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machinoman
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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 Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:45 am Post subject: Re: The Afterlife |
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| Radius wrote: |
I know its tempting! i took it and have never looked back. i now have no fear of death and eternity because the Bible tells me I go to Heaven for accepting Jesus as my Savior.
And before you say the Bible was written by man, and full of lies etc., the Bible was God-breathed, and divinely inspired by God Himself---so, even though it was written by man, God was the author and the inspired man for each letter and word written in it.
As it is, God cannot sin, he cannot lie, so therefore the Bible cannot be false.
its logical.
think about it.
the offer is extended to everyone---accept Jesus as your savior, ask Him to Save you from your sins, and be Born Again!
....Otherwise, die in your OWN sins, and pay for them yourself in Hell.
The answer was clear to me. Ill take Jesus and Salvation. |
The Bible is a brilliant book, filled with very moving information. Who knows, maybe it was written by God, or by those who He chose to write it. I love the Bible. What annoys me is hypocrites who believe they will get into a Christian heaven simply by prothlesizing, while behaving as sinfully as the rest of us.
Had sex before marraige? If the Bible really is the word of God, I'll see you in Hell.
Thats logical.
Think about it. |
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Radius
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:41 am Post subject: Re: The Afterlife |
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| machinoman wrote: |
| Radius wrote: |
I know its tempting! i took it and have never looked back. i now have no fear of death and eternity because the Bible tells me I go to Heaven for accepting Jesus as my Savior.
And before you say the Bible was written by man, and full of lies etc., the Bible was God-breathed, and divinely inspired by God Himself---so, even though it was written by man, God was the author and the inspired man for each letter and word written in it.
As it is, God cannot sin, he cannot lie, so therefore the Bible cannot be false.
its logical.
think about it.
the offer is extended to everyone---accept Jesus as your savior, ask Him to Save you from your sins, and be Born Again!
....Otherwise, die in your OWN sins, and pay for them yourself in Hell.
The answer was clear to me. Ill take Jesus and Salvation. |
The Bible is a brilliant book, filled with very moving information. Who knows, maybe it was written by God, or by those who He chose to write it. I love the Bible. What annoys me is hypocrites who believe they will get into a Christian heaven simply by prothlesizing, while behaving as sinfully as the rest of us.
Had sex before marraige? If the Bible really is the word of God, I'll see you in Hell.
Thats logical.
Think about it. |
The Bible says that Jesus paid for every ONE of my sins. So therefore, He died for them ALL. The Bible does explain that we should strive NOT to sin. It says, "should we go on sinning so that Grace may abound? NO!"
Jesus dies for me---thats called Grace. So should i sin more, so that He extends His grace to me more? the Bible says No. But, the Bible also says that His death and resurrection will cover every one of my sins. I am saved by His Blood---not by my own good works (and i am not sent to Hell for my bad ones, bc He died for them.)
Going to Heaven through Jesus is a free gift. He extends His gift to you, its just up to you and every other individual if he or she wants to accept it. |
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Radius
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:43 am Post subject: Re: The Afterlife |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Radius wrote: |
its logical.
think about it. |
Yeah, no. There's nothing logical about Christianity. It's incredibly illogical. The idea of a loving God that would under any circumstances consign anyone to a place like Hell is completely irrational. The idea of sin is completely irrational. The idea of Jesus dying for humanity's sins is beyond irrational. Christianity is a collection of fairly reasonable ethical teachings wrapped up in an utterly retarded hypothetical cosmology. Believe it if you want to, but don't even try to pretend there's a solid intellectual basis behind that vapid, emotionally-driven belief. |
No. God sets the punishment for sin. It is Hell. We are offered Salvation from our sins through Jesus' death on the cross. Believe that he died for you and you saved the Bible says. The bible also says that God does not take pleasure in sending people to hell, but they go on their own accord---by denying Jesus' death on the cross. So in essence, He paid for my sins when he went to hell for three days after he died, so He died in my place, but those who die WITHOUT Jesus pay for their OWN sins when the time comes that they die, and after they face Judgment. |
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machinoman
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:15 am Post subject: Re: The Afterlife |
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| Radius wrote: |
The Bible says that Jesus paid for every ONE of my sins. So therefore, He died for them ALL. The Bible does explain that we should strive NOT to sin. It says, "should we go on sinning so that Grace may abound? NO!"
Jesus dies for me---thats called Grace. So should i sin more, so that He extends His grace to me more? the Bible says No. But, the Bible also says that His death and resurrection will cover every one of my sins. I am saved by His Blood---not by my own good works (and i am not sent to Hell for my bad ones, bc He died for them.)
Going to Heaven through Jesus is a free gift. He extends His gift to you, its just up to you and every other individual if he or she wants to accept it. |
But I am assuming you do not "strive not to sin", and will continue having premarital sex? You are putting all your chips on this "as long as I appologize, I can do whatever I want" moral loophole strategy? Seems wrong. If you want to be a good Christian, you have to follow all the rules stated in the Bible, not just the convenient ones.
What I am getting at is, is if person A leads an immoral life, but appologizes to Christ at the last second and goes to heaven, and person B leads a completely moral life, but does not accept Christ and burns, what is the point in being moral?
I propose that the majority of society engages in morality because it is for their own good; people are kind to others strictly because it is in their own best interest. A cold, selfish theory? Perhaps, but its less cold and selfish then being kind to others only because you are afraid of burning. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:28 am Post subject: Re: The Afterlife |
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| Radius wrote: |
| No. God sets the punishment for sin. It is Hell. |
Then God is a hateful sociopath, because no one but a hateful sociopath would needlessly condemn someone to suffer simply for their beliefs (or lack thereof). But that contradicts the idea that God is loving and forgiving. Therefore, Christianity is an irrational mess totally devoid of logic. QED.
| Radius wrote: |
| The bible also says that God does not take pleasure in sending people to hell, but they go on their own accord---by denying Jesus' death on the cross. |
If I say, "I don't enjoy shooting you in the head, but if you don't do as I say you're really just shooting yourself by not obeying me," would you say that's reasonable? Of course not, no one would. None the less, that doesn't stop Christians from pulling out the same vapid non-logic in attempting to defend their faerie tales. Why the religious think using frankly stupid argumentation that we'd never accept in any other situation is at all persuasive is beyond me.
Look, like I said, you can believe whatever you want to; lots of people are for whatever unfortunate reason unable to admit they don't know the truths of the world and as such prefer to believe in faerie tales instead. Fine, good for you. But if you're going to stand up and proudly annouce your belief in stupid, irrational things and try to defend it as logical, expect to be called on it.
| Radius wrote: |
| Going to Heaven through Jesus is a free gift. He extends His gift to you, its just up to you and every other individual if he or she wants to accept it. |
Yeah, congratulation on partaking in a religion which is the cosmological equivalent of a free coupon to Country Kitchen Buffet. Be sure to load up on bacon and waffles. After all, it's all on Jesus' tab, right? And all it cost you was your dignity. |
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Radius
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: The Afterlife |
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| machinoman wrote: |
| Radius wrote: |
The Bible says that Jesus paid for every ONE of my sins. So therefore, He died for them ALL. The Bible does explain that we should strive NOT to sin. It says, "should we go on sinning so that Grace may abound? NO!"
Jesus dies for me---thats called Grace. So should i sin more, so that He extends His grace to me more? the Bible says No. But, the Bible also says that His death and resurrection will cover every one of my sins. I am saved by His Blood---not by my own good works (and i am not sent to Hell for my bad ones, bc He died for them.)
Going to Heaven through Jesus is a free gift. He extends His gift to you, its just up to you and every other individual if he or she wants to accept it. |
But I am assuming you do not "strive not to sin", and will continue having premarital sex? I absolutely strive to not sin, but the Bible says that sin will wage war against the flesh until the day we die. The Apostle paul struggled with sin. he said that "he does what he DOES NOT want to do (sin), and does NOT do what HE WANTS to do (not sin)." its Romans chapter 8. read it. But basically, we are all human, even us saved humans, and we will *all* sin until the day we die. God knows that. But the Love of God that sent his only Son to die in my place will cover every sin i commit.....that is why i will praise Him all the days of my life and then forevermore when i see him in Heaven! You are putting all your chips on this "as long as I appologize, I can do whatever I want" moral loophole strategy? Seems wrong. If you want to be a good Christian, you have to follow all the rules stated in the Bible, not just the convenient ones.
What I am getting at is, is if person A leads an immoral life, but appologizes to Christ at the last second and goes to heaven, and person B leads a completely moral life, but does not accept Christ and burns, what is the point in being moral? Its not that we "apologize" for our sin, it is *acknowledging* it, confronting it, and asking to be Saved from it! You must, A, admit you are a sinner, and then B, ask God to save you from your sins by *accepting* Jesus as your savior and believing He died on the cross for you. Then, when you are born-again, your future afterlife is sealed. Take a look at Romans 8:35-39:
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
You see, noone can separate me from the Love offered to me in Jesus. I accept it. now won't you accept Him today and live forever?! You WILL live forever, but WHERE will you spend that eternity is the question. and the Bible is quite clear. there is only two places. You know where those two places are---one prepared for the devil and his angels, and the other is the abode of the One, True Living God. I want to be where God is, so i accept Jesus as my Savior.
I propose that the majority of society engages in morality because it is for their own good; people are kind to others strictly because it is in their own best interest. A cold, selfish theory? Perhaps, but its less cold and selfish then being kind to others only because you are afraid of burning. |
BTW, thank you for not patronizing me for my views on God and Jesus and the afterlife. Though i will not comment any further (or i will try not to so it doesnt turn into an argument) i appreciate your kind rebuttals, and non-threatening demeanor. thanks! |
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machinoman
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:51 pm Post subject: Re: The Afterlife |
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| Radius wrote: |
| BTW, thank you for not patronizing me for my views on God and Jesus and the afterlife. Though i will not comment any further (or i will try not to so it doesnt turn into an argument) i appreciate your kind rebuttals, and non-threatening demeanor. thanks! |
Far be it from me to criticize others on topics I have little knowledge of. I do not think organized religions are wrong, but I do not think any church is completely 'good' either. Most modern religions place too much emphasis on recruitment, and not nearly enough emphasis on moral behavior.
If there is a God, I seriously doubt he puts less stock in how people behave than in what people call Him. If he does... ours is a dreary existence, indeed.
You want people to follow your religion? Lead by example. A good religion should speak for itself, just as the best colleges do. |
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lithium
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| blackjack wrote: |
we are born
we live
we die
we rot |
until... |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| lithium wrote: |
| blackjack wrote: |
we are born
we live
we die
we rot |
until... |
We get dug up by Time Team? |
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pangaea
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Radius wrote:
| Quote: |
I know its tempting! i took it and have never looked back. i now have no fear of death and eternity because the Bible tells me I go to Heaven for accepting Jesus as my Savior.
And before you say the Bible was written by man, and full of lies etc., the Bible was God-breathed, and divinely inspired by God Himself---so, even though it was written by man, God was the author and the inspired man for each letter and word written in it.
As it is, God cannot sin, he cannot lie, so therefore the Bible cannot be false.
its logical.
think about it. |
Your argument might seem logical to you because you assume the existence of a supreme being and you assume your audience does as well. That is not the case.
Faith itself is illogical because it involves belief in things for which there is no proof. I'm not talking about "because I know it in my heart" proof. I'm referring to solid, scientific proof based in the physical world.
I am not attempting to start a religious debate or argue the merit of your beliefs. My position is that logic does not apply to faith.
As for the afterlife...I don't know what happens. I like the idea of reincarnation. It seems fair somehow. It doesn't seem right that some people lead lives full of violence and desperation or that some children die young without getting to fully experience life and that is the only chance they get. However, since I don't have proof - logical evidence that points to reincarnation being a fact - I can't fully commit myself to it. |
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Forward Observer
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Location: FOB Gloria
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| I just want to know how it was that Moses and all those guys back in his time lived for hundreds of years, and all we get is a measly 40-90 years if we're lucky. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:37 am Post subject: |
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I think all the answers are in the Vedic literatures. Our real selves were never born and will never die. Our sojourn in the material world - perhaps for millions of years - is just a matter of changing bodies according to our desires and karma. At the time of apparent death, the subtle mind carries the infinitessimal spirit-soul to its next destination just as the wind carries an aroma.
http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Asitis5.html
http://harekrishna.com/col/books/KR/cb/chapter7.html |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| The wind's carrying an aroma alright... |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:24 am Post subject: |
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It's not easy to maintain some spiritual focus in a world filled with so much crudeness, but it is possible.
Of course, whatever we do - or don't do - to perfect our consciousness in this life will be tested at the time of death.
Like unprepared students, many are hoping that there somehow won't be a "final exam" to test our spiritual fitness - after all so many smart dudes like Dawkins say there's no God - but I wouldn't bet against it. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
It's not easy to maintain some spiritual focus in a world filled with so much crudeness, but it is possible.
Of course, whatever we do - or don't do - to perfect our consciousness in this life will be tested at the time of death.
Like unprepared students, many are hoping that there somehow won't be a "final exam" to test our spiritual fitness - after all so many smart dudes like Dawkins say there's no God - but I wouldn't bet against it. |
What I find truly appalling is organized religions preying on people's fears, like that of death, to increase membership, and thus revenue. Peoples' simple fears of the unknown being amplified and exploited for monetary gain.
A large part of this and equally appalling is the common-amongst-organized-religions bias against the material world, the world we live in, in favor of some random afterlife. (depending on faith) Time and again we hear that we live in a world of sin, "crudeness" and death, and that everything will be better after we die. Wow, inspirational.
Incredibly selfish behavior perpetrated by institutions that insinuate their intentions are the exact opposite. |
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