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Feeling the Hate in New York
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caniff

Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Feeling the Hate in New York

Fox wrote:

The Holocaust has no significance in discourse.

It seems not everyone has got that memo quite yet. On the plus side, though, the Celtics have tied up their playoff series against Lebron and the Cavs at 2-2.

Hope springs eternal.

thomas pars

Joined: 29 Jan 2009

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject:

It's ironic that the only ones acting like Nazis are the Israelis.

.38 Special

Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Feeling the Hate in New York

mises wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R611drTEHPA

I eagerly await Krugman, Frank Rich, Naomi Klein, Soros, Ed Shultz and the NY Times editorial board to begin shouting about this Matza Ball Party in NYC and the hate therein immediately.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/dennis_prager/article/when_jews_on_the_left_see_americans_on_the_right_as_nazis_20100504/

Quote:

When Jews on the Left See Americans on the Right as Nazis

BY DENNIS PRAGER

�There should be absolutely no division when it comes to condemning the use of the Holocaust and Holocaust imagery for domestic political purposes.�
� ADL Statement

It is becoming increasingly common for Jews on the Left to depict Americans on the Right as Nazis and to compare conservative policies to the Holocaust.

Here are a few examples:

Liberal Jewish columnist Frank Rich of The New York Times wrote recently that Tea Partiers had engaged in a �small-scale mimicry of Kristallnacht.� The November 1938 Kristallnacht (�Night of the Broken Glass�), with its murdered Jews, broken and vandalized Jewish businesses and homes, and burned-down synagogues, is widely considered to be the opening act of the Holocaust.

This past September, another Jewish liberal, Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.), referring to Congress not having passed health care legislation, said on the floor of Congress: �I apologize to the dead and their families that we haven�t voted sooner to end this holocaust in America.� In Grayson�s view, 12 percent of Americans not having health insurance constitutes a �holocaust.�

Another liberal Jewish commentator for The New York Times, Linda Greenhouse, likened the situation of illegal immigrants in Arizona to that of the Jews of Nazi-occupied Denmark. As if being deported to Mexico for illegally entering Arizona is comparable to being sent to Auschwitz for being a Danish Jew.

In the same vein, liberal Jewish Congressman Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) said that the Arizona anti-immigration law is �akin to Nazi Germany.�

The liberal Jewish columnist of the Boston Globe, Ellen Goodman, now retired, wrote: �Let�s just say that global warming deniers are now on a par with Holocaust deniers.� If Holocaust-deniers are on the same moral and truth-telling level as global warming deniers, then denying the Holocaust is neither evil nor a lie.

Another Jew on the Left, George Soros, said at the Davos conference in 2007, �America needs to follow the policies it has introduced in Germany. We have to go through a certain de-Nazification process.� As Martin Peretz wrote at the time in The New Republic: �He [Soros] believes that the United States is now a Nazi country. Why else would we have to go through a �certain de-Nazification process�? I defy anybody to interpret the remark differently.�

And referring to the new Arizona anti-illegal immigration law, Seth Meyers of �Saturday Night Live� asked, �Could we all agree that there�s nothing more Nazi than saying, �Show me your papers?� � As it happens, there are quite a few things that are �more Nazi� than being asked in Arizona in 2010 to show one�s identification. How about having your children gassed? Or watching your naked parents forced to dig their graves, shot and buried alive? Or having every single one of your friends and relatives murdered? Or being tortured to death in one of the Nazi concentration camps? The equation of being asked for one�s ID to prove one is in America legally with what the Nazis did to the Jews mocks what the Nazis did to the Jews.

And it is a non sequitur to counter that, for example, some posters at Tea Parties compared President Obama to Hitler (posters that are as morally reprehensible as they are self-destructive). First, my examples were all prominent liberals making the Nazi-conservative equation. There are virtually no equivalently prominent conservative examples. What equally prominent conservative columnists described liberals as Nazis the way Frank Rich and Linda Greenhouse of The New York Times described conservatives? What Republican congressmen have cheapened the �Holocaust� the way Anthony Weiner and Alan Grayson have?

Second, when comparisons of those on the Left to Hitler are made, as in the case of Fox News commentator Glenn Beck, they are always to Hitler�s economic policies � to National Socialism. This is not a defense of these ill-advised comparisons. But if truth matters, it is important to point out that, unlike the liberal comparisons of conservatives to Nazi racism and violence, the conservative comparisons are to Hitler�s takeover of the German economy and state.

So, then, why do Jews on the Left belittle the Holocaust by often calling fellow Americans who are conservative �Nazis� and comparing their policies to the Holocaust?

The answers lie in the rhetoric of the Left and in Jews� fears.

Leftist rhetoric routinely depicts opponents of the Left as bad human beings. Opponents of race-based affirmative action are racists. Opponents of same-sex marriage are homophobes. Opponents of illegal immigration are xenophobes, racists and engaged in Nazism (that is the word Cardinal Roger Mahoney used to describe Arizona�s anti-illegal immigration law). And so on.

But there is an additional explanation for why liberal and Leftist Jews use �Nazi� and �Holocaust� rhetoric to depict conservatives.

Jews, Right or Left, have been seared by the Holocaust. And most, if not all, Jews believe a Holocaust could happen again � hardly an idiosyncratic belief given Iranian dictator Mahmoud Ahmadinejad�s declared aim of annihilating the Jewish state.

Where liberal and conservative Jews differ is where each group thinks the greatest danger to the Jews lies. Jews on the Left are certain that the greatest threats to Jews come from the Right. Conservative and centrist Jews believe that dangers to the Jews can come from the Left, from the Right, from Islam, from a renewal of Christian anti-Semitism, indeed from anywhere, but that at this moment the world�s Left is far more an enemy of the Jewish people than the world�s, not to mention America�s, Right.

Finally, what Jews who compare conservatives to Nazis do is provide moral cover for non-Jews to do the same. If Frank Rich writes that the Tea Parties had a Kristallnacht, why should a non-Jew who hates conservatives not say the same thing?

But the consequence is that more and more people will come to think of the Night of Broken Glass in 1938 as no worse than a Tea Party rally and deportations of Jews to Auschwitz as no worse than deporting an illegal immigrant back to his home in Mexico.

If the ADL is serious about condemning misuse of the Holocaust, it should send public letters to Jews who do it. And the Jews who do it happen to all be on the Left.

I am increasingly aware of this and outraged by it.

thomas pars wrote:

It's ironic that the only ones acting like Nazis are the Israelis.

Generally, when jumping onto a popular bandwagon, it is prudent to join one that is not blatantly derided by present company.

But thank you for the drive-by Israeli-hate. Haven't had that in a while.

flakfizer

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:00 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Leftist rhetoric routinely depicts opponents of the Left as bad human beings. Opponents of race-based affirmative action are racists. Opponents of same-sex marriage are homophobes. Opponents of illegal immigration are xenophobes, racists and engaged in Nazism (that is the word Cardinal Roger Mahoney used to describe Arizona�s anti-illegal immigration law). And so on.

Indeed. I have noticed this for some time, now.

chellovek

Joined: 29 Feb 2008

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject:

flakfizer wrote:

Quote:

Indeed. I have noticed this for some time, now.

I agree with you but the right-wing also has it's own set of words to slander opponents with.

Both as bad as each other in my view.

.38 Special

Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject:

chellovek wrote:

flakfizer wrote:

Quote:

Indeed. I have noticed this for some time, now.

I agree with you but the right-wing also has it's own set of words to slander opponents with.

Both as bad as each other in my view.

STFU communist Wink

chellovek

Joined: 29 Feb 2008

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject:

.38 Special wrote:

chellovek wrote:

flakfizer wrote:

Quote:

Indeed. I have noticed this for some time, now.

I agree with you but the right-wing also has it's own set of words to slander opponents with.

Both as bad as each other in my view.

STFU communist Wink

Hahaha!

Jeonmunka

Joined: 05 Oct 2009

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:34 am Post subject:

I'd rather my life be dictated by soft-spoken men with beards who promote cute alien creatures than by bald-headed white dudes who rule everything they see at rifle-point.

Reggie

Joined: 21 Sep 2009

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:24 am Post subject:

What I think is lame is the reaction of many Jews to our new Miss USA, who happens to be Arab. http://www.thejidf.org/2010/05/hezbollah-supporting-rima-fakih.html http://www.debbieschlussel.com/22000/donald-trump-dhimmi-miss-hezbollah-wins-miss-usa-was-contest-rigged-for-muslima-hezbollah-supporter-miss-oklahomas-great-arizona-immigration-answer/

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject:

Quote:

No, it�s not �just another beauty pageant.� Donald Trump, Muslims (who mostly support Islamic terrorist groups, like Hezbollah, which features many of Fakih�s close relatives as top officials), and even Barack Obama will exploit this as propaganda for Islam. Mark my word.

Exploit this as propaganda for Islam how? "My fellow Americans, let me be perfectly clear: much like our own women, Arabic females are also quite attractive in the eyes of many." That's not propaganda, it's just a fact.

Why does everything have to be about terrorism?

.38 Special

Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject:

Fox wrote:

Quote:

"I'd totally hit that Very Happy

... but only if she covers her hair, face, arms, legs, ankles and wrists, or else I will splash her face with acid and then behead her on the Internet."

-- Hezbollah

Not really. But you know they're thinking it!

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:06 pm Post subject:

Well, it would seem that Mr. Newt Gingrich feels Nazi comparisons are appropriate. More than just a passing comment like the liberal comments Mr. Prager whines at length about, this is a focused argument in a published book.

Quote:

� pp. 48-49 Gingrich quotes David Horowitz arguing that the great atrocities of the modern era, whether from Nazis or Communists, were committed by people who believe in a �future that would save mankind.� Gingrich uses Horowitz�s quote to draw a comparison to �the current leaders of the Democratic Party.�

� pp. 295-296 argues that �the Left� is pursuing an �international strategy to take away� Second Amendment rights to own firearms. Gingrich writes that if Hitler had not disarmed �Jews and other anti-Nazi groups,� then the �Holocaust would have been virtually impossible to implement.�

� pp. 268-269 says that �Marxism, Nazism, and Fascism� each �required the use of a powerful, centralized state authority� where �those who resisted were eliminated,� �religion was enemy number one,� and �religious texts� were replaced with �nationalist propaganda in schools.� Gingrich then writes that �there are many parallels between the anti-religious governments of the twentieth century and the anti-religious elite of the United States in the twenty-first.�

Hell, Nazi Germany, Nazi, and Naziism even have their own entries in his books index, for easy Nazi-comparison searching! He throws in comparisons with the Stalin and Mao regimes on top of the Hitler ones.

Quote:

Second, when comparisons of those on the Left to Hitler are made, as in the case of Fox News commentator Glenn Beck, they are always to Hitler�s economic policies � to National Socialism. This is not a defense of these ill-advised comparisons. But if truth matters, it is important to point out that, unlike the liberal comparisons of conservatives to Nazi racism and violence, the conservative comparisons are to Hitler�s takeover of the German economy and state.

Gingrich clearly goes beyond Nazi Germany's economic policies in this book. He talks about the right to bear arms (implying that any attempt to reduce gun rights is opening the way to an American Holocaust), he talks about anti-religious sentiment (implying secular government is tantamount to Nazi totalitarianism), and he he talks about the education system (implying that like Nazi Germany the current administration is trying to brainwash students). And he's pretty much the voice of the Republican Party on this matter.

Dennis Prager is a prime example of the hypocrisy that is devouring American conservatism. If he has an issue with the Holocaust, the Nazis, and so forth being used in discourse, that's fine. But if he's going to whine about occasional comments from Liberals while ignoring systematic arguments of a similar nature made by conservatives (he says he's not trying to defend such comparisons, but then he goes on to defend such comparisons), then he's just as much trying to use the Holocaust and the Nazis for political gain as anyone else, if not moreso.

And just to be clear, I am totally indifferent to Gingrich's Nazi references. Let him call the Obama Administration Nazis all he likes, it just highlights how out-of-touch with reality he is as far as I'm concerned.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject:

Abe Foxman, National Director of the Anti-Defamation League, on the Arizona immigration law:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abraham-h-foxman/arizona-law-endangers-ame_b_560223.html

Quote:

There is no harmony and peace -- especially in Arizona. Instead, there is hate, fear, and xenophobia.

Of course, the Arizona law was not enacted in a vacuum. The immigration debate has become a flashpoint for racists, white supremacists, neo-Nazis and other extremists who blame immigrants for all of our nation�s problems.

http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Holocaust/20100503-Op-ed+JTA.htm

Quote:

Let's be clear: Arizona's new law is misguided, bigoted, biased and flies in the face of the Constitution and federal immigration law. It is un-American and must be challenged at every opportunity.

Abe Foxman on Pat Buchanan moaning about no WASP's on the SCOTUS:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201005140064

Quote:

...recidivist anti-Semite who doesn�t miss an opportunity to show his fangs.

Abe Foxman on Israel's brutal and frankly hateful, intolerant, xenophobic mass murder:

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/IslME_62/5773_62.htm

Quote:

As the international community is engaged in a biased rush to judgment against Israel and a diplomatic lynching, now is the time for the United States to firmly stand with the Jewish state and its people. The U.S. must show the world that it not only supports Israel's right to defend its borders and citizens against terrorism, but that it supports Israel's right to protect itself from people who pretend to be "peace activists," and parade under the guise of humanitarians while supporting Hamas and violently attacking Israeli military personnel.

Israel's treatment of immigrants:

http://palestinenote.com/cs/blogs/news/archive/2010/05/27/migrant-workers-urge-israel-stop-mass-child-deportation.aspx

Quote:

Tel Aviv - More than 6,000 demonstrators gathered in the Tel Aviv Museum courtyard Tuesday night to protest Israel's planned deportation of some 1,200 children of undocumented migrant laborers.

Abe Foxman on Israel's treatment of immigrants:

*crickets*

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:46 pm Post subject:

mises wrote:

A

Israel's treatment of immigrants:

http://palestinenote.com/cs/blogs/news/archive/2010/05/27/migrant-workers-urge-israel-stop-mass-child-deportation.aspx

Quote:

Tel Aviv - More than 6,000 demonstrators gathered in the Tel Aviv Museum courtyard Tuesday night to protest Israel's planned deportation of some 1,200 children of undocumented migrant laborers.

Abe Foxman on Israel's treatment of immigrants:

*crickets*

Migrant laborers are not (strictly speaking) immigrants.

asylum seeker

Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject:

What about when those on the right use Nazi imagery to describe the Obama administration:

Like tea party protestors:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/06/anti-obama-protester-comp_n_252815.html

And Rush Limbaugh:

Quote:

Limbaugh then proceeded to describe the ways Democrats are like Nazis -- a list that included their dedication to animal rights and their opposition to smoking and pollution.
Well, the Nazis were against big business -- they hated big business. And of course we all know that they were opposed to Jewish capitalism. They were insanely, irrationally against pollution. They were for two years mandatory voluntary service to Germany. They had a whole bunch of make-work projects to keep people working, one of which was the Autobahn. They were against cruelty and vivisection of animals, but in the radical sense of devaluing human life, they banned smoking. They were totally against that. They were for abortion and euthanasia of the undesirables, as we all know, and they were for cradle-to-grave nationalized healthcare.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/08/rush-limbaugh-compares-new-health-care-logo-to-nazi-swastika.html

Or Newt Gingrich:

Quote:

Wallace: You also write this on the screen: "The secular socialist machine represents as great a threat to America as Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union once did." Mr. Speaker, respectfully, isn't that wildly over the top?

Gingrich: No, not if by America you mean....Just listen to President Obama's language. He gets to decide who earns how much. He gets to decide when it's too much.

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/newt-gingrich-calls-president-obama-naz

Or Glenn Beck:

Quote:

Beck has repeatedly compared Obama to Hitler, claimed his policies are leading America toward Nazi Germany

"This is what Hitler did with the SS." Discussing Obama's call for a "civilian national security force" -- which was a reference to expanding the foreign service, AmeriCorps, and the Peace Corps -- Beck said on the August 27 edition of his Fox News program: "I'm finding this -- this is the hardest part to connect to. Because this is -- I mean, look, you know, David [Bellavia, former Army staff sergeant], what you just said is, you said, 'I'm not comparing' -- but you are. I mean, this is what Hitler did with the SS. He had his own people. He had the brownshirts and then the SS. This is what Saddam Hussein -- so -- but you are comparing that. And I -- I mean, I think America would have a really hard time getting their arms around that."

http://mediamatters.org/research/200910130061

It's OK when they do it, right?

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