money, it was hard for the leaders of major parties to imagine anything other than an activist government. After all, if you pay for someone to get elected, you don't expect him to just sit there.
...
This year, the political parties and the press will not be caught off guard. Republican politicians will address tea party rallies, Democrats will denounce the supposed puppeteers of the movement and the press will look for hate speech.
But few will glean the real meaning of the protests or the booming support for Ron and Rand Paul.
It's not about the Pauls themselves or the guys with the "Don't tread on me" flags It's about the people at home who might not be willing to march in the park or join the next Paul money bomb, but who don't blame the folks who do.
Libertarian sentiment has finally gone mainstream.
A movement that said that people should do whatever they wanted as long as it didn't hurt anyone else couldn't compete during the culture wars that began in the 1960s.
But after two wars, a $12 trillion debt, a financial crisis and the most politically tone-deaf president in modern history, Americans may have finally given up on big government. |
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Hating-the-government-finally-goes-mainstream-90852389.html#ixzz0lChOXU1N
Ben Stein accused Ron Paul of using anti semetic speech a few months back for saying that America was occupying Iraq. This is how they will deal with him. It will not work but it will enrage and radicalize a huge chunk of his supporters. The Republican machine will keep him out in service of the military industrial and banking industrial complexes but hopefully he can change the topic of conversation just enough to make a difference. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
Hating the government finally goes mainstream
Three years ago, the Republican establishment piled scorn on the presidential candidacy of Ron Paul.
Today, he is in a statistical tie with President Obama in 2012 polling. His son, an ophthalmologist who has never run for elective office, is well ahead of not only the GOP's handpicked candidate for Senate in Kentucky but also both Democratic contenders -- all statewide officeholders.
What happened? Did America suddenly develop an insatiable appetite for 74-year-old, cranky congressmen from Texas? Is the gold standard catching on?
Paul will not likely be the next president. And his son still faces the most arduous part of his journey as Democrats spend millions to paint him as soft on defense, lax on drug enforcement and too radical on welfare programs.
But there's no doubt that hating the government and the powerful interests that pull Washington's strings has gone from the radical precincts of the Right and Left to the mainstream.
It turns out that watching Goldman Sachs, the United Auto Workers, public employee unions and a raft of other vampires drain the treasury at America's weakest moment in a generation will make a person pretty hacked off.
After Barack Obama's election, Democrats assumed that the American people were battered, bruised and ready for a morphine drip of European-style socialism. Republicans, shocked by their stunning reversals, figured the Democrats were right and started looking for technocrats of their own.
And in a political system fueled by special-interest money, it was hard for the leaders of major parties to imagine anything other than an activist government. After all, if you pay for someone to get elected, you don't expect him to just sit there.
...
This year, the political parties and the press will not be caught off guard. Republican politicians will address tea party rallies, Democrats will denounce the supposed puppeteers of the movement and the press will look for hate speech.
But few will glean the real meaning of the protests or the booming support for Ron and Rand Paul.
It's not about the Pauls themselves or the guys with the "Don't tread on me" flags It's about the people at home who might not be willing to march in the park or join the next Paul money bomb, but who don't blame the folks who do.
Libertarian sentiment has finally gone mainstream.
A movement that said that people should do whatever they wanted as long as it didn't hurt anyone else couldn't compete during the culture wars that began in the 1960s.
But after two wars, a $12 trillion debt, a financial crisis and the most politically tone-deaf president in modern history, Americans may have finally given up on big government. |
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Hating-the-government-finally-goes-mainstream-90852389.html#ixzz0lChOXU1N
Ben Stein accused Ron Paul of using anti semetic speech a few months back for saying that America was occupying Iraq. This is how they will deal with him. It will not work but it will enrage and radicalize a huge chunk of his supporters. The Republican machine will keep him out in service of the military industrial and banking industrial complexes but hopefully he can change the topic of conversation just enough to make a difference. |
As far as Ben Stein, I think he had just emerged from a conference that entails a support for a right wing type of Israel and having certain talking points and dealing with issues like whether the West Bank is occupied or not. It may explain why Ben Stein called Paul's statements like the anti-Semitic comments about Israel being an occupier. In that case, it would be more appropriate to say Ron Paul is being a self-hating American since Paul is American just as a Stein may call a fellow Jew questioning the settlements (60% of American Jews do) a self-hating Jew if the person vigorously opposes Israel for that.
As far as spending, many Americans are beginning to panic after hearing the huge numbers for the bail-outs, health care, and military expenditures. Even people who believe in universal health care are nervous about the spending because of the amount of money spent by both George Bush and Obama.
One poster called Obama the black Bush. I suppose it's because Obama doesn't have a game plan for extricating America out of its South Asian Vietnam, where the populace considers the government of Karzai to be a a corrupt puppet just as the Vietnamese felt about Saigon. We will see if NATO can win in Afghanistan. It's possible in theory, but there is little support in Afghanistan for NATO, and the war is costing at least a couple of hunred billion down there. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
As far as Ben Stein, I think he had just emerged from a conference that entails a support for a right wing type of Israel and having certain talking points and dealing with issues like whether the West Bank is occupied or not. |
He was using an all or nothing, go immediately for the throat style of argumentation that is far too common and rapidly losing all effectiveness. |
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