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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:12 pm Post subject: worst |
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| Monopoly wrote: |
I've had it with Korea and their xenophobia.
and WE are the ones that write tomorrows history. All of these bloggers and teachers who are here with backgrounds in literature and journalism are working in Korea now, watching, observing, learning, absorbing. come back to your faces eventually!
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So all those native speakers that keep a blog between chasing skirt and getting boozed out of their minds are going to be writing history? 
No I don;t think anyone is going to pay attention to them.
Talk about having an overinflated and unjustified ego? 
Let me remind you the requirements for working here.
1. A BS in ANYTHING
2. Be foreign
3. Er that's it!
Please don't get cocky! |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| JK Rowling used to be an EFL teacher and she's now one of the richest women in the world. You never know. |
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buildbyflying
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: To your right. No, your other right.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| James Joyce used to teach for Berlitz. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes. Come to think of it, George Orwell used to 'do privates' in Paris. |
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jrock
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Ricky's girlfriend Lucy (from the Trailer Park Boys) taught in Korea^^ |
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tigershark
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| What happened to you Korea? You used to be cool. |
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tigershark
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| On a more serious note. When will we find out if this actually going to happen? |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Got to love the racist xenophobia of this country. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Am I the only one who isn't bothered by having to take a drug test or go through a CBC before I get involved in teaching?
No I don't think its Nazism and I don't think it's racist. You are a foreigner entering a new country, obviously the requirements are going to be stricter.
The sense of entitlement and the paranoia on these forums is astounding sometimes.
You do realize that back home if you want to be a teacher you have to have a clear criminal background. You don't have to do drug tests but after being around one too many stoned teachers (no they weren't "cool man", well my Art History teacher was cool) schools should require that as well.
Okay they should require it for Match, Science, English, History, and Foreign Language teachers. Music, Art, and Culinary teachers smoke away.
| Quote: |
| The people that these lawmakers are pissing off are the young generation, and WE are the ones that write tomorrows history. All of these bloggers and teachers who are here with backgrounds in literature and journalism are working in Korea now, watching, observing, learning, absorbing. Tomorrow they'll be the newspaper editor, reporter, or maybe even start their own magazine or newsletter. WTF do you think these pathetic politicians will think when they are long retired, spitting everywhere, cutting in lines and giving foreigners dirty looks, when they see a newspaper or article in the future from a former teacher who is now a writer, they labeled a criminal turns the tables on them? We're not stupid Korea! Do your worst! It'll all come back to your faces eventually! |
Did it ever occur to you that the average Korean does not follow the latest E-2 visa regulations?
Did it ever occur to you that the average Korean spends their day thinking about the kids, their spouse, their job, what they're going to eat, the grocery list etc. etc. and not thinking about foreigners?
I know, I know, we should be the center of their lives and you believe you are.
Did it ever occur to you that if they really thought we were drug addled pedophiles the kids here wouldn't be running up to us screaming "Hello Teacha!!!" and parents wouldn't be begging us to come over and teach their kids.
Your rhetoric does not match reality. In fact it is the sign of a delusional mind.
EDIT- I do agree the process is a bureacratic headache, but we're all big kids here. Still it'd be nice if the process could be streamlined.
Last edited by Steelrails on Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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With all the technology, they should be able to run the police check without us doing the run around. And when they promise that we will never have to do it again, and then go changing the visa regs, yet again, it gets annoying.
Plus, with time constraints, you don't even know if you're CBC will still be valid when you get it. Case in point, The last two time I got mine, it took me 3 months, just for the state to legalise it. Then I still have to go through authentification, and apostillisation. And if you don't find a job right away, you're back to the drawing board.
Serioulsy, all they have to do to make it easier on us is install digital fingerprinting at the airport. Instant results. Same with drug tests. |
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garygoodbloke
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Am I the only one who isn't bothered by having to take a drug test or go through a CBC before I get involved in teaching?
No I don't think its Nazism and I don't think it's racist. You are a foreigner entering a new country, obviously the requirements are going to be stricter.
The sense of entitlement and the paranoia on these forums is astounding sometimes.
You do realize that back home if you want to be a teacher you have to have a clear criminal background. You don't have to do drug tests but after being around one too many stoned teachers (no they weren't "cool man", well my Art History teacher was cool) schools should require that as well.
Okay they should require it for Match, Science, English, History, and Foreign Language teachers. Music, Art, and Culinary teachers smoke away.
| Quote: |
| The people that these lawmakers are pissing off are the young generation, and WE are the ones that write tomorrows history. All of these bloggers and teachers who are here with backgrounds in literature and journalism are working in Korea now, watching, observing, learning, absorbing. Tomorrow they'll be the newspaper editor, reporter, or maybe even start their own magazine or newsletter. WTF do you think these pathetic politicians will think when they are long retired, spitting everywhere, cutting in lines and giving foreigners dirty looks, when they see a newspaper or article in the future from a former teacher who is now a writer, they labeled a criminal turns the tables on them? We're not stupid Korea! Do your worst! It'll all come back to your faces eventually! |
Did it ever occur to you that the average Korean does not follow the latest E-2 visa regulations?
Did it ever occur to you that the average Korean spends their day thinking about the kids, their spouse, their job, what they're going to eat, the grocery list etc. etc. and not thinking about foreigners?
I know, I know, we should be the center of their lives and you believe you are.
Did it ever occur to you that if they really thought we were drug addled pedophiles the kids here wouldn't be running up to us screaming "Hello Teacha!!!" and parents wouldn't be begging us to come over and teach their kids.
Your rhetoric does not match reality. In fact it is the sign of a delusional mind.
EDIT- I do agree the process is a bureacratic headache, but we're all big kids here. Still it'd be nice if the process could be streamlined. |
I don't think people are upset because they're required to do the checks and tests. They're upset because the rationale behind the measures is, in my opinion, deeply racist and xenophobic. The same is not required of those on f-4 VISAs who share your nationality but not your ethnicity.
It's also because this is being driven by the belief that foreigners commit more crime than Koreans. Where the crime rate for the foreigner community is far lower than the Korean community (0.7% vs. 3% approx). And the media's role in coverage is to strengthen the belief that these measures are necessary and that the fact these measures are being discussed by the government lends credibility to the notion that foreigners are unsafe.
Foreigners are upset because (even though Koreans generally don't go out of their way to think about foreigners) all the coverage Koreans see or hear about is negative. This then makes foreigners feel like second citizens where in their homelands, Koreans and other ethnicities enjoy pretty much the same rights and freedoms as the natives of that land.
Then, foreigners in Korea have to listen to ignorant Koreans discuss how racist other countries are and how egalitarian Korea is. Not to mention the experiences black people have in Korea when it comes to hiring and general treatment.
So, it's not the tests themselves, but the double standards (Korean teachers don't have the same tests despite coming from a community with a higher drug and crime rate, and it's these same supposed statistics that are used to justify any testing and CBC in the first place), the ignorance, the xenophobia and the fact that Koreans don't even pretend to care for the human rights of foreigners that NET are, understandably, outraged about. And, to be honest, they'd be ignoring their responsibilities if they didn't engage in some form of peaceful protest over the issue.
My favourite post is this one:
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| What happened Korea? You used to be cool. |
I can tell you, having spent 10 days in North Korea and following the place for years, I'd say that culturally and psychically, the South has far more in common with the North than it does with the West. And whilst I abhor the utterly wicked and repulsive North Korean government, at least they have the balls to be honest about their xenophobia. And when North Korea is more honest than your government, you would, as a South Korean, have to feel a large measure of shame about that. |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| tigershark wrote: |
| What happened to you Korea? You used to be cool. |
Was Korea ever cool? Hard to imagine. Maybe it cared less or was going through some growing pains, but cool? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Foreigners are upset because (even though Koreans generally don't go out of their way to think about foreigners) all the coverage Koreans see or hear about is negative. This then makes foreigners feel like second citizens where in their homelands, Koreans and other ethnicities enjoy pretty much the same rights and freedoms as the natives of that land. |
If you think all the coverage is negative then you're zeroing in on the negative stories and having the positive ones go in one ear and out the other. The positive ones don't provoke an emotional reaction so your brain tends to 'miss' them as they pop up on the TV or are in a newspaper.
It's the reason sex and gore sell in the news. This is also why, during the rare occasions that a foreigner commits a crime, its thrown out there. It sells. It's not racism, it's "If it bleeds, it leads." The Korean public is just as desensitized to positive stories about foreigners as we are.
Case in point- Random guy rapes woman, paragraph blurb. Black man rapes white college girl, Priest rapes anyone, celebrity yells at policeman, etc.
The media is trash. Doesn't mean a lot of people actually care, although they care more than just a normal story. It's a balance.
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| So, it's not the tests themselves, but the double standards (Korean teachers don't have the same tests despite coming from a community with a higher drug and crime rate, and it's these same supposed statistics that are used to justify any testing and CBC in the first place), the ignorance, the xenophobia and the fact that Koreans don't even pretend to care for the human rights of foreigners that NET are, understandably, outraged about. And, to be honest, they'd be ignoring their responsibilities if they didn't engage in some form of peaceful protest over the issue. |
So we protest the fact that the laws were made "with racism in mind." But since we agree with the laws in principle, at least the CBCs, and I do think the silent majority of people out there are fine with the entry drug tests, then those laws will come right back into existence, but this time under "acceptable reasoning"?
Seems kind of well, inefficient to me. If you're going to protest, protest for something that can actually change in substance, rather than just in reason.
One thing we hear a lot is that the police here always side with Koreans and waygooks are in trouble. This goes into the whole equal rights and freedoms and protections and second class citizens thing.
However I challenge anyone here to find an incident even remotely comparable to what the Koreans went through in LA in 1992 where the police did NOTHING as Koreatown was burned to the ground by armed mobs.
Rightly or Wrongly I think that has influenced Koreans perceptions about immigration issues and how 'tolerant' the rest of the world is and what the standard is for treatment of foreigners elsewhere- the real standard, not whats on the books. I disagree with the negative conclusions they would draw, but well, that was pretty bad. |
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garygoodbloke
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Foreigners are upset because (even though Koreans generally don't go out of their way to think about foreigners) all the coverage Koreans see or hear about is negative. This then makes foreigners feel like second citizens where in their homelands, Koreans and other ethnicities enjoy pretty much the same rights and freedoms as the natives of that land. |
If you think all the coverage is negative then you're zeroing in on the negative stories and having the positive ones go in one ear and out the other. The positive ones don't provoke an emotional reaction so your brain tends to 'miss' them as they pop up on the TV or are in a newspaper.
It's the reason sex and gore sell in the news. This is also why, during the rare occasions that a foreigner commits a crime, its thrown out there. It sells. It's not racism, it's "If it bleeds, it leads." The Korean public is just as desensitized to positive stories about foreigners as we are.
Case in point- Random guy rapes woman, paragraph blurb. Black man rapes white college girl, Priest rapes anyone, celebrity yells at policeman, etc.
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Would you be able to give specific examples of positive coverage of foreigners? Not saying they don't exist, but I equally can't say they do exist ever since I've never seen them. If you have, please link them.
| Steelrails wrote: |
The media is trash. Doesn't mean a lot of people actually care, although they care more than just a normal story. It's a balance.
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So they media is trash, doesn't mean you're supposed to shrug your shoulders in apathy and say there's nothing can be done.
And it's not only the media coverage, it's the fact that the public accepts it and publically elected officials and Korea law enforcement are on the record as believing these things, that's what is frightening. We're not just talking about the angry mob mentality, we're talking about educated, (un)worldly politicians who should know better.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So, it's not the tests themselves, but the double standards (Korean teachers don't have the same tests despite coming from a community with a higher drug and crime rate, and it's these same supposed statistics that are used to justify any testing and CBC in the first place), the ignorance, the xenophobia and the fact that Koreans don't even pretend to care for the human rights of foreigners that NET are, understandably, outraged about. And, to be honest, they'd be ignoring their responsibilities if they didn't engage in some form of peaceful protest over the issue. |
So we protest the fact that the laws were made "with racism in mind." But since we agree with the laws in principle, at least the CBCs, and I do think the silent majority of people out there are fine with the entry drug tests, then those laws will come right back into existence, but this time under "acceptable reasoning"?
Seems kind of well, inefficient to me. If you're going to protest, protest for something that can actually change in substance, rather than just in reason.
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No, you take it as evidence of xenophobia and racism, seeing as that's the real discussion. Also, would you campaign against hate crime legislation because you feel intentions aren't important, only outcomes are?
I believe in many situations in life there is a place for focusing on what happened and why it effects you rather than spending too long discussing the intentions of those involved. For example, I once moved out because my flatmate was psychotic, literally. She refused to give my full bond back. But it's simply better to cut losses and move on. I could have gone to tribunals, etc.. and I would have been right, but what good would it do? The point I'm trying to make here is that I understand the argument of pragmatism you're making, really I do.
But, I say that doesn't apply here. That's like saying that intentions don't matter and that you believe that if someone else says: "The ends justify the means" then you'd just accept that. It's also arguing that there should be no legislation for hate crimes.
So if a bunch of neo-nazis vandalise a synagogue, they should receive the same punishment as spray-can artists that get caught creating a mural on an abandoned building's wall? Is that what you're arguing. Because the difference between the two things isn't capture solely by the physical damage but by the symbology and motives of those who do it.
The laws, propositions and attitudes all involved in this situation are symbolic of the racist and xenophobic attitudes of a significant proportion of Koreans, including publically elected officials whose job it is to speak for the Korean populace.
I'm curious to hear your perspective on that.
Furthermore, you assume I want the same outcome reached through a different process. I don't, I want a different outcome acheived through a balanced and impartial process.
| Steelrails wrote: |
One thing we hear a lot is that the police here always side with Koreans and waygooks are in trouble. This goes into the whole equal rights and freedoms and protections and second class citizens thing.
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Right, and I believe that's true, although, not just in Korea, this is true in pretty much every country I've been to, doesn't make it right.
| Steelrails wrote: |
However I challenge anyone here to find an incident even remotely comparable to what the Koreans went through in LA in 1992 where the police did NOTHING as Koreatown was burned to the ground by armed mobs.
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First of all, it's pretty clear that whilst the Rodney King incident was as racially charged as it gets, I don't think the fact that it went down in Korea town had any racial motivation. A powder keg was sparked, riots went down and no police force in the world (outside of Rio, anyway) is prepared for a full-scale riot. The fact that Korean shops bore the brunt is beside the point. The mob was smashing things up no matter what. As they did throughout South Central and in other non Korean parts of LA. To use this as an example is misleading and doesn't mean anything.
It's like saying the police didn't try to help the finance companies in the world trade centre when it was attacked. It implies that it was the specific finance centres (in your example, Korean businesses) that were victimised, when in fact, it was the American people and the symbol the WTC stood for that was the intended target. I wish I didn't have to waste two paragraphs explaining this.
| Steelrails wrote: |
Rightly or Wrongly I think that has influenced Koreans perceptions about immigration issues and how 'tolerant' the rest of the world is and what the standard is for treatment of foreigners elsewhere- the real standard, not whats on the books. I disagree with the negative conclusions they would draw, but well, that was pretty bad. |
Ok, so this is built on the Rodney King argument.
I'm not here claiming that other countries (including my own) has issues with racism. Clearly they do and the West has it's own issues.
I'm claiming it's one thing to discuss the ignorant ramblings of a vocal minority in a country with extreme multiculturalism. In Australia more than 25% born in another country. Korea specific, there are 150,000 Korean speaking residents of Australia, not including the students and working holiday VISAs.
It makes sense with so much immigration that there will be issues related to it.
But it's quite another thing when every level of society adopts racist and ignorant attitudes towards foreigners. As a comprable example, imagine if the UK decided to test all foreign workers for AIDS and CBC before getting their VISA. Now imagine that they then said: "All those caucasians with British ancestry (but not with British passports) are exempt from these requirements, even if they do the same jobs." You wouldn't have a problem with that?
Why should it be that when I go to teach in Korea, I must submit to this, whereas other Australians with Korean ancestry don't? Is it their pure Korean blood that dictates they're less likely to do drugs and molest children? I once heard of something like that going on in Germany a long time ago, where one race was deemed to have more criminal tendancy than the other.
To me, it's indefensible nonsense that two people with the same nationality but different race are treated different by the laws of a country.
And we haven't even got to the fact that statistically speaking, Koreans are more likely (by criminal statistics) to use drugs than foreigners but foreigners get tested and Koreans don't. So they should either test everyone or no one. Any other way is patently racist and unjust. |
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wiganer
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Would you be able to give specific examples of positive coverage of foreigners? Not saying they don't exist, but I equally can't say they do exist ever since I've never seen them. If you have, please link them.
There is quite a bit of positive coverage of foreigners on Korean TV. I remember the programme about a Welshman married to a Korean and their life back in Korea and a programme on KBS about this South African teacher who everyone loved on this remote island he taught on. There were other programmes and reports about non-Koreans and they were in a positive light. Listen Gary - I agree with most of what you say and feel that Korea has a lot wrong with it but I also feel this younger generation of Koreans have a totally different outlook and worldview in comparison to the over-35 adjosshis who are running the joint now. Korea is changing as we speak. |
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