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Obama: Life Without Trial

 
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:04 am    Post subject: Obama: Life Without Trial Reply with quote

Obama: Life Imprisonment Without Trial

Written by Thomas R. Eddlem
Saturday, 29 May 2010 11:30


President Obama's Guantanamo Review Task Force has �unanimously� concluded that 48 detainees at Guantanamo should be detained indefinitely � in essence, a life sentence � without trial, including lifetime detention for some detainees who, the commission concluded, hadn't committed any crimes that �constitute a chargeable offense in either a federal court or military commission.� The Washington Post revealed May 28 that the Task Force decided to repatriate the majority of the 240 detainees they investigated, while other detainees should be tried in criminal court or by �military commissions� the Obama administration would reconstitute.

Most Guantanamo detainees have already languished in prison for eight years without trial, and the commission � consisting of officials from the intelligence, military, Defense, Homeland Security, State and Justice departments � concluded the following of the 48 detainees who would remain in prison without trial indefinitely:

Generally these detainees cannot be prosecuted because either there is presently insufficient admissible evidence to establish the detainee's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in either a federal court or military commission, or the detainee's conduct does not constitute a chargeable offense in either a federal court or military commission.

In other words, the Obama administration officials think the detainees might have committed a crime but can't be sure, or they are sure the detainees didn't commit a crime and want to keep them in prison for life anyway.

The untrammeled power of government to throw people into prison without a trial by jury was a key grievance the Founding Fathers cited in their reason for separating from Britain, charging the British with �depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of trial by jury� in the Declaration of Independence. Therefore, the Founding Fathers sought to require both due process of law for all those arrested in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

No person shall be ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

And they also guaranteed an unqualified right to trial by jury in the Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

continued at link
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is beyond ridiculous.

Quote:
Generally these detainees cannot be prosecuted because either there is presently insufficient admissible evidence to establish the detainee's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in either a federal court or military commission, or the detainee's conduct does not constitute a chargeable offense in either a federal court or military commission.


If insufficient evidence exists -- or even moreso in the cases where their conduct isn't a chargeable offense -- then on what basis did they round these people up in the first place?

Keeping these people locked up is unacceptable. They need to be released, even if they end up unfortunately acting in a harmful fashion in the future. Locking people up because we vaguely suspect they might do something wrong just isn't okay, and it's another example of activity that can breed radicalism in the citizens of other nations.
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moosehead



Joined: 05 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chances are they know something someone doesn't want anyone else to know. Shocked
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

moosehead wrote:
chances are they know something someone doesn't want anyone else to know. Shocked

And that is a good reason to keep people licked up forever without trial??? Question
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moosehead



Joined: 05 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
moosehead wrote:
chances are they know something someone doesn't want anyone else to know. Shocked

And that is a good reason to keep people licked up forever without trial??? Question


of course not Shocked

just sayin' the reasons they give aren't always what the real reasons are.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But in our open democratic system, aren't those reasons supposed to see the light of day? Otherwise, it becomes a system of autocracy.
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moosehead



Joined: 05 May 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for someone so enlightened, you appear surprisingly naive.

the military has run things since time immemorial; and it's the rich who rule the military.

when someone does the bidding of a powerful person, one understands there's a pact that's been made. to go against that pact is to sign one's own death warrant - or in some instances, one's life imprisonment.

funny, tho, even when certain individuals do try to expose the underlying hold on power, they are often labeled conspiracy theorists or otherwise discredited.

why else keep someone locked up without even access to a lawyer? think about it - seriously - even Jeffrey Dahlmer had a lawyer. Shocked
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are missing the point which is not to merely 'understand' what is going on, but to effect the change necessary to correct the injustice. That is done by exposing it, and that is what is being done here.
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moosehead



Joined: 05 May 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
You are missing the point which is not to merely 'understand' what is going on, but to effect the change necessary to correct the injustice. That is done by exposing it, and that is what is being done here.


exposing it to whom exactly? people who already know and don't care? or who might even be complicit? or those who don't want to know?

please don't misunderstand - my point is simply that the older I get, the more I understand that what at first (in my younger years) appeared to be a few bad people doing wrong seems more and more like just the opposite - that the few good people doing right are slipping further and further away - that the wrong being done is not much different than the way it's always been.

the people have always fought back and will continue to do so, I'm sure. but sometimes I honestly feel it's a losing battle. chalk it up to seeing our beloved earth hemorraging helplessly away, or the amount of depleted uranium that's already been dumped into our atmosphere, or the senseless wars we can't seem to stop participating in.

for goodness sakes - there are extremists along the U.S.-Mexican border comparing current actions with those of N. Korea as to how the U.S. should act when someone crosses illegally. N. Korea!! are we seriously supposed to start behaving like that lost-soul of a country now? to hold it up as some kind of role model for border security??

good god almighty - what has become of humanity?

that's all I'm sayin' Shocked
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