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nchannah
Joined: 13 May 2010
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 Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:20 am Post subject: students disrespecting you as a teacher and a human? |
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I work in a small hagwon and have one class of 10 students that is completely beyond out of control. They're about 5th grade, I guess. There's absolutely nothing I can do or say or yell that they will cause them to listen. They just wantonly roam the classroom, doing whatever the **** they want, even if I'm screaming my lungs out for them to sit down and open their books. They openly mock me, and not just when I tell them to do things - for instance, today I have a bad cold, so my voice is hoarse and nearly completely gone. They spent the entire class talking in mock hoarse voices to make fun of me. They aren't doing homework, I give them tests and they score in the low 20%s, even when I let them use the books - and they don't care. They apparently don't consider my class an actual class. They refuse to ask me questions in English - they ask in Korean, knowing I can't understand them, so they can laugh at me.
I won't put up with being treated like dirt any longer. If I was working at a public school, I'd have gone hardcore long ago - sending them home when they act up, writing letters to their parents, making them stay after class, etc. Unfortunately, because hogwans are businesses, I can't punish them as harshly as they deserve to be punished. Any ideas? Something needs to change before I lose it and punch one in the face. |
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interestedinhanguk
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Stand your ground. Start sending them out of class when they misbehave. Have them stand in the hall. Refuse to teach them until a K-teacher/administrator calls the parents. If a student is being really bad, make him/her know that he/she is not welcome. If they refuse to leave, alert a k-teacher/administrator and if they don't help, refuse to teach. Send notes to parents. Reward good behavior. Learn some Korean so you can call them out. Don't be afraid to crack a ruler on a table.
If your hagwon doesn't support you, then they will be left with the option of firing you. Good riddance to them and move on to a better school. |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:37 am Post subject: Re: students disrespecting you as a teacher and a human? |
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| nchannah wrote: |
| Unfortunately, because hogwans are businesses, I can't punish them as harshly as they deserve to be punished. |
B.S. The public schools is where discipline is hardest, from what I've heard. Certainly a class of ten students in a hagwon isn't as challenging. Nearly eight years of hagwon teaching and there isn't a class I haven't been able to handle.
I put the fear of god into them on day one and never, ever for a moment put up with any *beep*. Now, it seems like you have tried to be all smiley nice from day one and they realized they can walk all over you. (Studies show the most popular teachers are those that are hard at first, then relax and become more likeable later on. They are respected more too.) I make hell for them immediately if I get attitude and by putting just ONE on the spot, kicking them out into the hall, marching them to the director's office, is all it takes to get the rest in line. (Hell, even a squirt from my water pistol is enough to keep them in line.  )
A key is to KEEP THEM BUSY. Design your lessons to be very learner-centered (you do design lessons hopefully, not just "do" a book - if not, START. Sit down and plan out every five minute part, deciding what you want them to do, not at all to just sit and listen, have them doing), with lots of activities to engage and challenge them. Have rewards for those who begin to tote the line, like points toward a treat or sticker or anything.
Remember: There are no bad classes, only bad teaching (not bad teachers, bad teaching,.. clueless teachers maybe). |
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sulperman
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Make their leader your boy by sucking up to him. Then use him to control the rest of the class. Sounds lame, but that is your most effective tool in a class like that. And don't yell, but do talk sternly. Sounds like they have no respect for you, and that isn't going to change right away. You are going to have to gain it over time. Kids can be annoying, but don't let it get you down. If you start getting all uppity, thinking "how dare these kids treat me like this! I am a human being!" then that is when you are going to be most annoyed. And then they've got you.
Also, get that fantasy of being super teacher at PS out of your head right now. People get hung up on the hagwon being a business thing. But kids can be totally wild in a PS too, but in the PS it's 40 kids instead of 10. And you wouldn't be contacting their parents or sending them home. Hagwons, PS, it is all the same. But I would love to teach a class of 10 students again....that would be heaven. |
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nchannah
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:47 am Post subject: Re: students disrespecting you as a teacher and a human? |
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| Louis VI wrote: |
| I make hell for them immediately if I get attitude and by putting just ONE on the spot, kicking them out into the hall, marching them to the director's office, is all it takes to get the rest in line. |
Except that the director has already sided with the parents of one of these kids, accusing me of not being thorough enough with the book - when I told the student to do something in class, and she just didn't. I didn't miss anything, the kids refused to do it. I get the feeling if I marched a kid to the director, she'd say "oh, you poor thing," and then yell at me.
(My hogwon is brand new and in a very poor area - my director is very much concerned with not hurting any paycheck-I-mean-child's feelings.) |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:52 am Post subject: |
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As another poster stated, it may be too late for you to use the stick. Use the carrot. ENGAGE them in interactive, fun lessons they want to do. Make up cards for lessons, you know, with vocabulary and expressions, and have language games, where they have to put them together. Have extrinsic rewards at first, then as time goes on, lessen them and instrinsic rewards will kick in.
Whatever you do, don't punch them as you stated you feel like doing. Realize that at some level IT IS YOUR FAULT. You know it. Punch yourself. Then get on with the business of doing extra prep for THAT class. One hour out of class for every hour in. Keep them engaged. Not in robotic repetitive exercises but in thinking and guessing work. |
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nchannah
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| A key is to KEEP THEM BUSY. Design your lessons to be very learner-centered (you do design lessons hopefully, not just "do" a book - if not, START. Sit down and plan out every five minute part, deciding what you want them to do, not at all to just sit and listen, have them doing), with lots of activities to engage and challenge them. Have rewards for those who begin to tote the line, like points toward a treat or sticker or anything. |
Once I finally manage to get marginally straightened out just enough to actually accomplish something in class, what would you suggest as some particularly evil classroom activities that I could use in emergencies when things get out of hand? And how do I get them to start using English? |
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nchannah
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Whatever you do, don't punch them as you stated you feel like doing. Realize that at some level IT IS YOUR FAULT. You know it. Punch yourself. |
Yes, because I was obviously serious about wanting to punch a child. |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| nchannah wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Whatever you do, don't punch them as you stated you feel like doing. Realize that at some level IT IS YOUR FAULT. You know it. Punch yourself. |
Yes, because I was obviously serious about wanting to punch a child. |
And I obviously was recommending that you punch yourself in the face. Same-same. |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| nchannah wrote: |
| Once I finally manage to get marginally straightened out just enough to actually accomplish something in class, what would you suggest as some particularly evil classroom activities that I could use in emergencies when things get out of hand? And how do I get them to start using English? |
What is their level? Give an example of a lesson you need to prepare. |
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nchannah
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| No, you were obviously trying to be hostile for no reason. I'm not blaming myself for having no training or experience, that's just the fact of the matter. I came here asking for help precisely because I don't know what I'm doing, not because I want to beat myself up for having an out-of-control class. For a new teacher, I feel pretty damn good about the fact that all of my classes are going perfectly except for this one. So no, I am not going to blame myself. I'm going to figure out how to get the kids back in line. If you'd like to help with that, I'd appreciate it. |
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chicken_punch
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| Get a video camera. Use it. While using it don't yell and scream (actually, never yell and scream, it makes you look crazy). Act professionally. Show it to your boss. If they still side with the students, quit. |
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nchannah
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| They're about 5th grade. I need to prepare a lesson about insects - they need to read a story in our book about insects and understand it well enough to go on and complete several pages in the workbook with things like making WH questions, unscrambling sentences, matching and vocabulary. Because the story has a lot of hard vocabulary (mandible, thorax, antennae), they need to do a lot of vocabulary work. I have been giving them worksheets with a picture and the English word, and then trying to do matching...and that's usually as far as the lesson will get, what with all the trying-to-stop-them-from-stealing-my-personal-belongings. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: Re: students disrespecting you as a teacher and a human? |
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| nchannah wrote: |
I work in a small hagwon and have one class of 10 students that is completely beyond out of control. They're about 5th grade, I guess. There's absolutely nothing I can do or say or yell that they will cause them to listen. They just wantonly roam the classroom, doing whatever the **** they want, even if I'm screaming my lungs out for them to sit down and open their books. They openly mock me, and not just when I tell them to do things - for instance, today I have a bad cold, so my voice is hoarse and nearly completely gone. They spent the entire class talking in mock hoarse voices to make fun of me. They aren't doing homework, I give them tests and they score in the low 20%s, even when I let them use the books - and they don't care. They apparently don't consider my class an actual class. They refuse to ask me questions in English - they ask in Korean, knowing I can't understand them, so they can laugh at me.
I won't put up with being treated like dirt any longer. If I was working at a public school, I'd have gone hardcore long ago - sending them home when they act up, writing letters to their parents, making them stay after class, etc. Unfortunately, because hogwans are businesses, I can't punish them as harshly as they deserve to be punished. Any ideas? Something needs to change before I lose it and punch one in the face. |
I will try and respond to your post and I hope you take it the right way.
From your story it seems you may be somewhat inexperienced as a Teacher (if you are experienced I cannot fathom how you could be posting this). A troubled class is something every teacher experiences from time to time.
Losing control of a class is usually the result of inexperience and of a lack of classroom management skill.
These kids missbehave because they know they can. They also missbehave because they know they get a reaction out of you (screaming). Every time you lose your cool, you feed the monster and they win. The only way out of this is for YOU to sit down and figure out some rules for your class. These rules you can get from other experienced teachers or from online sources about classroom management.
Figuring out the rules is the EASY part. Enforcing them is the HARD part. Enforcing them CONSISTENTLY is the CRITICAL PART.
Once you draw up the rules, you explain them to your students. This will NOT have an immediate effect. You then need to enforce the rules but to do so FAIRLY and ABSOLUTELY without losing your temper. Anger is your enemy as you lose your cool and made make decisions. Controlled anger is however very effective.
Talk to your Korean co-workers and have the rules tranlated in Korean. Then post them in your class in English and Korean. When you geta new group, go through the rules with them.
The next thing you need to do is LOOK at your lessons. Are they designed in a way that will be engaging to the students? Are they geared to the level of your students? Are they varied in method and delivery? Are they structured in a building block manner?
A bad lesson is a sure way to cut yourself off at the knees as a Teacher. |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| nchannah wrote: |
| I need to prepare a lesson about insects - they need to read a story in our book about insects and understand it well enough to go on and complete several pages in the workbook with things like making WH questions, unscrambling sentences, matching and vocabulary. Because the story has a lot of hard vocabulary (mandible, thorax, antennae), they need to do a lot of vocabulary work. I have been giving them worksheets with a picture and the English word, and then trying to do matching... |
Start with some realia. A stag beetle has some pretty cool looking mandibles! In other words, start with a real bug! (and/or the next best thing - pictures of different real bugs. Tell them what the mandibles are on an impressive looking one, then hold two other pictures up and ask which insect has the bigger mandibles!) Show them, and ask questions about its parts. Put the name on the board of each student who responds with a question or answer (and add points for more such). Tell them there will be a bonus something for those with points the next time class is on a Friday (my technique).
Then, instead of matching on worksheets, make vocabulary cards, nothing professional, just the names of the insect parts and other key words on pieces of paper handwritten neatly. Put the cards in the shape of of an oval on a desk and tell them it'll be a bug race game. Roll a die and when their piece lands on a card they are to answer a question about that card to not have to go back to where they were. The first team (get them in pairs) to go around the "track" two or three or four times, wins! By the time they have done so they will have learned most of the cards. This "game" with cards is really a learning experience and ought to last 15-20 minutes.
The matching exercises should NOT be with pencil on paper, but be putting together cards, waaaaay more fun for them, but basically the same task. Award points for the teams that do it first and second and third (for at least HALF the class win points, not just one pairing).
These three tasks: 1) realia 2) card race 3) card matching should take up half to three quarters of a 50 minute class. Then jump into the reading with a pre-defined task. Tell them what they are reading for. What kind of questions will they have to be answering after? What will their post-reading task be? Let them know that they will have to do a post-reading task before they can go. (Hint: end class five minutes early, that is, the fast students, those who do the work, or at least more of it that others, can go five minutes early, while the rest have to keep working to finish/do more. It's amazing how much even a two minute difference in finishing time makes students hustle to get it done.)
Before you do this lesson. Write out each task, each block of time and imagine from the student's point of view what they will be required to do. They should NOT be required to "just listen" or "just read". Everything should be for a concrete almost immediate purpose. This may seem like a lot of work at first, but it gets easier and quicker with practice, and you only need it for one or two classes.
I also recommend you quickly seek out David Paul's Teaching English to Children in Asia, published by Pearson/Longman, ISBN 962-00-5251. It will help greatly. It's very focused on engaging the students and has tons of activity ideas.
Good luck.  |
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