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Illysook
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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 Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:50 am Post subject: Motivating High School Students. |
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I have very little input as far as student grades are concerned and they know it. All they want to do in my class is sleep and/or talk to their friends in Korean. It's a public high school. Most of my lessons are challenging for them, but not impossible. Last week, I covered sports idioms, this week I've been telling them how to smack talk while playing sports and computer games, or when talking about celebrities. I put a lot of work into planning these lessons and I could almost say that they enjoyed talking smack, however, I've been asked to create a new lesson plan because "some teachers" don't think that talking smack is educational.
Last week, I was told that sports idioms were too hard and that I should change my lesson. I didn't change it last week because I would not be able to do a good job on this weeks lesson plan and write another lesson for last week, plus I thought it was a good lesson. This week, I gave in, but I'm forced to use one of the "lessons in a can" from EFL classroom and if it goes well, I'll be really surprised.
So, how do you keep low to middling high school students awake and interested? I'm getting really frustrated. It's like one week I'm told that I don't need to teach grammar, but just give the kids a positive experience speaking English, and the following week when I'm actually pulling some speach out of them, they think my plan is "not educational." |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:30 am Post subject: |
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A goal and reward / punishment system would help you out.
Set out semester goals. Inside of the semester goals set monthly and weekly goals. Obviously the goals should progress from simple to difficult. As you progress through the goals and build towards the final set of goals, make and keep portfolios for the students. This will allow them to see their progress and give themselves sometime to use in college.
As for the rewards / punishments:
Rewards:
For the weekly rewards, start with something small like candy or some English game time. Build from there with each consecutive goal that is met. I.E. if they meet goals for a month straight they get a pizza party.
Punishments:
Similar to the goals, they should build in consequence each time goals are not met. For example, start with sometime simple, like extra homework, detention or something similar. From there, work up to cleaning the classroom, 1 on 1 meetings with Korean Teacher and Parent, Letter to parent, meeting with principal and so on.
I guess this goes without saying, but this will take a lot of preparation on your part and some effort put towards evaluating the students and record keeping. However, over the long haul it will more than be worthwhile. |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I've taken on a general policy of ignoring whatever my teachers tell me. On the very, very, very rare occasion, it's legitimate. The other 99% of the time they don't what the hell they're talking about. Or they're just using this as a convenient excuse to take potshots at you
Even though you've got your teaching formula. Try to keep things as varied as possible. Keep things 'Fresh' Example this week you do pictionaries with a dialogue and next week you do an activity and then a game. If they feel like it's the same weekly grind, they won't do it.
And last worse, comes to worse. You can do collective punishment. I found the tip on a site, forget where. Anyway 1 check = 1 minute. For every check the class gets they stay that much longer after class. Your school might say something to you about it. But don't worry whatever trouble you get into is actually worse for your KET. Since everyone knows it's not your job to do discipline, it's theirs.
To add on to SeoulNate. You can use a token system. You get x amount of points for good behavior and they can buy things from you: stickers, candy, pencils, ice cream. The great thing is, you can control the perceived value by playing supply and demand. (And people said, learning psych at uni isn't useful  |
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chicken_punch
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Motivating High School Students. |
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| Illysook wrote: |
I have very little input as far as student grades are concerned and they know it. All they want to do in my class is sleep and/or talk to their friends in Korean. It's a public high school. Most of my lessons are challenging for them, but not impossible. Last week, I covered sports idioms, this week I've been telling them how to smack talk while playing sports and computer games, or when talking about celebrities. I put a lot of work into planning these lessons and I could almost say that they enjoyed talking smack, however, I've been asked to create a new lesson plan because "some teachers" don't think that talking smack is educational.
Last week, I was told that sports idioms were too hard and that I should change my lesson. I didn't change it last week because I would not be able to do a good job on this weeks lesson plan and write another lesson for last week, plus I thought it was a good lesson. This week, I gave in, but I'm forced to use one of the "lessons in a can" from EFL classroom and if it goes well, I'll be really surprised.
So, how do you keep low to middling high school students awake and interested? I'm getting really frustrated. It's like one week I'm told that I don't need to teach grammar, but just give the kids a positive experience speaking English, and the following week when I'm actually pulling some speach out of them, they think my plan is "not educational." |
I agree with the teachers.
Why not talk to the teachers and see if you can be included in their grading? IF you have some lessons that they, and most normal people, think is beneficial to the students at that level and you can tell the teachers how this can motivate the students to learn, they may be on your side. |
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Dodgy Al
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Seoul
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schlotzy
Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with with most of the above posters. Positive reinforcement is just simple psych and can be used effectively in any classroom. However, I really that what's written below needs to be modified.
"To add on to SeoulNate. You can use a token system. You get x amount of points for good behavior and they can buy things from you: stickers, candy, pencils, ice cream. The great thing is, you can control the perceived value by playing supply and demand. (And people said, learning psych at uni isn't useful"
The token system is a great idea but it's more effective with younger students. I teach at an all boys high school. I'm pretty sure they don't care about earning enough token to get a pencil. And the problem with using this system at a public school, is that most of us teach like 500 different students only once a week. Maybe I only speak for myself here, but I feel like the amount of money required to build up a "rewards box" with things the students actually like for that many of them would get pretty astronimical. |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| schlotzy wrote: |
"To add on to SeoulNate. You can use a token system. You get x amount of points for good
The token system is a great idea but it's more effective with younger students. I teach at an all boys high school. I'm pretty sure they don't care about earning enough token to get a pencil. And the problem with using this system at a public school, is that most of us teach like 500 different students only once a week. |
Ditto: I have undergraduate and postgrad degrees in psych and they are worth squat when teaching high school 'vocational' classes. Really bad, unmotivated, unhappy, bordering on out-of-co-teacher-control classes just aren't interested in learning English, or rewards. They won't even fall for the trick of getting 5-10 mins of music videos for concentrating in class. These 'special' students just don't have a 'normal' concentration span/IQ.
What we find effective, (sometimes) with vocational classes, is a reward 'stamp' program. Each student who participates in class speaking demos, group speaking practice demos etc, gets a stamp on their hand out. These stamps can be traded for an end of year choco pie party.
But, some days................
My high school also runs a yellow/red card system. Misbehaving or rude kids are given yellow cards - and when they eventually get a red card, they have to sit at a desk in the hallway outside the teachers' office - and 'study' alone (read sleep). This doesn't seem to be an effective deterent to our 'special' students - as there is always a line up of kids 'studying' in the hallway. However, they don't like the desks that are outside the male toilets (man, those toilets stink). The red card kids also have to do school community service (cleaning rooms - cleaning toilets etc). Again, this doesn't really stop bad behavior or enourage / motivate bad students - but it's the only recourse for teachers who don't beat the kids (I don't agree with beating defenceless children either). Catch twenty two.
Good luck with it all. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Dodgy Al wrote: |
http://www.finchpark.com/books/tmms/
two years' worth of material right there. |
The Peer dictation activities are the best. However I think they work much better with after school programs. The survey activities are really good however they also tend to work much better with small groups. One of the biggest challenges with introducing this kind of material is it's reaction from the Korean co-teacher. Most KET's have never heard of Andrew Finch. A fact that I think is really shameful. If you plan to use this stuff make sure your Korean Co-teacher knows who he is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He is actually a well respected Univerisity teacher with a PHD. He has really high status in Korean society as well as being the president of Ko-Tesl. Don't let your K teacher think it's just more stuff you got off the internet. This material is really good when given half a chance. |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| oldfatfarang wrote: |
| schlotzy wrote: |
"To add on to SeoulNate. You can use a token system. You get x amount of points for good
The token system is a great idea but it's more effective with younger students. I teach at an all boys high school. I'm pretty sure they don't care about earning enough token to get a pencil. And the problem with using this system at a public school, is that most of us teach like 500 different students only once a week. |
Ditto: I have undergraduate and postgrad degrees in psych and they are worth squat when teaching high school 'vocational' classes. Really bad, unmotivated, unhappy, bordering on out-of-co-teacher-control classes just aren't interested in learning English, or rewards. They won't even fall for the trick of getting 5-10 mins of music videos for concentrating in class. These 'special' students just don't have a 'normal' concentration span/IQ.
What we find effective, (sometimes) with vocational classes, is a reward 'stamp' program. Each student who participates in class speaking demos, group speaking practice demos etc, gets a stamp on their hand out. These stamps can be traded for an end of year choco pie party.
But, some days................
My high school also runs a yellow/red card system. Misbehaving or rude kids are given yellow cards - and when they eventually get a red card, they have to sit at a desk in the hallway outside the teachers' office - and 'study' alone (read sleep). This doesn't seem to be an effective deterent to our 'special' students - as there is always a line up of kids 'studying' in the hallway. However, they don't like the desks that are outside the male toilets (man, those toilets stink). The red card kids also have to do school community service (cleaning rooms - cleaning toilets etc). Again, this doesn't really stop bad behavior or enourage / motivate bad students - but it's the only recourse for teachers who don't beat the kids (I don't agree with beating defenceless children either). Catch twenty two.
Good luck with it all. |
I've got to disagree with you. I teach at a technical high school. One of the lowest and the system's proven to be pretty effective. I use monopoly money with colored stamps on em so they can't photocopy it (You can get it on EFL Classroom). And the kids treat it like real money, sticking it in their wallets. And apparently it's worth enough to them, that they try to steal it. Whenever that happens, you just do the Kim Jong Il move and knock off a 0 or add a zero. And make em exchange their old bills. Whoever tries to exchange a stack is the one that jacked the old lot. You'd be surprised how many of them fall for this. 
You can do occasional sales too. Like this week 50% off on all items. Costs shouldn't be a major concern. If it is, than your not using the system right. A token system ISN'T about bribing, your basically doing baby steps with them, helping to create value in things they normally wouldn't care about, like studying. Once you've got that ball rolling, it becomes one of the perks of the NSET's class. But if your still worried about costs you can also easily control the # of points in circulation by not giving points as often.
Or you can always mess around with how much things cost. Like I charge 1500 pts for ice cream and they only get 100 pts on the rare occasions. Some will say it's not worth it, but you'll always see that 1 kid sitting in the back hoarding the points that no one else wants. And when he gets enough to buy ice cream and no one else can it pretty much wins everyone else over. As far as the students are concerned, it's not costing them 'Anything' to get points and by extension ice cream. Whether they like it or not, they have to go to class. Why not get 'something' out of it? |
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Illysook
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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I can defend talking smack for a few reasons.
1. I've been told that my job is not to teach grammar or reading but to provide a positive experience using English and talking smack is fun.
2. Talking smack about badly dressed celebrities was a good way of getting students to use similes and adjectives.
3. It's nothing that students don't do already. When they are gaming in the PC room, they boast about how great they are and say far worse things than "I'm going to wipe the floor with you!"
4. When they are talking trash, that flat recitation of preprogrammed sentence structures goes out the window and they begin using verbs correctly and emphatically.
5. This wasn't exactly an original idea, I found several examples of ESL teachers using smack talk as a lesson plan, borrowed the idea, and made it my own.
Still, I realize that you can't fight city hall and I've moved on to a few job interview questions. Next, I plan to look at that website that someone suggested. I've also rearranged my classroom. I've put the chairs in the front and the tables in the back. When we need the tables, we can use them, but they will no longer have something to lean over and sleep on when I'm presenting the material...or at least that is my hope, and if it doesn't work out, I can at least get a bit of a Hawthorne effect while I try it out. |
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Kaypea
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Illysook wrote: |
I can defend talking smack for a few reasons.
1. I've been told that my job is not to teach grammar or reading but to provide a positive experience using English and talking smack is fun.
2. Talking smack about badly dressed celebrities was a good way of getting students to use similes and adjectives.
3. It's nothing that students don't do already. When they are gaming in the PC room, they boast about how great they are and say far worse things than "I'm going to wipe the floor with you!"
4. When they are talking trash, that flat recitation of preprogrammed sentence structures goes out the window and they begin using verbs correctly and emphatically.
5. This wasn't exactly an original idea, I found several examples of ESL teachers using smack talk as a lesson plan, borrowed the idea, and made it my own.
Still, I realize that you can't fight city hall and I've moved on to a few job interview questions. Next, I plan to look at that website that someone suggested. I've also rearranged my classroom. I've put the chairs in the front and the tables in the back. When we need the tables, we can use them, but they will no longer have something to lean over and sleep on when I'm presenting the material...or at least that is my hope, and if it doesn't work out, I can at least get a bit of a Hawthorne effect while I try it out. |
This sounds good! Do you think it would be allowed if you called it "Describing People" or something? |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| winterfall wrote: |
| I've got to disagree with you. I teach at a technical high school. One of the lowest and the system's proven to be pretty effective. I use monopoly money with colored stamps on em so they can't photocopy it (You can get it on EFL Classroom). And the kids treat it like real money, sticking it in their wallets |
I'm glad your monopoly money reward schedule is working at your tech school. My brother was a psych nurse, and he used this system (points for pocket money) with his 3 boys - and overall it was pretty successful (although a lot of work keeping track of the weekly points).
However, some days nothings works with our 'vocational' students. They aren't normal students for this school - or our small rural town. These vocational students have been rejected from every high school in the nearby city (including the technical high schools). They have low IQ's, learning disabilities (in their own language), concentration problems - anger problems - you name it. Most are really nice kids - but they beyond 'teachable' some/most days. They don't want to be forced to commute out into the boonies to school (because they know they've been completely written off in the education system). So, nothing works somedays - not even the choco pie reward strategy.
These classes are so demanding - that my head co-teacher said that all the teachers are "mentally ill" most days (read very, very depressed). There's so many teachers trying to transfer out of this school - that there is a limit of 8 teachers a year that can transfer out of this mess. I'm lucky, in 6 months time when they're tucking into their reward choco pie party - I'll be waving goodbye at Incheon.
A case in point. My co-teacher was absent yesterday, so a Korean male teacher came to assist me in class (the school knows I won't teach this crowd solo). Five minutes into the group work and he's having a 'talk' with a student, another 5 minutes and he's talking with her at the back of the room. Voices are raised. Another 5 minutes and he's taking the kid outside. They were out there for another 15 minutes while they worked through her 'problem'. Basically, I taught the class solo - well, not the class, just the 5 kids who were trying. The rest of them - were off in their little worlds - just spinning. It's just beyond logical to expect kids like this to learn a foreign language. |
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RMNC
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Dodgy Al wrote: |
http://www.finchpark.com/books/tmms/
two years' worth of material right there. |
This site rules, seriously. |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| oldfatfarang wrote: |
| winterfall wrote: |
| I've got to disagree with you. I teach at a technical high school. One of the lowest and the system's proven to be pretty effective. I use monopoly money with colored stamps on em so they can't photocopy it (You can get it on EFL Classroom). And the kids treat it like real money, sticking it in their wallets |
I'm glad your monopoly money reward schedule is working at your tech school. My brother was a psych nurse, and he used this system (points for pocket money) with his 3 boys - and overall it was pretty successful (although a lot of work keeping track of the weekly points).
However, some days nothings works with our 'vocational' students. They aren't normal students for this school - or our small rural town. These vocational students have been rejected from every high school in the nearby city (including the technical high schools). They have low IQ's, learning disabilities (in their own language), concentration problems - anger problems - you name it. Most are really nice kids - but they beyond 'teachable' some/most days. They don't want to be forced to commute out into the boonies to school (because they know they've been completely written off in the education system). So, nothing works somedays - not even the choco pie reward strategy.
These classes are so demanding - that my head co-teacher said that all the teachers are "mentally ill" most days (read very, very depressed). There's so many teachers trying to transfer out of this school - that there is a limit of 8 teachers a year that can transfer out of this mess. I'm lucky, in 6 months time when they're tucking into their reward choco pie party - I'll be waving goodbye at Incheon.
A case in point. My co-teacher was absent yesterday, so a Korean male teacher came to assist me in class (the school knows I won't teach this crowd solo). Five minutes into the group work and he's having a 'talk' with a student, another 5 minutes and he's talking with her at the back of the room. Voices are raised. Another 5 minutes and he's taking the kid outside. They were out there for another 15 minutes while they worked through her 'problem'. Basically, I taught the class solo - well, not the class, just the 5 kids who were trying. The rest of them - were off in their little worlds - just spinning. It's just beyond logical to expect kids like this to learn a foreign language. |
I've had moments like this. Bouncing off walls, picking fights with each other. And your stuck in the corner playing riot duty. If you don't then eventually that kid's 'Friendly' slap to his friend's ribs becomes a full on fist fight that infects the rest of the class.
Once, some of my KETs had to go for reserve training so they combined their classes. I taught 80 kids from the car mechanics department, electronics, and computer programming in an auditorium, alone. That....... didn't work out. About 5 minutes into the class they were about 1 step short of a brawl. It's the first time I noticed there was some kind of serious rivalry between the departments.
In those cases you can try to divert their attention and give em a chance to calm down by playing something completed unrelated to lesson like pictionary like hangman of famous places in Korea with utterly crap, hand drawn pictures. Or wordsearches, they seem to love those. If you get them to do something, anything random for at least 10 minutes, that focusing time wears them out and they switch off from crazy mode. This and screaming really, really, really loud works. |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| winterfall wrote: |
In those cases you can try to divert their attention and give em a chance to calm down by playing something completed unrelated to lesson like pictionary like hangman of famous places in Korea with utterly crap, hand drawn pictures. Or wordsearches |
Ha. I used pictionary last week for the first time. It started off really well, but I made the mistake of making it a BAAM game (draw a BAAM card and you get to delete another team's points). BAAM is fun, and the academic kids loved it (friendly rivalry), but the vocational classes got really upset (anger problems) and we had to cancel one lesson early because they were threatening to punch each other (and this is a girls' school). Some tables were so frightened by the alpha bullies - they were cancelling their own points instead of the other teams. Classic. |
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