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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
Yeah, yeah. I get it. You have respect for murder. I, on the other hand, do not. I have respect for the rule of law.
| riverboy wrote: |
| My question to you is; Did you feel any sumpathy for Jeffry Dahmer when you heard he ws killed in prison? |
As the man was not sentenced to be executed, yes, I do have sympathy for the man. I also agree with the District Attorney:
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| The District Attorney who prosecuted Dahmer cautioned against turning Scarver into a folk hero, noting that Dahmer's death was still murder. |
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Not only that, but Dahmer's murder, which occurred in general population, was a lost opportunity, not only for those attempting to understand how and why such cases occur, but for those who truly care about children enough to want to be able to identify, treat, and prevent the next Dahmer.
This descent into bloodlust is rather troubling. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| riverboy wrote: |
Here's an interesting study regarding recidivism.
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Studies show treatment to stop Child Molesters and Rapists is not working, initially yes, but as time passes, those sexual urges come back, resulting in reoffending with no looking back. The Pro and Cons who treat and cure versus those who wish to permanently incarcerate seem try to disprove each other's theories and studies.
Is there cure? Mental Health experts thinks so! Communities and victim's advocates think not! |
http://www.nowpublic.com/press/graph-showing-deviants-likely-reoffend |
Not all studies are equally valid. Compare that one small Canadian study with the US Dept. of Justice's comprehensive study of nearly 10,000 sex offenders released in 1994:
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| An estimated 3.3 percent of the 4,300 released child molesters were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years. |
Also, politicians find this phony issue useful to stir up fear-mongering:
Recidivism Studies Expose Fraud
Amanda Rogers
September 13, 2007
Multiple State's Sex Offender Recidivism Studies Expose Fraud Upon The American Public By Lawmakers And Mainstream Media
We've all heard the catch phrases: 'They cannot be cured'�, 'They have
the highest recidivism rates out of any other type of criminal'� and 'Its
only a matter of time before they re-offend again.'
We hear these types of claims, stated as fact again and again by
mainstream media and politicians. Indeed, even when lawmakers pass new laws pertaining to sex offenders these phrases are found again and again throughout the minutes of legislative hearings across the country.
Numerous studies which have been bought and paid for by the American
people tell a much different story however. In fact, these studies clearly demonstrate that the exact opposite is true.
Why are they all lying? The short answer: money, ratings and control.
Fear has always been a great motivator throughout history to get people
to submit to things they would not ordinarily submit to. The laws that
have been created under the guise of protecting the public undoubtedly
have a very chilling effect on the Constitution and create a springboard
for further abuses which will ultimately affect us all.
Instead of using the information contained in the studies - which may very
well hold the key to making a significant reduction in the number of sex
crimes, they create sound-bites and catch-phrases in an attempt to scare
the public for votes, ratings, and corporate profit - all at the expense
of our children. If the laws they have created were working (which they
are not) Dru Sjodin, Jessica Lunsford, and Carlie Brucia would still be
alive today.
Most if not all studies clearly define which sub-categories of offenders
pose the most risk, make up the bulk of recidivism and pose the greatest
danger to society. Yet, instead of focusing on this specific sub-group
of offenders, and tailoring legislation and attention of those most
dangerous, they lump everyone convicted of a sex crime together. As a
result, the American public is mistakenly led to believe that all are
highly dangerous ticking time bombs. IF this were true, given the fact
that there are over 600,000 registered sex offenders in this country, we
could have a 24 hour news channel devoted to nothing but repeat sex
offenders and never cover them all. The reason registered sex offenders who do commit another sex offense make the evening news is because it is RARE!
Lawmakers and the media are not only defrauding the American public,
they are also effectively doing society and children a huge disservice -
creating an unnecessary and overblown climate of fear and anxiety, while
continuing to put America's children at risk.
Take a look at some of the findings from these studies. Links have been
provided so that the studies can be viewed in their entirety. Pay close
attention to the number of 'new sex crimes'� committed by registered sex
offenders. This is quite different from technical violations and failure
to register. We think most readers will be shocked at what these studies
and statistics reveal.
The notion that most sex offences are committed by strangers, that sex offenders have high rates of recidivism, and that treatment does not
work is NOT supported by the extensive and growing body of research
regarding registered sex offenders. Here is a glimpse of what these
studies reveal, which proves that what is happening is the exact
opposite of what the American people are repeatedly being told.
ARIZONA REPORTS A 5.5% RECIDIVISM RATE FOR A NEW SEX CRIME. THIS WAS A FIFTEEN YEAR STUDY DONE BETWEEN 1984 AND 1998
http://www.azcorrections.gov/adc/faq/recidivism.asp
WYOMING REPORTS RECIDIVISM RATES BETWEEN 2% AND 7.5%
THEIR STUDY COVERS A FIVE YEAR PERIOD BETWEEN 2000 AND 2005
http://legisweb.state.wy.us/PubResearch/2005/05RM078r.pdf
MINNESOTA REPORTS AFTER AN EIGHT YEAR FOLLOW UP A RECIDIVISM RATE OF 10%. THEY ARE CAREFUL TO NOTE WHICH CATEGORY OF OFFENDERS POSE THE HIGHEST RISK, THOSE BEING INDIVIDUALS WHOSE VICTIM WAS A STRANGER.
http://www.doc.state.mn.us/documents/04-07SexOffenderReport-Recidivism.pdf
OHIO REPORTS A RECIDIVISM RATE OF 8% AS A RESULT OF THEIR 10 YEAR STUDY. RAPISTS WITH ADULT VICTIMS WERE THE HIGHEST RISK WHILE THOSE CONVICTED OF INCEST WERE THE LOWEST RISK WITH A 7.4% RECIDIVISM RATE.
http://www.drc.state.oh.us/web/Reports/Ten_Year_Recidivism.pdf
To put things in perspective, DUI recidivism hovers around 50%. Given
the high number of fatalities each year caused as a result of drunk
driving accidents, for example, During 2005, 16,885 people in the U.S.
died in alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes.
This does not include victims who become permanently disfigured and/or disabled as a result of DUI related accidents. Many of them are children.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drving.htm
Additionally over 1,400 children die each year at the hands of their own
parents due to abuse and neglect.
Sex crimes are a terrible social ill and there are ways to prevent them.
The knowledge and information that is needed to make effective laws IS
available and we need to demand that our lawmakers acknowledge this
information and start using it effectively.
What kind of politician would ignore vital information and hard evidence
that could effectively protect our children and perpetuate these lies?
Here are a few examples:
"Because of high recidivism rates, Congress can and must do more to
ensure that offenders who could strike again are not roaming our
streets,"� Congresswoman Nita Lowey
"Studies have clearly shown that sexual predators have the highest
recidivism rates," Senator Frank Padavan (R-C, Bellerose)
"With the high-rate of recidivism of sex offenders, the state must have
the ability to provide additional rehabilitation to those who pose a
threat to our communities," Senator John J. Flanagan.
"Studies show that sex offenders are four times more likely to be
rearrested than other criminals." Congressman Vito Fossella (R-NY13)
"Sex offenders are not petty criminals. They prey on our children like
animals, and they will continue to do so unless we stop them. We need to
change the way we track these pedophiles." Former disgraced Republican Senator Mark Foley, FL - accused of soliciting male minors online and who also spearheaded the Adam Walsh Act.
"We know that the recidivism rate of convicted child molesters is
extremely high. When many leave the penitentiary, they continue their
ways against our greatest resource, children,"� Ted Poe, Representative Texas
"There are over 500,000 registered sex offenders across the country, and
statistics have shown that the recidivism rate for those criminals is
high." Representative James F. Sensenbrenner(R) Wisconsin who
spearheaded the Adam Walsh act
"Recidivism rates are alarmingly high" for sexual offenders. Rep. Earl
Pomeroy (D) of North Dakota
"Unlike other criminals, sex offenders pose a unique challenge to law
enforcement and communities due to high recidivism rates."
Representative Anthony D. Weiner NY |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Just because I have sympathy for the victim of a murder, any victim of murder, does not mean I admire the person's acts that led him to prison or that I admire the victim. I simply do not believe murder is justice. But that's quite the dilemma you have going on here: your hero, Scarver, happened to be in prison because he murdered someone. |
He's not my hero; never said it. In fact, I think the guy should be charged with murder. I just have no problem with what he did, and no sympathy for the loss of his life, nor do I realoy care about any lost opportunities for scientific research 
| Quote: |
| An estimated 3.3 percent of the 4,300 released child molesters were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years. |
Three years, fifteen years and twenty-five years quite significant. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| riverboy wrote: |
| He's not my hero; never said it. |
Really? Care to explain your bit about ensuring the molestor is put in general population?
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| In fact, I think the guy should be charged with murder. |
Why? After all, you think he did the right thing. Why, then, punish someone for doing the right thing?
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| I just have no problem with what he did, and no sympathy for the loss of his life, nor do I realoy care about any lost opportunities for scientific research |
You don't care about the loss of life although the persons you think should die haven't killed someone. You posited Dahmer, of course, as an extreme example. But that was after you stated that molestors, all molestors, should be put in general population.
To sum up:
- You admire violent murderers.
- You think violent murderers should be a part of the judicial system.
- You don't care about a human being who is falsely convicted and then murdered in prison.
Quite the ethical system there. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| riverboy wrote: |
| He's not my hero; never said it. In fact, I think the guy should be charged with murder. I just have no problem with what he did, and no sympathy for the loss of his life, nor do I realoy care about any lost opportunities for scientific research |
Riverboy, you also do not care about the children who may be victims of a future Dahmer, either.
Nice. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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The Korean government, as usual, wants to be seen to be cracking down on crime after the obscene leniency of the courts in some shockingly horrific cases. Now they're going too far in the opposite direction with chemical castration and with the new age limits.
Does a 19 year old man who has sex with a 15 year old girl deserve chemical castration? And would the decision be at the discretion of judges who have already shown themselves absurdly out of touch? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Chemical castration should only be done if the convicted agrees, which a few actually do. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Dahmer"s murder was probably a hit paid for by one of the victims family members , not uncommon in prison. Glad the great concern for the 8 year old who was savaged by this man who's rights you are concerned with. Not one mention of her rights, of what she might want done. Ethics bosh! when you forget the child that was injured, dont write of ethical considerations. As for whether he will do this again, how many times do you suppose he did somethng similar and got away with it. these crimes are usually in stages, the offender growing bolder each time. But not to worry what we really should be concerned with is what power we should give the state. Let us not once think of the victims family or the victim. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Dahmer"s murder was probably a hit paid for by one of the victims family members , not uncommon in prison. |
You're making this up.
The rest of your tirade is just as dishonest and has no bearing to the reality of what I or other posters have said in this thread. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Glad the great concern for the 8 year old who was savaged by this man who's rights you are concerned with. |
Being opposed to the murder of a criminal doesn't mean simultaneously having no concern for his victims, rollo.
| rollo wrote: |
| Not one mention of her rights, of what she might want done. |
What she might want done is irrelevant. Justice is about righting wrongs, not doing what particular people want. In fact, the victim and those close to them are often among the worst people to actually decide upon a just resolution.
| rollo wrote: |
| Ethics bosh! when you forget the child that was injured, dont write of ethical considerations. |
No one is forgetting the child that was injured. This is just another emotional tactic used in attempted defense of injustice.
| rollo wrote: |
| Let us not once think of the victims family or the victim. |
Murdering this man didn't help the victim or their family. This isn't about the victim and their family. It's about your bloodlust. |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Really? Care to explain your bit about ensuring the molestor is put in general population?
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I don't think they should get preferential treatment --which they do in Canada-- and waste a good deal of tax dollars. Simple. And what happens to them, happens to them. Simple.
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| Why? After all, you think he did the right thing. Why, then, punish someone for doing the right thing? |
Never said that either. I said that I don't care what happens to them in prison. The important thing is that they are behind bars, never to offend again. That's all I care about.
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You admire violent murderers.
You think violent murderers should be a part of the judicial system.
You don't care about a human being who is falsely convicted and then murdered in prison.
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I think you need to work on your paraphrasing skills.
*I have no problem with those who commit horrible acts of violence meeting their end in a similar manner.
*I think violent murderes should be part of the penal system
I* do care agreat deal about those falsely accused -hence my comment regarding it would be a tragedy- and I feel that the best means to curtail this happening is by giving a similar sentence to anyone found guilty of falsely accusing somone for a crime; a spouse who accuses their ex out of vengence, should get the exact same punishment as the crime they accused the other individual of.
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Riverboy, you also do not care about the children who may be victims of a future Dahmer, either.
Nice.
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Oh the tragedy! Booh hoo I guess this is where I insert this emoticon 
I hardly think that the a detailed study of Jeffry Dahmer would have prevented any future mass rapes/murders. Get real once again, time for the smiley.[list=][/list] |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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riverboy: It seems as though it is you who need to work on paraphrasing skills. Your post above is essentially how I described your earlier posts.
And when you get done on that, take a gander at the constitutional prohibitions on cruel and unusual punishment (for the US) and against torture (for South Korea).
Last edited by CentralCali on Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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edited 'cause I was a jerk
Last edited by ReeseDog on Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:01 am; edited 2 times in total |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:05 am Post subject: |
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Edited because Reese apologized. All is forgotten.
Last edited by CentralCali on Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:21 am Post subject: |
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edited 'cause I was a jerk
Last edited by ReeseDog on Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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