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Wanderlust2010
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: How to get out of a signed contract before leaving for Korea |
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Hello,
Does anyone have advice on how to get out of a signed contract before leaving?
I signed a contract for a school a week ago. I felt really pressured to rush signing the contract and sending off my visa documents because the recruiter told me that they were trying to decide between me and another candidate and that the first person to get their documents sent off would get the job. Gullible, I know.
Since then, I've been doing some real soul searching on whether or not it's the right choice for me, whether it's the right time to leave my home (I have a family member that is terminally ill) and whether I can actually handle it. I've concluded that this is not something I want to do.
As far as I know, the visa process has started but the school has not bought a flight ticket yet.
Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed with telling the recruiter and the school that I no longer want to come to Korea? I know I'm inconveniencing them and that the sooner I tell them, the better. The contract states that they need 40 days notice from the employee to quit. Does this apply if I technically haven't even started the job yet? I consulted with a lawyer and they said that, technically, the school could sue me. Is this true?
Thanks in advance. |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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You're aren't coming to Korea? Fine, call or email your recruiter ASAP and let them know. I will even write you the email.
Dear Mr. Park,
I regret to inform you that I will not be able to take the position at ABC Hogwon. I thank you for your time and effort and good luck to you and the school.
Sincerely,
WL2010 |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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If you aren't in Korea, and don't plan on coming (for the next 12 months) then don't worry. Just contact the recruiter and say that you are backing out.
People do it all the time here (recruiters, schools and teachers). It's common practice here. Don't worry about it. They're not going to sue you from Korea. |
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8 years down
Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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If a helicopter starts hovering over your home late at night and masked ninjas swing down from ropes into your bedroom, don't be surprised if you wake up in Korea, standing in front of a class of nose-pickers, pens in hand.
They take these contracts seriously. You've been warned. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 8 years down wrote: |
If a helicopter starts hovering over your home late at night and masked ninjas swing down from ropes into your bedroom, don't be surprised if you wake up in Japan, standing in front of a class of nose-pickers, pens in hand.
They take these contracts seriously. You've been warned. |
fixed that for you |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 8 years down wrote: |
If a helicopter starts hovering over your home late at night and masked ninjas swing down from ropes into your bedroom, don't be surprised if you wake up in Korea, standing in front of a class of nose-pickers, pens in hand.
They take these contracts seriously. You've been warned. |
ROTFLMAO!!!
Ya, they will drag your sorry butt off to Korea in the middle of the night to come and teach their kindy class.
Realistically there is NO problem and until you actually enter Korea on your E2 the contract is non enforceable.
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8 years down
Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| byrddogs wrote: |
| fixed that for you |
True, I just like the word Ninjas. And I doubt they used helicopters anyway :p |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: Re: How to get out of a signed contract before leaving for K |
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| Wanderlust2010 wrote: |
Hello,
Does anyone have advice on how to get out of a signed contract before leaving?
I signed a contract for a school a week ago. I felt really pressured to rush signing the contract and sending off my visa documents because the recruiter told me that they were trying to decide between me and another candidate and that the first person to get their documents sent off would get the job. Gullible, I know.
Since then, I've been doing some real soul searching on whether or not it's the right choice for me, whether it's the right time to leave my home (I have a family member that is terminally ill) and whether I can actually handle it. I've concluded that this is not something I want to do.
As far as I know, the visa process has started but the school has not bought a flight ticket yet.
Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed with telling the recruiter and the school that I no longer want to come to Korea? I know I'm inconveniencing them and that the sooner I tell them, the better.
The contract states that they need 40 days notice from the employee to quit. Does this apply if I technically haven't even started the job yet?
I consulted with a lawyer and they said that, technically, the school could sue me.
Is this true?
Thanks in advance. |
Your lawyer's counsel is correct. Technically they could sue you. They can sue you for whatever damages you cause by breaking the contract. The contract is enforceable even if you never come to Korea, unless it has other terms that release you from obligation. Once the contract is signed, you are bound by its terms and liable for damages from any breach of contract.
However, if you notify the school immediately, they have only lost a week, so they should be able to replace you quickly. The damages should be little or nothing at all. Your would-have-been bosses have the legal obligation to mitigate the damages by acting quickly to replace you. It is also in their own interest to do the same.
If the damages are small, they will have no incentive to pursue you in any way, as such action would be very expensive and time consuming. If there are no damages they would have no case beyond a token award (say $1) and a "win."
You also have the legal obligation to mitigate damages by notifying them immediately of any intent not to fulfill the contract. It is in your interest to do so. Since you have posted about this here, your obligation is to do so now.
*****
As to the ninja enforcement squad, the chances are essentially zero that any court would order "specific performance" of the contract on your part. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: How to get out of a signed contract before leaving for K |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| [q The contract is enforceable even if you never come to Korea, . |
That depends on the laws of the home country. Certain countries have laws that state if part of the contract is invalid the whole contract is. Moreover if certain provisions of the contract are applicable to Korea it does not necessarily follow they are applicable elsewhere. Not to mention that nearly every one of the hundreds upon hundreds of contracts I've personally reviewed here and elsewhere has at least one if not more illegal clauses in them. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: Re: How to get out of a signed contract before leaving for K |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| [q The contract is enforceable even if you never come to Korea, . |
That depends on the laws of the home country. Certain countries have laws that state if part of the contract is invalid the whole contract is. Moreover if certain provisions of the contract are applicable to Korea it does not necessarily follow they are applicable elsewhere. Not to mention that nearly every one of the hundreds upon hundreds of contracts I've personally reviewed here and elsewhere has at least one if not more illegal clauses in them. |
Actually, there are few contracts with the kind of "illegal" clauses in them that would make the contract invalid. That term generally refers to contracts for illegal purposes: for example, a contract for prostitution, slavery, murder, arson, etc.
The contracts with clauses in them such as housing deposits and deductions for missed days, missed classes or for being late are not illegal at all, as long as they are in the contract (and not imposed outside the contract) and as long as they are only deductions and not penalties ... Although the myth is that such things are illegal, it's another false Dave's myth.
Minor defects in contract drafting, including questionable sections, will NOT invalidate the contract in any of the 7 English speaking countries beyond throwing out the bad section - this being an essential element of contract law.
Finally, any attempt to throw out any portion of the contract would occur during the trial, which means the lawsuit would be under way - and being sued at all is the worst part of nearly every lawsuit - winning is rarely enjoyable - just a relief.
The reason such lawsuits almost never occur - and almost never will - is that the cost is almost always guaranteed to far exceed the damages being sought, and are surely greater than the damages likely to be won, if any. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: How to get out of a signed contract before leaving for K |
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| ontheway wrote: |
[q
Minor defects in contract drafting, including questionable sections, will NOT invalidate the contract in any of the 7 English speaking countries beyond throwing out the bad section - this being an essential element of contract law.
. |
Instead of telling us what you think contract law is, let's go to a source.
http://www.otto-graph.com/samples/3/contractlaw.html
Under the heading "A legal object and purpose" it clearly states that any contract involving fraud (among other things) would be considered invalid. Not just that part of it...the whole contract.
An example of fraud would be the owner deducting pension and tax and not paying it...as happens in many cases.
Or not paying pension at all even though it's mandatory under Korean law (assuming he has more than 4 employees). Again that's fraud and hence illegal. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:49 am Post subject: Re: How to get out of a signed contract before leaving for K |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
[q
Minor defects in contract drafting, including questionable sections, will NOT invalidate the contract in any of the 7 English speaking countries beyond throwing out the bad section - this being an essential element of contract law.
. |
Instead of telling us what you think contract law is, let's go to a source.
http://www.otto-graph.com/samples/3/contractlaw.html
Under the heading "A legal object and purpose" it clearly states that any contract involving fraud (among other things) would be considered invalid. Not just that part of it...the whole contract.
An example of fraud would be the owner deducting pension and tax and not paying it...as happens in many cases.
Or not paying pension at all even though it's mandatory under Korean law (assuming he has more than 4 employees). Again that's fraud and hence illegal. |
It sad, but not surprising, to see that the link you posted supports and says exactly what I told you and that you are unable to comprehend your own link. This is not surprising because your comments on contracts and your comments to me have shown that you have never studied and do not comprehend the basics of contract law. It's sad because it explains the frequent bad advice and misinformation you give to hapless posters.
From the link:
| Quote: |
A legal Object and Purpose
The object and purpose must be legal for a contract to be legal. If its purpose is illegal because of statue of common law, the contract may be void. |
Since you don't understand, I will explain:
The purpose or object of the contract must be legal. The contracts we are discussing have to do with the engagement of a person to perform services as a teacher of English as either an E2 full-time employee, an E2 part-time employee or an E2 independent contractor - all of which are possible.
Since teaching English is the purpose, and this is a legal purpose, all of these contracts have a "legal Object and Purpose."
A contract that would be void under this basic principle of contract law would be a contract entered into with the purpose of breaking the law: for example a contract to buy and sell illegal substances, a contract to engage in an illegal act such as murder, a contract to engage in a conspiracy to defraud an old lady out of her life savings and share the proceeds.
Again from your link:
| Quote: |
| For example, any contract that involves purchasing a stolen item or an illegal drug, or involves fraud or harming someone would be considered void. |
It must be the object and purpose of the contract that is illegal in order for the contract to be void.
If, on the other hand, a contract contains a provision that is illegal, but the purpose is a valid one, the courts will attempt and are in fact required to preserve the remainder of the contract if its purpose can still be attained and if both or either of the parties will derive benefit from the continuation of the contract.
Further, since you do not understand what is and is not illegal under Korean law, the comment you make regarding illegal clauses is bogus. There are few if any contracts that contain anything remotely illegal on the contract thread. Your claims are just plain wrong. You should take at least one class in contract law before making such assertions. You can comment on the comparative desirability of each contract, on the fairness of the terms as they appear to you, but you have no qualifications to judge the legality of a contract provision nor even to understand the principles of contract law.
***
And, on a related note, recently I explained to you that when an employer presents his employee with a new version of a contract to sign, (the two parties having already entered into a contractual relationship) where there is some material change, there must be something in it for both sides for the new contract to be valid. If you are asked to sign a new contract and you are giving up something of value, you must get something of value in exchange. This is called "consideration" and it is also explained in simple form in the link. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: How to get out of a signed contract before leaving for K |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
[q
Minor defects in contract drafting, including questionable sections, will NOT invalidate the contract in any of the 7 English speaking countries beyond throwing out the bad section - this being an essential element of contract law.
. |
Instead of telling us what you think contract law is, let's go to a source.
http://www.otto-graph.com/samples/3/contractlaw.html
Under the heading "A legal object and purpose" it clearly states that any contract involving fraud (among other things) would be considered invalid. Not just that part of it...the whole contract.
An example of fraud would be the owner deducting pension and tax and not paying it...as happens in many cases.
Or not paying pension at all even though it's mandatory under Korean law (assuming he has more than 4 employees). Again that's fraud and hence illegal. |
It sad, but not surprising, to see that the link you posted supports and says exactly what I told you and that you are unable to comprehend your own link. This is not surprising because your comments on contracts and your comments to me have shown that you have never studied and do not comprehend the basics of contract law. It's sad because it explains the frequent bad advice and misinformation you give to hapless posters.
. |
For judging the legality of contracts I use the Korean Labor Standards Act.
Go and tell the government that they don't understand contract law.
Speaking of giving bad advice and misinformation...what hakwons do you say you recruit for? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: How to get out of a signed contract before leaving for K |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
Minor defects in contract drafting, including questionable sections, will NOT invalidate the contract in any of the 7 English speaking countries beyond throwing out the bad section - this being an essential element of contract law.
. |
Instead of telling us what you think contract law is, let's go to a source.
http://www.otto-graph.com/samples/3/contractlaw.html
Under the heading "A legal object and purpose" it clearly states that any contract involving fraud (among other things) would be considered invalid. Not just that part of it...the whole contract.
An example of fraud would be the owner deducting pension and tax and not paying it...as happens in many cases.
Or not paying pension at all even though it's mandatory under Korean law (assuming he has more than 4 employees). Again that's fraud and hence illegal. |
It sad, but not surprising, to see that the link you posted supports and says exactly what I told you and that you are unable to comprehend your own link. This is not surprising because your comments on contracts and your comments to me have shown that you have never studied and do not comprehend the basics of contract law. It's sad because it explains the frequent bad advice and misinformation you give to hapless posters.
. |
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| Quote: |
| For judging the legality of contracts I use the Korean Labor Standards Act. |
But you use it badly and often incorrectly.
| Quote: |
Go and tell the government that they don't understand contract law. |
The government, courts, and lawschools and your own link agree with me.
| Quote: |
| Speaking of giving bad advice and misinformation...what hakwons do you say you recruit for? |
Not a recruiter of any kind. But, yes, your question does show you trying to give more misinformation in the form of a question. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: How to get out of a signed contract before leaving for K |
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[quote="ontheway"]
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
[
| Quote: |
| For judging the legality of contracts I use the Korean Labor Standards Act. |
But you use it badly and often incorrectly.
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Care to show us EXACTLY where I've done it often (five or six examples should suffice) to prove your point?
Just a few points to clarify.
1. I have helped several teachers through problems at the labor board using the KLSA. Nobody there ever (and I mean EVER) told me that I was applying it incorrectly. I'll go with the multiple examples of the labor board rather than some poster on a board/
2. When I give advice (as I have said many times) much of this are guidelines and not written in stone. For example I advise deleting clauses that ask for a deposit...simply because the risk of not getting it back is large. However if the rest of the contract is good one might wish to sign it regardless since junking a contract over one small clause is nit-picky.
However certain clauses (and I have seen many) are illegal. For example some punitive clauses that contain a financial penalty. The KLSA provides guidelines for these stating that such penalties can be no more than half a day's pay per infraction and the total amount can be no more then 1/10th of one month's salary. Clauses that exceed these amounts are illegal and I will point this out.
3. If you are not a recruiter or hakwon owner then why do you continue to give bad and misleading advise to teachers on here and fail to advise them of their rights? I'm not the only person who has noticed this or asked about it either. Other people are starting to notice this as well. (see the other thread).
4. The bottom line is that I will continue to post and give advice. If you feel that it is bad or misleading then post what you think is right and WHY.
Don't try and pull the same trick you are pulling here without using any evidence to back up your statements.
5. Oh and why exactly do you think a contract sticky thread is needed?
The moderators and posters here certainly think it's important. But if we go by your logic (1-2% of hakwons cheat) it's just a waste of bandwidth.
So I guess you are right and the rest of us are wrong then...  |
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