Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Globutron]

Because I listen to Classical music and you don't.

The only people that actually say this are the people who only listen to the Classical Era, rather than the world in itself. Occasionally Romantic.

It turns out that most Progressive Rock music is more intellectually advanced than alternating between V-I and I-V cadences, before ending on a V-I cadence that lasts about 14 hours.

I'm just whining because the Orchestra I saw last weekend to celebrate Korean Independence or whatever was annoying, and the number of snobbish tools there was not unlike the emo epidemic that once spread across city centres in England.

I find it truly irritating that the world won't open up to CONTEMPORARY classical music.

Get over the perfect cadence, already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAjJf45fkTc&feature=fvw

[Underwaterbob]

Claiming you are intellectual because you only listen to 250 year old music is ridiculous. Western tonality has made great advances since Mozart's time, especially in the 20th century, but no one wants to listen to Penderecki's Threnody or Xenakis' Metastasis over and over no matter how intellectual they are, unless they're a masochist. Prog rock is a bit behind those last two in terms of revolutionary ideas.

Anyhow, nobody only listens to the classical era since it only lasted 50 years and its only composers worth mentioning are Mozart and Haydn. "The Classical Era" in music is really just the transition period from the ad-lib tinged, stodgy Baroque to the overtly-emotional Romantic era.

Where's tomato? He likes this stuff. I'd rather discuss music then argue an endless creationist-evolution debate anyway.

[Globutron]

Actually there was a deliberate hint towards that thread in here. I suppose it shall remain hidden.

I've come across many people - mainly at uni - who only listen to it. Or maybe Mahler at latest. Generally Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Mendelssohn etc.

I was the outcast because I liked rock music. I remember one guy whispering to someone, which I overheard 'look, people like that don't belong in this university, they should go back to their drugs' and then a snicker.

Hard times.

Xenakis is a push for durable listening, but Thomas Ad�s, MacMillan, Adams, Boulez, Schoenberg (the expressionist days) and so on, I could and do listen for days at a time.
But that isn't the point. I just wonder how people don't get immensely bored when sitting in the rain for two hours watching 78 perfect cadences in a row.

Dunno where Tomato is, but I find it fortunate that there are at least two others on here into both science AND music.

[Louis VI]

Genius is in jazz.

[Globutron]

Which brings me to this

http://www.hockeydrunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/history_of_black_music.jpg

[tomato]

Here I am.
I just found this thread.
Thank you for thinking about me.

I don't know about the relative merits of Baroque, Classical, and Romantic music, but I've given up hope for most of the innovations of Modern music.

You can accuse me of the "naturalistic fallacy" if you wish, but atonality, polytonality, and microtonality are rare in the music of people of other cultures, whereas the pentatonic and heptatonic scales are found everywhere in the world. This indicates that our brains carry pentatonic and heptatonic instincts but not atonal, microtonal, and polytonal.

Composers of a-, poly-, and microtonal music are probably pulling the same trick which was pulled by the Royal Weavers: you'd better appreciate it, or what will your neighbors think?

Proponents of a-, poly-, and micro- are fond of recounting stories of innovative music being rejected in the past. The Saint Matthew Passion was denounced as a musical comedy! The Franck d minor symphony was scorned because it had an English horn solo! The Rites of Spring created a riot!

These stories are usually suffixed with a caveat like "You'd better accept a-, poly-, and micro- or future generation will laugh at you, just like we laugh at the first audiences at the Saint Matthew Passion, Franck's d minor symphony, and The Rites of Spring!"

What such proponents fail to recognize is that the audiences of the past came to accept Bach, Franck, and Stravinsky much quicker than we have come to accept a-, poly-, and micro-. This is the first time in history that the concert-going public preferred the works of composers of bygone eras to those of their own contemporaries.

Schoenberg thought that the grandchildren of the current generation would become so well grounded in the twelve-tone technique that they would instantly recognize a note out of place. Yet most of us can hear nothing but noise.

We still call Schoenberg a "modern composer," even though we are as far removed in time from Schoenberg as Mozart was from Bach. I realize that innovations have to undergo a trial. But the trial for a-, poly-, and micro- has already taken place, and the defendants have been found guilty.

The atonalists, polytonalists, and microtonalists, then, are arguing on the basis of nothing but inductive reasoning. As I keep trying to say on the other thread, you can't get conclusive evidence from inductive reasoning.

[warmachinenkorea]

I have no idea what you're talking about. But I love The Blues

[djsmnc]

I'm like smart and I listen to hip hop and stuff.

[Globutron]

[the ireland]

Truely smart people are able to wake up and get to work on time

[Globutron]

Hahah, very true. By that logic My IQ is close to Down Syndrome levels.

[movybuf]

Zeppelin rules!

[tomato]

For warmachinenkorea and for anyone else in need, here is a glossary:

<<<atonality>>>

Some of the Twentieth Century composers decided to dispense with C major, g minor, and all the other majors and minors. They contended that C was a tyrant in C major and g was a tyrant in g minor. They rebelled by treating all of the naturals, sharps, and flats equally.

Just remember that a- means "no" and tonality means "tonal center."

There are two major divisions of atonality. One is the twelve-tone system, in which the composer makes certain that all twelve of the naturals, sharps, and flats are used the same number of times in a piece. The other is free atonality, in which the composer does not subscribe to the twelve-tone system, but makes certain that there is no suggestion of C major, g minor, or any other major or minor in the composition.

Critics of atonality argue that it could be just as restricting as submitting to a major or minor key.

<<<polytonality>>>

In this system, the composer writes in major or minor keys, but writes in more than one key at a time.

Just remember that poly- means "many" and tonality means "tonal centers."

This was not entirely new in the Twentieth Century. Mozart once wrote in polytonality as a joke. In his opera La Boheme, Puccini writes a song in E major which gets interrupted by a marching band playing in Bb major. But polytonality was never used in any large extent until the Twentieth Century.

German composer Paul Hindemith argued that the human mind cannot think in two or more keys at the same time. According to Hindemith, when any two pitches are sounded together, one of those pitches predominates in the listener's mind, no matter what keys those two voices are supposed to be playing in.

<<<microtonality>>>

According to some modern composers, we are committing a waste by using only the naturals, sharps, and flats and ignoring the pitches which lie between these naturals, sharps, and flats. These hidden pitches are called microtones.

Just remember that micro- means "small" and tonality means "tones."

The most commonly used microtones seem to be quarter tones, which lie halfway between the keys on the piano. Playing microtonal music is often called "playing in the cracks."

To perform the music of these composers, keyboards with extra keys, woodwind instruments with extra keys, brass instruments with extra valves, and fretted string instruments with extra frets have been made. Those poor trombonists, and those poor players of bowed string instruments are left on their own to find those microtones--and they have enough trouble finding naturals, sharps, and flats.

I don't know, but it seems that there would be so few people wanting to buy such instruments that the manufacturers would have to charge sky high prices to those who DO want to buy them.

<<<pentatonality>>>

Have you ever seen Korean children playing Arirang on the black keys only? That is possible because Arirang is in the pentatonic mode, or the mode using only do, re, mi, so, and la. It is possible to play in the pentatonic mode in any key, but if you play in the key of F#, those five pitches coincide with the five black keys on the piano.

Just remember that penta- means "five" and tonality means "tones."

Every culture in the world has pentatonic music. Pentatonic music is relatively easy, so the folk music of most cultures abounds with the pentatonic mode. Here in Korea, you have likely been surrounded with pop songs, folk songs, and all other styles of Korean music in the pentatonic mode without even realizing it.

Children's songs are especially doremisolacious. Examples in our language include Mary Had a Little Lamb, The Farmer in the Dell, and Old MacDonald Had a Farm. Examples in Korean include 여우야, 꼼아야, and 우리 집에 왜 왔니?

For this reason, some innovators in music education, notably Zoltan Kodaly and Carl Orff, suggest confining beginning music students to the pentatonic mode.

If you want to learn more about pentatonic music, I am setting up a Website on the subject: http://www.pentatonika.net

<<<heptatonality>>>

If you count the notes in any major or minor scale, but are careful not to count both the top and bottom notes, you will count seven notes. The major and minor scales, then, are called heptatonic scales. This is the technique which has predominated throughout the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries. Even today, it seems to satisfy most listeners, Globutron being a significant exception.

Just remember that hepta- means "seven" and tonality means "tones."

A-, poly-, and microtonal music have been a boon to popular musicians. Many listeners want something brand new, but they also want something tonal. In the concert hall, they can get something new OR tonal, but they can't get anything new AND tonal. In order to get both, they have to turn to popular music.

There are other heptatonic scales besides the major and minor scales. In the Renaissance, the Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, and Mixolydian scales were among the most widespread. You said that you "love the Blues," so you probably listen to music written in the Blues scale. Here is a Webpage on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues_scale

[Louis VI]

Using jargon can be a pompous cover for mediocrity or simply a rhetorical gaff when used with those Aristotle called the uneducated (those without formal knowledge of the given subject). As Einstein claimed, any idea worth its salt ought to be explainable to a reasonable intelligent 12 year old child. As C. S. Peirce puts it, a clear idea is one that is not mistaken for another, however technical and artificial one's language need become to express it. The point here is: tomato is not intellectually superior, he just knows about an academic subject within which ideas are defined in a clearer way.

[tomato]

I didn't mean to threaten anybody.
If I threatened you, I'm sorry.