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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:20 am Post subject: Israelis raze entire Bedouin village |
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...er, I mean, just another day in Israel. 
Read this Israeli paratrooper's account.
Ethnic cleansing in the Israeli Negev
By Neve Gordon
29 July 2010
Neve Gordon recounts his experience of visiting the Israeli Arab village of Al-Arakib moments after it had been razed to the ground by the Israeli authorities, in the latest example of ethnic cleansing in the Negev desert.
From the press release:
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| Early this morning police raided the unrecognized Bedouin village of al-Arakib in the Negev, destroyed all 40 of its houses, and evicted more than 300 residents. The residents, mostly children, were left homeless. The unprecedented raid began at about 4:30 in the morning, residents were surprised to wake up surrounded by a huge force of 1,500 police with guns, stun grenades, helmets and shields, including hundreds of Special Riot Police (Yasam) as well as mounted police, helicopters and bulldozers. |
A menacing convoy of bulldozers was heading back to Be'er Sheva as I drove towards al-Arakib, a Bedouin village located not more than 10 minutes from the city. Once I entered the dirt road leading to the village I saw scores of vans with heavily armed policemen getting ready to leave. Their mission, it seems, had been accomplished.
The signs of destruction were immediately evident. I first noticed the chickens and geese running loose near a bulldozed house, and then saw another house and then another one, all of them in rubble. A few children were trying to find a shaded spot to hide from the scorching desert sun, while behind them a stream of black smoke rose from the burning hay. The sheep, goats and the cattle were nowhere to be seen � perhaps because the police had confiscated them.
Scores of Bedouin men were standing on a yellow hill, sharing their experiences from the early morning hours, while all around them uprooted olive trees lay on the ground. A whole village comprising between 40 and 45 houses had been completely razed in less than three hours.
I suddenly experienced deja vu: an image of myself walking in the rubbles of a destroyed village somewhere on the outskirts of the Lebanese city of Sidon emerged. It was over 25 years ago, during my service in the Israeli paratroopers. But in Lebanon the residents had all fled long before my platoon came, and we simply walked in the debris. There was something surreal about the experience, which prevented me from fully understanding its significance for several years. At the time, it felt like I was walking on the moon.
This time the impact of the destruction sank in immediately. Perhaps because the 300 people who resided in al-Arakib, including their children, were sitting in the rubble when I arrived, and their anguish was evident; or perhaps because the village is located only 10 minutes from my home in Be'er Sheva and I drive past it every time I go to Tel Aviv or Jerusalem; or perhaps because the Bedouins are Israeli citizens, and I suddenly understood how far the state is ready to go to accomplish its objective of Judaising the Negev region; what I witnessed was, after all, an act of ethnic cleansing. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Israeli police and tanks arrived at 4:30am and evicted 300 Bedouin (who are Israeli citizens!) from 40-45 homes, subsequently razing the entire village.
Now spin that. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| I've just posted a link explaining why these events occurred |
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thecount
Joined: 10 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
Now spin that. |
You just did. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| thecount wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Now spin that. |
You just did. |
Just what part of
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| Israeli police and tanks arrived at 4:30am and evicted 300 Bedouin (who are Israeli citizens!) from 40-45 homes, subsequently razing the entire village. |
is spin and not fact?
Last edited by bacasper on Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| I have often heard that Palestinians often find it very difficult to get a building permit. So, I wonder if it could be the case that the bedouins simply were unable to obtain the building permits. At any rate, right or wrong, Israel's government clearly over reacted. |
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thecount
Joined: 10 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| thecount wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Now spin that. |
You just did. |
Just what part of
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| Israeli police and tanks arrived at 4:30am and evicted 300 Bedouin (who are Israeli citizens!) from 40-45 homes, subsequently razing the entire village. |
is spin and not fact? |
Could it be the bold and large-fonted "Ethnic cleansing in the Israeli Negev?"
Perhaps the "just another day in Israel?"
The bolding of subsequent statements of "ethnic cleansing" in the article you quoted?
Nope, completely unbiased here. No spin at all.
FYI, this is known as an eviction.
People who don't pay rent or taxes, who have been thrown out before but come back to squat are routinely kicked out in any country you can name. The worse ones throw them in Jail or shoot them. If you would have taken the time to read what was going on, you'd see that this is quite similar to the tent-city evictions we do in the US all the time. Legal and common. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Clearly Israel is just trying to preserve the Bedouins' traditional way of life. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| thecount wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| thecount wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
Now spin that. |
You just did. |
Just what part of
| Quote: |
| Israeli police and tanks arrived at 4:30am and evicted 300 Bedouin (who are Israeli citizens!) from 40-45 homes, subsequently razing the entire village. |
is spin and not fact? |
Could it be the bold and large-fonted "Ethnic cleansing in the Israeli Negev?"
Perhaps the "just another day in Israel?"
The bolding of subsequent statements of "ethnic cleansing" in the article you quoted?
Nope, completely unbiased here. No spin at all.
FYI, this is known as an eviction.
People who don't pay rent or taxes, who have been thrown out before but come back to squat are routinely kicked out in any country you can name. The worse ones throw them in Jail or shoot them. If you would have taken the time to read what was going on, you'd see that this is quite similar to the tent-city evictions we do in the US all the time. Legal and common. |
There are so many things wrong with your post I don't know where to start.
For starters, you took my quote out of context. I reduced the article down to a single sentence of fact, and then said, "Now spin that." Really disingenuous.
Then, I didn't name the article. That was the title from the source if you'd follow the link. They in turn got it from the Israeli paratrooper they quoted.
Squatting? The Bedouins have been living in that desert for thousands of years!  |
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thecount
Joined: 10 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:20 am Post subject: |
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For starters, you took my quote out of context. I reduced the article down to a single sentence of fact, and then said, "Now spin that." Really disingenuous |
I agree - reducing your post down to a single sentence WAS really disingenuous.
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Then, I didn't name the article. That was the title from the source if you'd follow the link. |
The *HUGE* link? That one? It's called sensationalizing, and you are guilty of it. Again, you are being disingenuous.
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Squatting? The Bedouins have been living in that desert for thousands of years! |
Is that a valid defense, if the cops come knocking?
"Squatting? My family has been in this town forever!"
Stop spinning.
80% of these folks are even taking Israeli health care...yet 42% of Bedouins reject Israel's right to exist.
...yet none of this matters.
What does matter is that we are talking about a legal eviction of recurring squatters as if it was an ethnic cleansing. I half expected to read that the bulldozers were for building mass graves.
Luckily, your source is none other than the famous Israel-basher, Neve Gordon. Of course he sees all of Israel's actions as imperialistic and evil - he's the guy who has been supporting sanctions against Israel and extolling holocaust deniers. When someone blames jews for antisemitism, everything they see reflects that. Neve Gordon is a ridiculously biased source, even according to a Harvard professor, which you seemed to put a lot of stock in on a different discussion..."or don't you believe the Harvard prof?"
http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=40509 |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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So basically this "ethnic cleansing" is nothing more than the kicking out a bunch of squatters from land they'd illegally occupied for nearly a decade.
And once again (just like in the blogs thread) when the true story comes to light we see who's spinning what. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| thecount wrote: |
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For starters, you took my quote out of context. I reduced the article down to a single sentence of fact, and then said, "Now spin that." Really disingenuous |
I agree - reducing your post down to a single sentence WAS really disingenuous. |
OK, so you are not interested in a serious discussion. You just want to be "clever."
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| Quote: |
| Then, I didn't name the article. That was the title from the source if you'd follow the link. |
The *HUGE* link? That one? It's called sensationalizing, and you are guilty of it. Again, you are being disingenuous. |
No larger than MOST of the stories I post. New here?
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| Squatting? The Bedouins have been living in that desert for thousands of years! |
Is that a valid defense, if the cops come knocking?
"Squatting? My family has been in this town forever!"
Stop spinning. |
Hell, yeah, it's a defense! Not surprised that you'd take the authoritarian side, though.
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| 80% of these folks are even taking Israeli health care |
They are Israeli citizens!
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...yet 42% of Bedouins reject Israel's right to exist.
...yet none of this matters. |
Their political opinions should not determine whether they can live in their homes or not.
And yours is the famous Israeli apologist, Alan Doucheforwits. I guess that one's a draw. |
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thecount
Joined: 10 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
OK, so you are not interested in a serious discussion. You just want to be "clever." |
You started the hair-splitting and eye-rolling. If you were truly interested in a "serious discussion," you wouldn't have condemned one side in large-font before knowing what actually happened. Maybe you just didn't care.
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No larger than MOST of the stories I post. New here?
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In this very thread, right under your the eye-grabbing claims of ethnic cleansing, I see a hyper-linked "From the press release."
You are certainly capable of restraint; You merely choose not to use it during a defaming spree. I've certainly been here long enough to see that this is your modus operandi when it comes to attacking Israel...but I don't know why you would so readily attest to such methods.
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Hell, yeah, it's a defense! Not surprised that you'd take the authoritarian side, though.
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By the same defense, the Jews have maintained a presence in Israel for thousands of years and are the oldest of the indigenous tribes there that still exist, predating Islam by many thousands of years.
Do you then renounce the Islamic claims to Jerusalem? It's a defense, right?
You are no doubt doing mental aerobics right now, trying to figure out a why to decry Israel's claims, but not the Bedouins. I'd expect nothing less.
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They are Israeli citizens!
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And evicted Americans are American citizens. Your point?
I'm demonstrating how patently ridiculous it is to insist that Israel is ethnically cleansing people when it is in fact providing these "nomads" with health care. The very fact that Israel considers them citizens illustrates how completely ludicrous the blood libel you post is.
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Their political opinions should not determine whether they can live in their homes or not.
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And you are wrong. Every country in the world, including America, can (and has) acted against citizens that wish (and, in many cases, have been SUSPECTED of wishing!) for the destruction of that country. Remember the Japanese and executive order 9066? 42% of the Japanese weren't in favor of America's destruction, and the majority of them were families that were paying all the required taxes / deeds for their land / rented housing.
Was the US engaging in ethnic cleansing? Obviously many of the higher-ups hated the Japanese. Many perhaps even stated that a desired effect would be to get them to leave...but that wasn't what the policy was about. Throwing around terms such as that is ridiculous. The real ethnic cleansing is what 42% of the Bedouins want. It's what much of the Arab world wants - Israel wiped off the map, a culture of democracy forgotten, an entire people, erased. Israeli's, both Jew and Arab, are beset upon by those who would wish to annihilate them. Why doesn't this worry you?
On an ironic side-note, if it were Palestinians selling land to the Bedouins, they would be guilty of treason under Palestinian law, punishable by death. You see, for them, it is illegal to sell land to any Israeli citizen, regardless of their religion.
[http://books.google.com/books?id=PSZLuN80zs0C&pg=PA577&dq=death+penalty+for+selling+property++to+jews&ei=T077SZ7sLZLqyAT74KHGBQ&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q&f=false]
Don't even BEGIN to speak about paying for political beliefs. Israel is a kitten compared to the horrors of its neighbors. An Arab member of Israeli's parliament commits what is no less than an act of treason against Israeli interests (REGARDLESS of your views on the Gaza situation), and Israel responds by...stripping her passport. You are barking up the wrong tree, pal.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/07/14/israel.lawmaker.punished/index.html
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Alan Doucheforwits. |
Ah, the compelling arguments you are capable of! Truly, you represent your side well.
DARE YOU DOUBT THE HARVARD PROFESSOR?!
Wasn't that YOUR argument previously?
When your own rules are applied to you, you break down into name-calling and apparently dismissing scholars from the institution you once held in such high regard.
I'm done here. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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One of my Arab-Israeli friends told me of how her father waited for six years before getting a building permit. Six years, mind you. Someone measured where they could build and what not. Later, they were threatened with having their home demolished, because it was supposedly over, though they followed the previous government recommendation. This is according to her. She is Muslim. An Arab-Israeli Catholic recounted to me how she was distressed once when her employer chewed her out for speaking Arabic, and how people sometimes would say she should leave the country, she does not belong there.
The bedouins of the Negev have long been harassed by Israel. They've been there for centuries. People can claim that people don't have permits and what not, but permits are often denied to non-Jews.
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/08/01/israel-halt-demolitions-bedouin-homes-negev
The state contends that the Bedouin have never had recognized land claims in the area. Al-Okbi's lawyer, Michael Sfard, recently produced evidence in court, however, that appeared to show that the Jewish National Fund had bought land in this area from Bedouin owners during British rule, as did Ottoman authorities before then. This, he said, indicated that the area had customarily been recognized as belonging to the Bedouin.
The demolitions came two days after Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu made comments in a government meeting, as reported by Israeli media, about the "threat" of losing a Jewish majority in the Negev region. "We are under real attack on this issue [of Israel as a Jewish state]," Netanyahu was quoted as saying in a July 25 government meeting regarding amendments to the citizenship law. "The meaning could be that different elements will demand national rights within Israel, for example, in the Negev, if we allow for a region without a Jewish majority. It has happened in the Balkans, and it is a palpable threat." |
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