Korean Job Discussion Forums

Koharski · Mod Team Joined: 20 Jul 2009

OK, OK.... that is enough of the extra stuff. If you want to continue acting like your students, then there are other sites that welcome that kind of garbage.

Discuss the topic like adult or stop posting in this thread....period.

Koharski

DaeguKid · Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Location: Daegu

Fox · Joined: 04 Mar 2009

recessiontime · Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:22 am Post subject:

steelrails I don't think you've understood my previous posts. Banks don't kick themselves when they lend money to Jenny Smith and she one day says to herself "screw it, I'm teaching overseas. Im going to default on my student loans teehee" The reason is because the government pays for those bad lending decisions by paying them off using your tax dollars. It's a really simple concept.

You also said something funny - that people should be able to return their degrees so they can get their money back. If this was possible, most would seeing how worthless it is in the job market back home. I can't tell you how many lawyers saddling 150k+ in student loans would give ANYTHING to be able to hit that reset button you jokingly mentioned.

I just want to say one thing to you. You don't understand human nature at all. People are selfish. I'm not trying to justify it, it's just a fact of life. If you give people motive and opportunity they will take it and run off into the sunset.

Here let me make it simple for you

MOTIVE: Don't want to pay 100000 USD if I can get away with it.

OPPORTUNITY: By moving overseas you can ditch your loans and get away with it with very minimal consequence.

MOTIVE + OPPORTUNITY = ILLEGAL STUFF

PatrickGHBusan · Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:00 am Post subject:

recessiontime you make an interesting point and base it entirely on your conception of human nature. Your conception falls into the Hobbs school of thought on human nature.

I actually share that opinion about human nature.

However, there are other factors that come into play when it comes to human nature and these come from living in a society right?

Just because the selfish impulse would push someone to do something illegal if it benefited them, it does not mean they will right?

Lets see, do you go around killing people or raping people? I think not.

The two examples above involve hurting people physically so lets move on...do you rob people and steal from them?

I think you would not do so (playing the odds here).

Now ask yourself why...

At the end of the day, no one forces anyone to take out a loan. These people make a choice and sadly that choice comes with obligations. Its not like the loan springs up on them out of nowhere. People who take on loans know the terms (or at least they should).

Now the argument about other financial obligations has been well made but the argument about credit card debts is bogus.

A person burdened with a student loan and maxed out credit cards can contact one of many financial institutions, including his own bank, to get a debt consolidation service. This will typically consolidate all your debts into one place at a far lower interest rate that what you pay on your credit card. So there goes the credit card excuse.

There is little that can be done if a person decides to default on his loans. The law will do what the law is supposed to do (which is not much in the way of jail time). That person's credit however will be ruined for years. Now ANYONE with an iota of common sense will see how important credit rating is for your future. It will play out when a person applies for a car loan, morgage and numerous other services. It will play out if a person wants to rent an appartment (many landlords run a credit check). It can even hurt employement in certain cases as many employers will run a credit score check because a history of debt is ared flag.

I suppose the above is consequence enough...

Finally, I think NYCGal made a valid point with regards to your average new graduate working in Korea.

Unposter · Joined: 04 Jun 2006

My definition of a simple moralist is someone who only sees things as black and white. Either it is right or it is wrong. For whatever reason, they don't seem to see or grasp the grey areas. For most, it is a permanent condition like color blindness. You can show them the grey but they just see black or white.

We live in a system of laws. If you get caught breaking the law and you are found guilty there is generally a variety of different penalties (for a lack of a better term due to my tiredness) the justice system inflects upon you.

Lending money is regulated by law. When you lend or borrow money, there are all sorts of rules as established by law. These rules try to cover everything (when they don't they are called loop holes) including what happens when you default on a loan.

I don't know what all are the consequences - I guess it affects your credit rating. It may affect other things too such as getting low paid work or renting an apartment I am not really sure. It doesn't matter.

Now, rational players from your average ESLer in Korea to Chase Manhattan Bank, may look at those consequences and determine what are those costs to me. If the costs of defaulting look better than the costs of paying the loan they may decide it is in their best interests to default.

Now, I don't know when those conditions exist. I can guess when the economy is bad and one's personal financial situation is difficult, one may look at it that way. It may come from hearing all sorts of stories about how financial institutions have been repackaging debt and selling it to investors who hope to eventually collect the debt but usually end up only getting a portion of it. When they hear these stories, especially the more horrorific stories about how such investment vehicles have devestated the economy affecting individuals ability to start their careers may even get angry and think no one is behaving properly in this system why should I? I can only imagine what runs through people's heads to think it is in their best interests to purposely default.

But, if they make that decision and live by its consquences then it is no skin off my back.

I couldn't stop the person anymore than I can get the simple moralists to see a shade of grey.

And, trust me the world is not going to stop. It will keep turning.

In one sense, in a perfect world, everyone will pay back their loans. In another sense, in a perfect world, there would be no loans.

Pefect worlds don't exist. Black and white does not exist. And, people, even businesses, sometimes strategically default. If banks can't live with that, they shouldn't be in the loan game.

But, I would add that I would not strategically default easily. I think you should really weigh the consequences. It may be much worse than you think. And, a lot of people here have recommended debt counciling. I would recommend that first before you strategically default. You may find that there are all sorts of ways to relieve your debt woes without strategicaly defaulting. Knowledge is power. Make sure you are not just taking the lazy way out. Check all your options first.

I think the OP had the right idea, though I am not sure I would have chosen Dave's for that forum, to hear out other people's experiences and see what was best for him.

A man is not a man unless he can make his own choices and live by their consequences.

While there may be a few exceptions such as murder, don't just tell a man, "No." Explain the pros and cons and let him make his own decisions. And, don't just give the cons. That is not making a decision with full knowledge. Show both sides if you can. That is what the open minded person does.