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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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I get the impression that none of you actually spend any time reading the various sites, blogs etc of the Tea Party members. You instead absorb your opinion from the hostile establishment media.
They are 50% Ron Paul and 50% Sarah Palin. So, half libertarian and half anti-liberal. What what do "they" want? Different things.
Oh, I mean. Boooo hisss racist whites!!! Am I cool now?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/19/us/politics/somevapidarticlethatcallspeoplenamesandsetsthetone.html |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Besides the OP, who said it was all racist whites? Actually, the OP didn't say it was racist whites, it was whites fearing losing their control (which is a bit different). In fact, I would say almost half of the respondants support the movement.
Oh, and the part about the hostile establishment media, love it! Especially the part where you then link the NY Times. I guess we should all just get our news from grassroot sources like Fox News, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Post. Anyway, you keep feigning outrage over something no one said or even implied in an effort to appear to have the moral highground. |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Political program aside, the types of individual you find supporting the Tea Party are complete loons. A bit like the types of people you find supporting UKIP or the right-wing of the Conservative Party.
As inidividuals they're just total nutters. It's almost impossible to have any kind of reasoned discussion with them. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:17 am Post subject: |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgGKxN6KFFE
Bill Maher is scathing: "Only 2% of the people in a movement about taxes named after a tax revolt have the slightest idea what's going on with taxes."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU_mMwCNl0M
Garofalo condemns the racism: "They're not just honest protesters. They were indeed motivated a lot by racism. You saw some of those signs, did you not? And if they're upset about fiscal imprudence where were they for the last 8 years?" and "If you don't want to admit the truth about the racist element, then I would say you are in deep denial."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWs6g3L3fkU
Chomsky says to look deeper: "These are people with very real grievances. The grievances are justified. They've been shafted for 30 years. They give the impression of being hardworking, serious people who think they're been doing everything right. They've been doing what they're supposed to do. They're hardworking, god-fearing, patriotic, gun-carrying Americans. How come their lives are so crumby?" and "So I think it's completely wrong to ridicule them." and "I presume they're sincere." and "People have genuine grievances. They're not getting answers. The answers they are getting are not only crazy but extremely dangerous, so the right response is to ask ourselves why are we failing to organize these people?" |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
I get the impression that none of you actually spend any time reading the various sites, blogs etc of the Tea Party members. You instead absorb your opinion from the hostile establishment media.
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Or we accidently end up at one of their rallies. I've come across two or three and yes, they're generally all a bunch of ignorant hicks. Not necessarily racist, just ignorant. So no, I don't tend to read their blogs becauase I really don't care to read the thoughts and opinions of people who equate Obama with Hitler and Mao.
And ok Mises, let's say for arguments sake, the Tea Party "leaders" (whoever they might be) don't believe or support that hyperbole. Alas, a huge chunk of their supporters do and those "leaders" don't seem to distance themselves from those silly people whatsoever. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: |
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Bill Maher and Chomsky. Mhm. Garofalo too.
| Quote: |
| Political program aside, the types of individual you find supporting the Tea Party are complete loons |
| Quote: |
| As inidividuals they're just total nutters. It's almost impossible to have any kind of reasoned discussion with them. |
| Quote: |
| they're generally all a bunch of ignorant hicks. |
None of you have any idea what you're talking about. You have allowed a hostile establishment to mold your opinion. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:22 am Post subject: |
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So, what are they concerned about? The deficit. Why didn't they whine about the deficit/debt under Bush? The Ron Paul faction did. Also, the deficit is about a trillion dollars higher now.
The proper way to look at them is the beginning of the divorce between traditional limited government conservatives, neo-con war mongers and the religious right.
There have been surveys of them and they are 3/4 college educated, earn above the median and are primarily concerned with the economy. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| The proper way to look at them is the beginning of the divorce between traditional limited government conservatives, neo-con war mongers and the religious right. |
If such a divorce actually occurs, then yes, that will be a totally valid viewpoint. If, on the other hand, Republicans get back into office, go back to business as usual, and all this outrage vanishes, then it will be clear they were nothing more than dupes riled up by Fox News and the Republican Right all along. Time will tell. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| If, on the other hand, Republicans get back into office, go back to business as usual, and all this outrage vanishes, then it will be clear they were nothing more than dupes riled up by Fox News and the Republican Right all along. |
The Republicans will get back in office and will continue to behave as their paymasters want. About 50% of the Tea Party will melt away with the Ron Paul types left.
The divorce will take a long time. I'd rather it happened yesterday. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
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| If, on the other hand, Republicans get back into office, go back to business as usual, and all this outrage vanishes, then it will be clear they were nothing more than dupes riled up by Fox News and the Republican Right all along. |
The Republicans will get back in office and will continue to behave as their paymasters want. About 50% of the Tea Party will melt away with the Ron Paul types left.
The divorce will take a long time. I'd rather it happened yesterday. |
There are no divorces in American politics, merely separations. We have a two-party system. The ugly reality is that either the Tea Party redefines the Republican Party or reconciles with it.
However, the Tea Party is evidence that many Republicans do not even support the Republican establishment. They are much more than mere dupes riled up by Fox News. |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Bill Maher and Chomsky. Mhm. Garofalo too.
| Quote: |
| Political program aside, the types of individual you find supporting the Tea Party are complete loons |
| Quote: |
| As inidividuals they're just total nutters. It's almost impossible to have any kind of reasoned discussion with them. |
| Quote: |
| they're generally all a bunch of ignorant hicks. |
None of you have any idea what you're talking about. You have allowed a hostile establishment to mold your opinion. |
Gotta agree with mises here. The bigotry shown here is outstanding.
They disagree with your base political philosophies. You have to man-up and accept that fundamentally disagreeing with someone is neither insanity, ignorance, nor bad. It's natural.
Demeaning someone doesn't in any way address their argument. In fact, it just makes you look like an asshole. With all due respect the quoted posters who are otherwise fine company. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: |
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This modern "Tea Party" movement was already underway more than thirty years ago. It was and is about taxes, spending, deficits ... it was and is based on the original Boston Tea Party ... and on April 15 and 16 in 1982 the "Tea Party" tax protesters in Washington DC were covered on local and nationwide TV and part of a tax protest song was played with the words:
�Oh, Mr. Taxman, it�s time you set us free,
�cause what you call taxation is what I call larceny �
We�re going to have a party and we�ll all drink Boston Tea,
but, this time it�s the taxman that we�ll throw into the sea.�
It's taken a long time for anyone to notice. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| .38 Special wrote: |
Demeaning someone doesn't in any way address their argument. In fact, it just makes you look like an asshole. With all due respect the quoted posters who are otherwise fine company. |
Ok, fine, would you argue with the following person?
Friend of friend is at a Tea Party rally, approaches woman who has a sign that says, "Obama=Hitler."
Him: Excuse me, do you really believe that Obama is the same as Hitler?
Her: Yes, of course
Him: So Obama's actions are as bad as killing 6 million Jews?
Her: Oh, no... He's much worse!
Excuse me for having contempt for such a person. And like I said, I've been at a couple of these rallies (by accident). The movement is full of loons.
Yes, as HW and Fox have noted, the Tea Party has legit concerns. And as Fox said, the question is: will this movement remain or dissapear when the GOP becomes the majority again?
We bash the movement because most of its supporters were quiet when Bush was spending money like crazy. We bash them because they were silent when we invaded Iraq. We roll our eyes because they are more vocal against health care reform than Afghanistan. And yes, I know Ron Paul does not support a boost of force in Afghanistan. Rand Paul doesn't even touch the subject on his website.
He is quite anti-immigrantion though. How libertarian he is. An electric fence along the border? Helicopter stations to patrol it? Yeah, sounds like a decrease in spending to me! If that isn't more big gov't, I don't know what is. That is just more BS that doesn't resolve the immigration problem whatsoever. Same ol' same ol' political grandstanding.
And he sounds like Bush when it comes to taxes. Lowering taxes is a high priority. Sounds higher than cutting spending.
I pick on the man simply because he is the most famous candidate the Tea Party people are promoting.
And they disagree with my base political philosphy? Yes, they don't have sound policy ideas for the most part. And if you don't believe me, read Rand Paul's website and don't tell me it is rather pathetic and lean on details. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Bill Maher and Chomsky. Mhm. Garofalo too.
| Quote: |
| Political program aside, the types of individual you find supporting the Tea Party are complete loons |
| Quote: |
| As inidividuals they're just total nutters. It's almost impossible to have any kind of reasoned discussion with them. |
| Quote: |
| they're generally all a bunch of ignorant hicks. |
None of you have any idea what you're talking about. You have allowed a hostile establishment to mold your opinion. |
Well, note that Chomsky doesn't agree with people like Maher or Garofalo who condemn the Tea Partyers. For the record, I think Chomsky's right.
I'd like to believe the Tea Party Movement is a sign of hope for democracy in the US, and that they'll help take back Washington from the lobbyists. I mean at least it shows people care. Just hope the loons in the movement aren't in the driving seat. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
I'd like to believe the Tea Party Movement is a sign of hope for democracy in the US, and that they'll help take back Washington from the lobbyists. I mean at least it shows people care. Just hope the loons in the movement aren't in the driving seat. |
I agree with this completely, although lobbyists won't be going anywhere. Just the nature of the beast. |
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