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phaedrus
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.
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 Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:16 pm Post subject: 1.8 to 2.2 million won NEGOTIABLE SALARY |
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I dislike job postings that specify "negotiable salary" within a certain range. Why don't they just come out and say teachers will be paid something like 1.8 to 2.2 depending on education and experience. This is the way professional schools list.
"Negotiable" seems to say to me:
"We want to pay you 1.8, but if you twist our arm and fight with us we might up it some, but then again we might just not hire you. Of course, even if we do pay you 2.2 we are going to make it seem like we are being nice and doing you a favor and make you feel you don't deserve it."
Better even than only saying "based on education and experience" would be something such as:
-Beginner teachers with only a BA will get 1.8 million.
-Those with a years experience teaching or certification will get 1.9.
-Those with two years teaching experience or a Masters will get 2.0 to 2.1.
-Those with over two years experience and a Masters will get at least 2.2 million.
Of course I think 2.0 should be starting, and those with Masters degrees should get up to 2.4 to 2.6, but the salary range of 1.8 to 2.2 is quoted from a recent job ad I saw, and they say merely--- "negotiable". |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Negotiable could also mean class size, working hours, and outside the classroom duties. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| Negotiable could also mean class size, working hours, and outside the classroom duties. |
He was talking about "negotiable salary." Then he went on to talk about the negotiable part of the above phrase in quotes. NOT negotiable as a word by itself. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| He was talking about "negotiable salary." Then he went on to talk about the negotiable part of the above phrase in quotes. NOT negotiable as a word by itself. |
He was assuming that "negotiable" was based entirely on brinkmanship, while I was saying that they may offer additional cash for doing additional services. The only solution to know for certain is to phone up each and every school and ask exactly why they are offering a "negotiable salary".
Though it would be quite silly to conclude that every school offers a salary range simple to encourage brinkmanship negotiations as was suggested.
Last edited by Gord on Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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"negotiable" means basically, we're paying you the lowest tier. We might suggest paying you more after 6 months if you prove yourself a good teacher, but this is up to us and our highly dubious and unreasonable criteria.
Alternatively, it can mean if you're a hard nut and fight us, bluff and argue your way to maybe 2.0, we'll reluctantly give it to you, but hold it against you for a year, and if you're anything less than a superhero miracle worker, we'll find some way to shaft you anyway, to get our money back... |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| He was talking about "negotiable salary." Then he went on to talk about the negotiable part of the above phrase in quotes. NOT negotiable as a word by itself. |
He was assuming that "negotiable" was based entirely on brinkmanship, while I was saying that they may offer additional cash for doing additional services. The only solution to know for certain is to phone up each and every school and ask exactly why they are offering a "negotiable salary".
Though it would be quite silly to conclude that every school offers a salary range simple to encourage brinkmanship negotiations as was suggested. |
But was that what he was suggesting? I read his conclusion as schools are offering a negotiable salary in the hopes that they can get people (newbies) say to work for a lower than average wage. If the average wage is two million (let's assume for the purposes of this discussion it is) and they offer 1.8 million and the person takes it, then they've saved 200,000 won a month right there.
As for additional duties,such as prep, cleaning the classroom and doing stuff outside the classroom such as field trips are just stuff you would normally do anyways. I doubt many people here get additional compensation for these. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| But was that what he was suggesting? I read his conclusion as schools are offering a negotiable salary in the hopes that they can get people (newbies) say to work for a lower than average wage. If the average wage is two million (let's assume for the purposes of this discussion it is) and they offer 1.8 million and the person takes it, then they've saved 200,000 won a month right there. |
A school would be far better served if they offered a job for 1.8 and then only dealt with people applying and happy to accept 1.8. Saying they are willing to go as high as 2.2 only encourages people to strike higher. There are few people who would walk in and say "sure, you've stated you'll pay more, but I want the lowest amount you've offered."
| Quote: |
| As for additional duties,such as prep, cleaning the classroom and doing stuff outside the classroom such as field trips are just stuff you would normally do anyways. I doubt many people here get additional compensation for these. |
The point being that perhaps many of the schools in question are being clear about that up front. I've had offers where they were two-tier like that, so they aren't unknowns. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| But was that what he was suggesting? I read his conclusion as schools are offering a negotiable salary in the hopes that they can get people (newbies) say to work for a lower than average wage. If the average wage is two million (let's assume for the purposes of this discussion it is) and they offer 1.8 million and the person takes it, then they've saved 200,000 won a month right there. |
A school would be far better served if they offered a job for 1.8 and then only dealt with people applying and happy to accept 1.8. Saying they are willing to go as high as 2.2 only encourages people to strike higher. There are few people who would walk in and say "sure, you've stated you'll pay more, but I want the lowest amount you've offered." |
True but somewhat unrelated to the O.P as his school does have a varying wage scale. As for those "few people" they might be willing to settle for the "lowest amount" in return for other considerations. Like a 18 hour work week, or a month of vacation. One foreign teacher at my current school actually did this. He asked for a salary of 1.5 (which was lower than the mimimum amount they were advertising.
Of course they were happy to jump at this...but then he said "I only want to work 18 hours a week and NO kindergarden." And that's what he did for two years. |
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phaedrus
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
"negotiable" means basically, we're paying you the lowest tier. We might suggest paying you more after 6 months if you prove yourself a good teacher, but this is up to us and our highly dubious and unreasonable criteria.
Alternatively, it can mean if you're a hard nut and fight us, bluff and argue your way to maybe 2.0, we'll reluctantly give it to you, but hold it against you for a year, and if you're anything less than a superhero miracle worker, we'll find some way to shaft you anyway, to get our money back... |
This is another way of saying what I was trying to say. BRAVO! 
(No sarcasm) |
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The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Gord wrote: |
| Negotiable could also mean class size, working hours, and outside the classroom duties. |
He was talking about "negotiable salary." Then he went on to talk about the negotiable part of the above phrase in quotes. NOT negotiable as a word by itself. |
Why do you guys try to argue with Gord of all people about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Don't get me wrong-as much as it irritates the kiwiboy in Gord issuing his corrections, I love it-you'd think they'd have learned by now, Corporal. |
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Toby
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Wedded Bliss
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:10 am Post subject: |
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You know they are going to pay you as little as possible unless you put up a fight.
My boss recently decided that she may cut my pay when I don't teach during my official hours. I protested vehemently and said it was not my fault if SHE didn't have the students. Soon put pay to that I idea when I said I would quit rather than do that.
You know Koreans and money. Fine for them to have it, but it is difficult to get it off them, even when it is owed to you. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:58 am Post subject: |
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I have to disagree with the trend of opinions and side with Gord on this one.
I know of schools and some franchises that advertise negotiable ranges like that for differing schedules:
ie., 1.8 for 30 hours/week, Monday-Friday, or you can work 30hrs/week, Tuesday-Saturday for 2.0, or you can make 2.2 for working 30hrs/week for Monday-Saturday.
PM me if you want proof.
It'd be much easier to contact the school directly and get first hand info on what qualifies their salary range, than to sit back and stew on knee-jerk assumptions. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:02 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, rapier seems to sum up the situation right.
"negotiable" means basically, we're paying you the lowest tier. We might suggest paying you more after 6 months if you prove yourself a good teacher, but this is up to us and our highly dubious and unreasonable criteria. Alternatively, it can mean if you're a hard nut and fight us, bluff and argue your way to maybe 2.0, we'll reluctantly give it to you, but hold it against you for a year, and if you're anything less than a superhero miracle worker, we'll find some way to shaft you anyway, to get our money back... |
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