|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
leopard7
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:12 pm Post subject: To centralCall: |
 |
|
| True, they have problems, but let's not pretend the West is better. Teachers get assaulted both verbally and physically more in the West than here. And Koreans score higher, generally, in math and science, not to mention they are learning two languages. Most Westerners are not fluent in two langauges. And Korean kids study a lot harder than any Western kids, they study even more than the Japanese. There's blame to go around everywhere--nowhere is perfect. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: Don't see the need |
|
|
Leopard I don't see the need to get dragged into the type of debate that you want. This thread seems to have been about geniune problems and people offering good solutions.
The other issue that you are bringing up has been discussed endlessly since the creation of this forum. Let's not go there for now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:23 am Post subject: Re: To centralCall: |
|
|
| leopard7 wrote: |
| True, they have problems, but let's not pretend the West is better. |
Oh, I'd say it's much better that in the West the standard method of class control is beating the living crud out of the students as it is here.
| Quote: |
| Teachers get assaulted both verbally and physically more in the West than here. |
Verbally? I'd dearly love to see how you're going to manage to prove that. And it's kind of hard for the students to be assaulting the teachers when all the teachers are carting around "love sticks."
| Quote: |
| And Koreans score higher, generally, in math and science, |
Big deal. Those aren't the only two subjects needed in life.
| Quote: |
| not to mention they are learning two languages. Most Westerners are not fluent in two langauges. |
And how's that working out in Korea? The vast majority of Koreans cannot speak another language, let alone fluently. It's a great thing that the government wants the students to learn another language--I wish more jurisdictions in the US would require the same--but the current method isn't working out very well.
| Quote: |
| And Korean kids study a lot harder than any Western kids, they study even more than the Japanese. |
They spend more hours in school and cram schools. That doesn't mean that they study more or study harder.
| Quote: |
| There's blame to go around everywhere--nowhere is perfect. |
Where did anyone say the West was perfect? So, if bad things happen at schools in the West, nobody should care that bad things happen in Korea? I guess that means that since bad things happen in schools in Korea, nobody should care about what happens in the schools in the West. The simple fact is that many of us posting happen to be in Korea and this is our home now. We have an interest in improving life here, even for improving life for our students. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:16 am Post subject: Re: To centralCall: |
|
|
| leopard7 wrote: |
| True, they have problems, but let's not pretend the West is better. Teachers get assaulted both verbally and physically more in the West than here. And Koreans score higher, generally, in math and science, not to mention they are learning two languages. Most Westerners are not fluent in two langauges. And Korean kids study a lot harder than any Western kids, they study even more than the Japanese. There's blame to go around everywhere--nowhere is perfect. |
Math and science generally don't require creativity at at younger age. Sure, later on analysis is required, but don't knock the humanities. I jump for joy inside when I witness one of my students showing some genuine creativity. April fool's day was fantastic! I jumped thrice in one day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
leopard7
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: To centralcall: |
|
|
| Since you're such a champion of Western schools, why are you in Korea? To show them all how "superior" you are? I don't get it. Why aren't you teaching in your home country? Care to explain? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| buildbyflying wrote: |
EDIT: @Sulperman: I wish my school agreed with you... There's no reason for a NET to focus on receptive skills, rote memorization, etc.
@eljeuro(sp.): I think a large part of what you're experiencing is the direct effect of teaching the audio-lingual approach. It can give the impression that students are learning in the short term, but the long term effects are less than impressive.
What I understand you're saying is that you're not working out of the (KET) textbook? Much of the material they use is redundant, but many of the students still haven't achieved "mastery". The lessons may or may not be boring, but it seems the co-t and the vp isn't giving you the feedback you need to be successful. Is it possible "boring" is simply code for "we want more games"?
This article talks a bit about cultural influence. Ddeubels thread also talks about this (though I haven't had a chance to read in detail).
http://www.brookes.ac.uk/schools/education/eal/eal-1-2/vol1-no2-koreanlearnersofenglish.pdf
I don't know. Maybe, picking your classes apart is normal (?) in a culture where kudos isn't common (Cho, 2004). Also, if you've given previous criticism to a co-t they may be responding defensively.
Either way good luck. It's hella frustrating to bang your head against a wall only to ahve someone say, "Here's another wall for you to bang your head against when you're done." |
I've had the" So called" your lessons are boring advice. Even when I was the only teacher who was playing games. When the Korean teacher teaches alone all I can hear is lots of Korean. What little English I hear is directly quoted from the textbook.
When they tell me my classes are boring I respond by asking them, Why they don't play games in their own classes. They usually brush this of as
Well it's the foreign teachers goal to play games not the Korean teachers goal.
I see the benifit of playing games but ultimately playing too many games is really bad and it undermines the concept of edutainment. Sometimes the request for more games is just a clever way of disempowering the foreign teacher. This is part of the whole" Watch the Foreigner fall game.
All of a sudden the KET's grammar translation lectures don't look so bad when the NET is playing hangman for 45 minutes.
I had this problem last semester despite using practically every game on
EFL Classroom 2.0. I turned out the teacher who perpetuated that criticism is gone and so is that line of criticism. Which makes me conclude that is was all fabricated to begin with. I learned a valuable lesson when dealing with KET feedback SNIP, Smile, Nod, Ignore, Proceed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| buildbyflying wrote: |
EDIT: @Sulperman: I wish my school agreed with you... There's no reason for a NET to focus on receptive skills, rote memorization, etc.
@eljeuro(sp.): I think a large part of what you're experiencing is the direct effect of teaching the audio-lingual approach. It can give the impression that students are learning in the short term, but the long term effects are less than impressive.
What I understand you're saying is that you're not working out of the (KET) textbook? Much of the material they use is redundant, but many of the students still haven't achieved "mastery". The lessons may or may not be boring, but it seems the co-t and the vp isn't giving you the feedback you need to be successful. Is it possible "boring" is simply code for "we want more games"?
This article talks a bit about cultural influence. Ddeubels thread also talks about this (though I haven't had a chance to read in detail).
http://www.brookes.ac.uk/schools/education/eal/eal-1-2/vol1-no2-koreanlearnersofenglish.pdf
I don't know. Maybe, picking your classes apart is normal (?) in a culture where kudos isn't common (Cho, 2004). Also, if you've given previous criticism to a co-t they may be responding defensively.
Either way good luck. It's hella frustrating to bang your head against a wall only to ahve someone say, "Here's another wall for you to bang your head against when you're done." |
I've had the" So called" your lessons are boring advice. Even when I was the only teacher who was playing games. When the Korean teacher teaches alone all I can hear is lots of Korean. What little English I hear is directly quoted from the textbook.
When they tell me my classes are boring I respond by asking them, Why they don't play games in their own classes. They usually brush this of as
Well it's the foreign teachers goal to play games not the Korean teachers goal.
I see the benifit of playing games but ultimately playing too many games is really bad and it undermines the concept of edutainment. Sometimes the request for more games is just a clever way of disempowering the foreign teacher. This is part of the whole" Watch the Foreigner fall game.
All of a sudden the KET's grammar translation lectures don't look so bad when the NET is playing hangman for 45 minutes.
I had this problem last semester despite using practically every game on
EFL Classroom 2.0. I turned out the teacher who perpetuated that criticism is gone and so is that line of criticism. Which makes me conclude that is was all fabricated to begin with. I learned a valuable lesson when dealing with KET feedback SNIP, Smile, Nod, Ignore, Proceed. |
Take the powerpoint games from EFL Classroom and other similar sites and custom tailor them to match the lesson plans exactly. Substitute some great photos and you're superteacher to them. Tell them it took hours and hours and you were so busy that you need to take a rest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: To centralcall: |
|
|
| leopard7 wrote: |
| Since you're such a champion of Western schools, why are you in Korea? To show them all how "superior" you are? I don't get it. Why aren't you teaching in your home country? Care to explain? |
To whom are you addressing this post? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Leopard,
Many of us came here for a change of pace. It doesn't mean we have to love everything about the school system. Some things are better back home. Some things are better here. We're allowed to dislike some aspects and try to work together to find ways of improving some of them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thunderbird
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ha ha my biggest difficulty is weather we play hangman bingo scrabble or a ball game and needing earplugs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
leopard7
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: To centralcall: |
|
|
| I addressed it to you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, then.
1. I'm not a champion of Western schools. I believe schools there also have problems. I addressed your mistaken descriptions of the differences in the students. That does not make me a champion.
2. I am in Korea for a number of reasons. One is that I first came to Korea when I entered university some time ago. As my degree is in Linguistics, teaching English here fits in with my education.
3. I never said, nor did I imply, that I'm superior to Korea.
4. I'm not teaching in my home country because I have no interest in teaching there. I like Korea and have liked the country since I first came here. For the most part, I enjoy the opportunity to teach children the English language along with some aspects of the English-speaking cultures.
Finally, I'll quote NYC-Gal, as I, along with a number of other foreign teachers and ex-pats I know here, agree with this comment completely:
| Quote: |
| Some things are better back home. Some things are better here. We're allowed to dislike some aspects and try to work together to find ways of improving some of them. |
One of the ways to improve English education here is to improve pervasive problems with the education system. That is what the OP was addressing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
leopard7
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject: To Centralcali: |
|
|
| I agree that things can always be improved anywhere. I just wanted to say I don't think Korean kids are much different than any other kids anywhere, and I respect how much they study. I just get tired of all the posts about how slow Korean students are when most Westerners don't even try to learn another language. I'm quite flattered that Koreans want to learn my native language, and I also enjoy learning theirs. I've found that learning some Korean really goes a long way in teaching English. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
