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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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 Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| The real reason isnt that we not that the U.s. doesnt t trust the Koreans to respond properly. the wartime control is to let China know that we are not going to walk away if the balloon goens up. It is smbolic of a committment. During the retreat from SeouL the korean military panicked even though the rear guard was holding off the North korean giving time for the evacuation. A senior Korean general panicked blew the bridges trapping three divisions on the other side. So there perhaps is some fear of Korean judgement but i think the wartime control thing is a message. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Wartime Control Must Stay with The SuperPower. |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
They showed restraint in the naval clash and the sinking of the Chonan...just why this would be any different?
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They showed restraint because their master told them not to do anything stupid. I'm sorry, but when a country doesn't even have control over its own military, well, in my book, said country is considered the master country's bitch!
Daddy told them to pipe down, so they did. |
South Korea has had peacetime control over its own military for years. Both the naval clash and the sinking of the Chonan occurred under South Korean military control.
BTW do you have any sources for that claim that the U.S told them not to do anything rash? |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Wartime Control Must Stay with The SuperPower. |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
They showed restraint in the naval clash and the sinking of the Chonan...just why this would be any different?
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They showed restraint because their master told them not to do anything stupid. I'm sorry, but when a country doesn't even have control over its own military, well, in my book, said country is considered the master country's bitch!
Daddy told them to pipe down, so they did. |
South Korea has had peacetime control over its own military for years. Both the naval clash and the sinking of the Chonan occurred under South Korean military control.
BTW do you have any sources for that claim that the U.S told them not to do anything rash? |
No need. The whole world knows that SK is just the US's puppet. Any time the US says jump, SK is the first to say how high. They're grateful for what the US and its allies did for them. It's only natural for them to...OBEY. I mean, look at the 'gifts' they give. Open beef market? lol.  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Wartime Control Must Stay with The SuperPower. |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
They showed restraint in the naval clash and the sinking of the Chonan...just why this would be any different?
|
They showed restraint because their master told them not to do anything stupid. I'm sorry, but when a country doesn't even have control over its own military, well, in my book, said country is considered the master country's bitch!
Daddy told them to pipe down, so they did. |
South Korea has had peacetime control over its own military for years. Both the naval clash and the sinking of the Chonan occurred under South Korean military control.
BTW do you have any sources for that claim that the U.S told them not to do anything rash? |
No need. The whole world knows that SK is just the US's puppet. Any time the US says jump, SK is the first to say how high. They're grateful for what the US and its allies did for them. It's only natural for them to...OBEY. I mean, look at the 'gifts' they give. Open beef market? lol. |
Yeah, that must be the source of all the anti-American protests they've had over the years. Gratitude, that's it. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Wartime Control Must Stay with The SuperPower. |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
They showed restraint in the naval clash and the sinking of the Chonan...just why this would be any different?
|
They showed restraint because their master told them not to do anything stupid. I'm sorry, but when a country doesn't even have control over its own military, well, in my book, said country is considered the master country's bitch!
Daddy told them to pipe down, so they did. |
South Korea has had peacetime control over its own military for years. Both the naval clash and the sinking of the Chonan occurred under South Korean military control.
BTW do you have any sources for that claim that the U.S told them not to do anything rash? |
No need. The whole world knows that SK is just the US's puppet. Any time the US says jump, SK is the first to say how high. They're grateful for what the US and its allies did for them. It's only natural for them to...OBEY. I mean, look at the 'gifts' they give. Open beef market? lol. |
Yeah, that must be the source of all the anti-American protests they've had over the years. Gratitude, that's it. |
The vast majority of the protesters protest because it's "the thing" to do. Moreover, the number of protestors are in the minority when compared to the overall population of this country. 50,000 out of 50,000,000, I would hardly say, is a large number of people. It only looks large because they are all in one small area.
Listen, this country knows what's up. It knows that without The SuperPower, they are up the creek without a paddle. They knew it then and they know it now. Every time I read the newspapers, (insert Korean name) has done this, (insert Korean name) has done that, it is evident that SK has the little-man complex. There is a reason for this.
In the majority of sectors, they live in the shadow of big brother, whether it's the US or China or any other country. THAT, my friend, is irrefutable. Where in the world do you see any other country match Korea dollar for dollar, story for story when it comes to recognizing their brethren overseas? There's a reason for it, and that is, the feeling of inadequacy.
Shut the lip and keep moving, unless you are ready to stand on your own two feet. Until then, keep bowing down to something that is greater than you. That's what I say (or was it Ice-Cube?). Reap the benefits of US culture and of the US economy. Keep biting our style; keep going. They NEED us here; they WANT us here. Authenticity in this country is foregone. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Wartime Control Must Stay with The SuperPower. |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
They showed restraint in the naval clash and the sinking of the Chonan...just why this would be any different?
|
They showed restraint because their master told them not to do anything stupid. I'm sorry, but when a country doesn't even have control over its own military, well, in my book, said country is considered the master country's bitch!
Daddy told them to pipe down, so they did. |
South Korea has had peacetime control over its own military for years. Both the naval clash and the sinking of the Chonan occurred under South Korean military control.
BTW do you have any sources for that claim that the U.S told them not to do anything rash? |
No need. The whole world knows that SK is just the US's puppet. Any time the US says jump, SK is the first to say how high. They're grateful for what the US and its allies did for them. It's only natural for them to...OBEY. I mean, look at the 'gifts' they give. Open beef market? lol. |
Yeah, that must be the source of all the anti-American protests they've had over the years. Gratitude, that's it. |
The vast majority of the protesters protest because it's "the thing" to do. Moreover, the number of protestors are in the minority when compared to the overall population of this country. 50,000 out of 50,000,000, I would hardly say, is a large number of people. It only looks large because they are all in one small area.
Listen, this country knows what's up. It knows that without The SuperPower, they are up the creek without a paddle. They knew it then and they know it now. Every time I read the newspapers, (insert Korean name) has done this, (insert Korean name) has done that, it is evident that SK has the little-man complex. There is a reason for this.
In the majority of sectors, they live in the shadow of big brother, whether it's the US or China or any other country. THAT, my friend, is irrefutable. Where in the world do you see any other country match Korea dollar for dollar, story for story when it comes to recognizing their brethren overseas? There's a reason for it, and that is, the feeling of inadequacy.
Shut the lip and keep moving, unless you are ready to stand on your own two feet. Until then, keep bowing down to something that is greater than you. That's what I say (or was it Ice-Cube?). Reap the benefits of US culture and of the US economy. Keep biting our style; keep going. They NEED us here; they WANT us here. Authenticity in this country is foregone. |
Then why did they agree to the transfer of war-time control in the first place? If they really wanted the U.S. there, they wouldn't have agreed. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Wartime Control Must Stay with The SuperPower. |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Then why did they agree to the transfer of war-time control in the first place? If they really wanted the U.S. there, they wouldn't have agreed. |
TUM,
As long as you have been here, you are STILL trying to rationalize a Korean's thinking process of how they make decisions? In regards to the US, they will still be THE MAN. In other words, SK will still ask 'OPPA' to help them in every which way possible. Furthermore, we should revisit this conversation when it actually happens, if it actually happens. IIRC, it was already 'postponed' once. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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cubanlord, instead of prattling on and on about the psychology of Korea and whatnot, which, let's be honest, is just you talking out of your behind, would you mind assessing US wartime moves over the last 20 years and how they've turned out? Could you also compare the counter-insurgency record of Korean troops in Vietnam vs. American troops.
I'd say the US military has performed quite well, but the US civilian leadership of the military has been questionable at best. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
cubanlord, instead of prattling on and on about the psychology of Korea and whatnot, which, let's be honest, is just you talking out of your behind, would you mind assessing US wartime moves over the last 20 years and how they've turned out? Could you also compare the counter-insurgency record of Korean troops in Vietnam vs. American troops.
I'd say the US military has performed quite well, but the US civilian leadership of the military has been questionable at best. |
Now why would I want to waste that much time? I'm not here to prove a point; I'm just stating my opinion. If you guys are looking for someone to devote hours researching this, then ask someone who gives two cents. If you guys are looking for someone, who, let's be honest, cares, then you are talking to the wrong guy. My years of experience in this country and its culture have helped cultivate my empirical data. If you don't like it, then you can move on to the next thread because I'm not here to compare Richard sizes.
Back on topic here as the lot of you seem to move this in another direction in efforts to propagate your own agendas. You guys do this so that you can somehow 'win' a debate. You still haven't answered my question which was, "read the previous post". Korea cannot have wartime control as they aren't rational enough to make such tough decisions by themselves. There. That should do it.  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| My years of experience in this country and its culture have helped cultivate my empirical data. ) |
Ah, so it's years of experience that qualify one to make an accurate observation?
In that case I should point out that you came here in 2005. I came here in 2001. Clearly I have nearly five years of experience on you. Guess that makes my observations more valid than yours by that logic.
Now don't bother disagreeing with me, you just stated that years of experience are a valid criteria...and apparently the only one as it was the only one you listed.
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| My years of experience in this country and its culture have helped cultivate my empirical data. ) |
Ah, so it's years of experience that qualify one to make an accurate observation?
In that case I should point out that you came here in 2005. I came here in 2001. Clearly I have nearly five years of experience on you. Guess that makes my observations more valid than yours by that logic.
Now don't bother disagreeing with me, you just stated that years of experience are a valid criteria...and apparently the only one as it was the only one you listed.
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lol. TUM! C'mon now! My experience in Korea is most likely different than most Expats here. Therefore, my observation = my opinion based on the 'data' I've received. Certainly, given different circumstances, others will have a different view such as yourself. However, one thing is for sure, irrefutable, is that Korea cannot handle itself in a war-time scenario without the BOYZ helping them out. Shame on you man, I thought you were made of better material? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Wishmaster wrote: |
| No, Mises, the only reason that the ROK did not retaliate is because it would have affected the bottom line(aka financial, investors,etc). |
If they were extremely irrational they would not rationally decide that the consequences are far greater than the benefits.
I don't know anything about war time control and related issues. My point is that the Koreans are first world and rational and can most assuredly handle themselves. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
=
I'd say the US military has performed quite well, but the US civilian leadership of the military has been questionable at best. |
No, it isn't that clear cut. For instance, I'd say Tommy Franks (military) performed horribly while Robert gates (civilian leadership) has been great.
The US military brass cowed to a-hole Rumsfeld after that douche basically fired Shinseki for telling the truth. Basically its top leadership in 2003-04 was abysmal. Yes, that was in part due to civilian leadership, but not completely. For instance Franks cared more about his career than being a good leader.
Now if you mean the US military performed well on the ground, then sure, but it is highly trained and funded, so I would sure as heck hope it would. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| If you guys are looking for someone, who, let's be honest, cares, then you are talking to the wrong guy. |
If you didn't care then why did you post?
| Quote: |
| My years of experience in this country and its culture have helped cultivate my empirical data. |
What empirical data? Please post.
| Quote: |
| I'm not here to compare Richard sizes. |
You're the one who has been prattling on and on about small mans complexes.
| Quote: |
| Back on topic here as the lot of you seem to move this in another direction in efforts to propagate your own agendas. |
You mean the direction of comparing SK forces COIN record vs. American's COIN record in Vietnam so as to suggest that the Koreans might not be total bumblers when it comes to the use of force?
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| Korea cannot have wartime control as they aren't rational enough to make such tough decisions by themselves. There. That should do it. |
I don't know if 'Korea' is or not. I only care about the people in power. The individuals. They may or they may not be. That is an individual assessment.
Look, you may have a point based on instinct or gut feeling or 'a vibe', which I will lend some credence to. Just don't claim that your position is rational or empirical. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| However, one thing is for sure, irrefutable, is that Korea cannot handle itself in a war-time scenario without the BOYZ helping them out. |
Against who?
If you mean NK, then this isn't 1950. They might suffer, but I would bet on SK over NK just for technology sake.
T34 vs Shermans in 1950 was a definite loss.
T64s or 72s against Abrams or thier similar is not the same game.
If you mean China, well even the US won't make that call so easily without serious weaponary. Ask your leadership. |
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