Korean Job Discussion Forums

[sojusucks]

http://www.freep.com/article/20100912/COL01/9120480/1001/NEWS/Koreas-kids-just-like-ours-100-years-ago

[northway]

On the whole he's right, but...

Where he's wrong: I really don't think Korean kids laugh any less than American kids. They might not participate in as many keggers, but he seems to buy into the stereotype of Korean children as miserable robots.

What he misses: The sheer amount of money put into a Korean child. American parents would seriously balk at spending the amount on education for an 8 year old that Koreans are willing to pour into their children. I have some kids who go to six or eight different hagwons for every subject imaginable. Time commitment aside, can you see American parents footing the bill for that?

[sulperman]

Interesting article. As for kids here being less happy, I don't necessarily think that. I think high achieving kids with really pushy parents have an infinitely more challenging and difficult life than their US counterparts. And the kids with pushy parents who struggle with school have the worst lives in the world.

But the slacker kids are bored, just as they are in the in the US. But their real punishment comes after graduation. Somebody who messes around in school or isn't inclined toward book-learnin' in US still has a pretty good shot at a high paying job. A technical HS graduate in the US can make an excellent living. One here is never going to have it that easy. The pay just isn't comparable. Which I think is one reason students here are pressured so hard to reach for the top. The top is the only road to a comfortable life.

At first when I came to Korea I was shocked when I saw kids coming home from Hagwons when I was walking home from a bar. And I still think that is a bit much. But after 5 years (gulp) I see the value in some extra education to try to get ahead. Would it really be that painful for American kids to go to a hagwon 3 times a week for an hour and a half each time to learn another language? I wish I had something like that pushed on me when I was a kid.

Also, Korean schools are quite s++t in many ways and part of the hagwon's role is to make up for that deficiency. But that's a whole other story.

[Gwangjuboy]

Isn't it Finland that we should be emulating as they achieve comparable results to Korea but with much less hours spent studying? In fact, they spend the least amount of hours in the classroom in the developed world.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8601207.stm

Sounds like a much worthier model of education doesn't it?

[gypsyfish]

Wow! Mitch spent a whole week here and knows enough to make comparisons.

Respect is paramount in Korea. They even have special words for older people. Well, they do have honorifics for older people/friends. There's more to respect than what you call them.

He forgot to add that education is the road to a better wife, too. (Unless not having a good one makes you a loser, I guess)

Maybe no school trips to Cancun, but a lot of my students travel on vacations. Of course they're in university and don't spend much time studying until after their military service.

And I flip past a lot of musical shows on TV with a lot of high schoolers in the audiences.

I wonder what Mitch did when he was in high school. I wonder if he participated in sports or the band, or did he head home to study.

Korean students drop out of US colleges because they can't adjust to the approach we take to learning. Maybe some, but some, who did well on their standardized tests like TOEFL because they were given the answers by their teachers and passed the tests with scores high enough to get in the school, all the while not having the language skills, might have dropped out because they really didn't have the language skills.

I'm not running down Korean students - they are products of their school system - a system that pushes rote learning more than creativity, that allows seniors who have gotten jobs before they graduated leave school to start work and give them their degrees anyway. I've taught excellent students, too. There are problems with education in the USA, too, but, if I had kids, I would tell them to think long and hard before they choose a Korean school over one in the USA. Especially high school.

Mitch wrote a good book, but I suggest he spend a bit more time than one week on a book tour before he compare US and Korea education systems.

[RMNC]

I'll take this with a little salt, considering he's not an expert on teaching, and is more an expert on spending Tuesdays with Morrie.

[Wishmaster]

Hey Mitch, let me know when you've been in Korea for a couple of years and then we can talk. One week? You sound just like a typical newbie. Stay here awhile and the layers reveal themselves. I'll address some of the points:

Respect for their elders: Got a big laugh out of this one. Hey Mitch, are these the elders that are hunched over and pushing mountains or cardboards? Or the ones on the side of the road selling vegetables? But I guess if you use honorifics then everything is A-ok.

Global leaders: Hey, let's ask Mitch Albom how we can become global leaders . Ah, Korea, still have the fantasy about leading the world. First off, you can't be a global leader if you are a homogenous hermit kingdom. Understand? Besides, Koreans are followers, not leaders. They are not creative nor innovative. Look at everything around you..cars, telephones, computers...Korea didn't invent any of it. Besides, if you were in a combat situation and your leaders were a Korean or an American, Canadian, Australian..would you really follow the advice of a Korean leader? Not me.

Korean education system: Boy, he needs some serious time here to really get impacted by it. Yeah, damn right nobody at home would adopt it...why? Because it is soul killing and sucks the life out of kids. That is why they have such high suicide rates here. They study, study, study and life passes them by. I would damn rather go on a vacation to Cancun and enjoy this short ass thing we call life rather than sit in a hagwon during my vacation. Geea, Mitch, you sure are green. The kids here are like robots and it is no wonder.

As far as goofy comedies, Mitch, have you see the gag concert? . Spend more than one week here, Mitch. Try two years and then get back to us.

[Mr. Pink]

[jvalmer]

I for one think the Korean education system, and parents insane drive, does it's job. Sure it may not be ideal. If I were an ethnic Korean, or had kids with an ethnic Korean, I would have no qualms putting them through the Korean education system.

As for hagwons, just say that I wouldn't want to see a bunch of bored teenagers roaming the street with nothing to do for most of the year. Hagwons are a necessary evil. Although I think they should restrict academic hagwons to only middle school and above.

[JC VT]

American schools could most definitely use an extra month.

Korean students could use a healthy dose of critical thinking and development of individual interests.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with jvalmer; I think Koreans should get started early when it's easier to learn a second language. I have too many 17 year old students trying to cram 12 years of English into 3 months for the SAT. If nothing else, they could develop basic literacy which extends further than standardized tests.

No one really knows why these Korean kids fail in US colleges and there is some controversy (well founded or not I don't know) about the statistics regarding drop out rates at Ivy League schools. If I had to hypothesize, it would have to be a combination of being far away from a social and familial support system, educational styles, a lack of critical thinking, unexpected freedom (and the inability to manage it) and a general Korean attitude about college (play time), among others. My kid is not going to go near the Korean educational system. But the American system could definitely use some tweaks like better teachers and more time spent in school (or learning at least).

[air76]

In all of my years here I have not seen 1 single aspect of the Korean education system that I would like to see implemented in my home country.

Any "advantage" that the Koreans may gain in primary school and high school is quickly lost at university. I could care less if the Chicken Shop Bike Delivery Guy in Gwangju has a slightly better grasp of differential equations than a ditch digger in Kentucky. If you stop comparing high school test scores and look at university graduates, I think that you'll find that those in the west are far more prepared for the real world, with a much broader education and the tools to actually put that education to work.

[jvalmer]

[chicken_punch]

[pkang0202]

I wish there was a homeschool/public school option.

I'd love to home school my kids in the core subjects, and then have them attend public school in the afternoons to learn extra curricular, and be able to join clubs, sports, etc...

[Unposter]

I don't know. Personally, I think in a general sense, I don't see anything wrong with what Talbot wrote. Obviously, people are individuals but more or less his description is fairly accurate.

What I do think needs to be done is put Obama's words in context. To a certain extent, this was diplomat Obama speeking. It was directed at a Korean audience not an American one. He wanted to say something nice about Korea and Koreans.

My interpretation of Obama's words would be wouldn't be nice if Americans were as obsessed about education not we should dublicate Korean school curriculum.

And, Talbot is right. It is cultural. The Korean education system developed out of a Korean history in a peculiarly Korean context dealing with problems in a Korean way. Not only can't it be done in America; it shouldn't.

Even the question he was asked about global leadership is a very Korean question and the fact that it was asked to an author that is nowhere near an expert in gloabl leadership is a very Korean thing to do.

IMHO, the problem with the American education is that it is so unequal. It can produce an Obama. But, it also produces technically illiterate high school graduates. There are also a number of students who just give up on themselves and usually when a student gives up on themselves it is because they don't have any support, familial or schoolwise to pick them up. There is also a lot of violence and other social problems that distract some students from getting an education. So, for some Americans, schooling is great and it benefits them. For others, it doesn't.

Extending school hours is not going to change that. Unless, the student has nothing to go home to. But, you do not have to stuff more academics down the kids throat unless of course that is what he or she wants.