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El Exigente
Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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 Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: Pentagon vs. Wikileaks |
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AlterNet / By Scott Thill
Wikileaks Prepares Next Big Document Dump, While Media and Pentagon Continue Smear Campaign Against Its Founder
Attacks on Wikileaks are really an attack on free speech says its founder, Julian Assange.
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September 20, 2010 | Scheduled for release in the next few weeks in concert with international and American media outlets, Wikileaks' data dump on Iraq could prove to be just as explosive as its download on Afghanistan.
According to Newsweek, the Iraq collection is already three times larger than the 92,000 Afghan field reports made public in Wikileaks' last release, and perhaps the largest in history. It predictably details American military participation in bloody conflicts as well as detainee abuse conducted by Iraqi security forces. It's unclear at this point if its documents were submitted by Private First Class Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. military intelligence analyst who was charged in July with leaking the chilling Collateral Murder video to Wikileaks. Manning is already looking at over 50 years in prison for Uniform Code of Military Justice violations of "transferring classified data onto his personal computer and adding unauthorized software to a classified computer system" and "communicating, transmitting and delivering national defense information to an unauthorized source."
After Collateral Murder went viral online and in real-time, Manning's whistle-blowing dominated the news cycle and even prompted U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen to clumsily claim that Wikileaks "might already have on their hands the blood of some young soldier." Although he may have been speaking only of Manning, Mullen's damning statement has yet to be fortified with hard evidence. The move swamped the American government and military with further shame, compounding the shame of pursuing two simultaneous wars that retired U.S. Army Colonel Ann Wright argued "have violated domestic and international law, violations that have been fully exposed in the WikiLeaks documents." |
Pentagon Seeks to Establish Basis for 1970`s Espionage Act Against Wikileaks
Posted: 2010/09/27
From: Mathaba
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Excerpts from Aug. 3, 2010 Pentagon Briefing From Spokesman Geoff Morrell.
Morell explained to reporters from around the world the alleged inherent risks and dangers of the content of the classified documents on the Wikileaks Web site. The briefing was part of the Pentagon's alleged attempt to minimize risk that foreign subversives might learn about the documents on the Wikileaks Web site.
But If the documents released to the Internet were the main problem with this situation, why would the Pentagon hold a press release to explain to reporters from around the world, as well as in a publicly available video, the exact nature of the content of those documents? Wouldn't they have been more effective with a quiet, private and direct effort?
Be sure to watch Morell's eyes bug out when a reporter asks him if the Pentagon is just bluffing. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Pentagon vs. Wikileaks |
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Attacks on Wikileaks are really an attack on free speech says its founder, Julian Assange.
yeah literally. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Wikileaks does not constitute an attack on all of free speech.
And yes if you release tactical documents you very well may be responsible (if not yet, eventually) for someone's death. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Wikileaks does not constitute an attack on all of free speech.
And yes if you release tactical documents you very well may be responsible (if not yet, eventually) for someone's death. |
Much more likely you will be responsible for saving lives, as the government is on record orchestrating many false flag events; lying to take the country to war, funding terrorists, and murdering innocent civilians deliberately. Whistleblowing = patriotism. |
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El Exigente
Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Wikileaks: Congressional Research Service says publishing Afghan war diaries not criminal
September 29, 2010 by donal brown
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| Although Wikileaks� foreign editors might be prosecuted under U.S. law for obtaining classified military records, it was not unlawful to publish the information, concluded a report from the Congressional Research Service. -db |
Secrecy News
Analysis
September 27, 2010
By Steven Aftergood |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Wikileaks does not constitute an attack on all of free speech.
And yes if you release tactical documents you very well may be responsible (if not yet, eventually) for someone's death. |
Much more likely you will be responsible for saving lives, as the government is on record orchestrating many false flag events; lying to take the country to war, funding terrorists, and murdering innocent civilians deliberately. Whistleblowing = patriotism. |
Saving lives how exactly? Who actually read this? I guarantee that many more foreign governments and extremists actually read through all of it than Americans did. It has accomplished nothing positive. |
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El Exigente
Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Wikileaks does not constitute an attack on all of free speech.
And yes if you release tactical documents you very well may be responsible (if not yet, eventually) for someone's death. |
Much more likely you will be responsible for saving lives, as the government is on record orchestrating many false flag events; lying to take the country to war, funding terrorists, and murdering innocent civilians deliberately. Whistleblowing = patriotism. |
Saving lives how exactly? Who actually read this? I guarantee that many more foreign governments and extremists actually read through all of it than Americans did. It has accomplished nothing positive. |
Saving lives in exactly the same way that the Pentagon Papers did. Or did Americans not read that either? |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| El Exigente wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Wikileaks does not constitute an attack on all of free speech.
And yes if you release tactical documents you very well may be responsible (if not yet, eventually) for someone's death. |
Much more likely you will be responsible for saving lives, as the government is on record orchestrating many false flag events; lying to take the country to war, funding terrorists, and murdering innocent civilians deliberately. Whistleblowing = patriotism. |
Saving lives how exactly? Who actually read this? I guarantee that many more foreign governments and extremists actually read through all of it than Americans did. It has accomplished nothing positive. |
Saving lives in exactly the same way that the Pentagon Papers did. Or did Americans not read that either? |
Because Vietnam and Afghanistan are the exact same situation? Has anything changed for the better since the release? |
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El Exigente
Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| El Exigente wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Wikileaks does not constitute an attack on all of free speech.
And yes if you release tactical documents you very well may be responsible (if not yet, eventually) for someone's death. |
Much more likely you will be responsible for saving lives, as the government is on record orchestrating many false flag events; lying to take the country to war, funding terrorists, and murdering innocent civilians deliberately. Whistleblowing = patriotism. |
Saving lives how exactly? Who actually read this? I guarantee that many more foreign governments and extremists actually read through all of it than Americans did. It has accomplished nothing positive. |
Saving lives in exactly the same way that the Pentagon Papers did. Or did Americans not read that either? |
Because Vietnam and Afghanistan are the exact same situation? Has anything changed for the better since the release? |
If it brings about the end of the war more quickly, it will have saved lives. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| El Exigente wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| El Exigente wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Wikileaks does not constitute an attack on all of free speech.
And yes if you release tactical documents you very well may be responsible (if not yet, eventually) for someone's death. |
Much more likely you will be responsible for saving lives, as the government is on record orchestrating many false flag events; lying to take the country to war, funding terrorists, and murdering innocent civilians deliberately. Whistleblowing = patriotism. |
Saving lives how exactly? Who actually read this? I guarantee that many more foreign governments and extremists actually read through all of it than Americans did. It has accomplished nothing positive. |
Saving lives in exactly the same way that the Pentagon Papers did. Or did Americans not read that either? |
Because Vietnam and Afghanistan are the exact same situation? Has anything changed for the better since the release? |
If it brings about the end of the war more quickly, it will have saved lives. |
Thats what I'm saying, there is no way that it will do that. The general public has already moved on, the only people still reading this are the people who are dead set against war and those who stand to gain by learning out tactical and strategical information. |
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El Exigente
Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| El Exigente wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| El Exigente wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Wikileaks does not constitute an attack on all of free speech.
And yes if you release tactical documents you very well may be responsible (if not yet, eventually) for someone's death. |
Much more likely you will be responsible for saving lives, as the government is on record orchestrating many false flag events; lying to take the country to war, funding terrorists, and murdering innocent civilians deliberately. Whistleblowing = patriotism. |
Saving lives how exactly? Who actually read this? I guarantee that many more foreign governments and extremists actually read through all of it than Americans did. It has accomplished nothing positive. |
Saving lives in exactly the same way that the Pentagon Papers did. Or did Americans not read that either? |
Because Vietnam and Afghanistan are the exact same situation? Has anything changed for the better since the release? |
If it brings about the end of the war more quickly, it will have saved lives. |
Thats what I'm saying, there is no way that it will do that. The general public has already moved on, the only people still reading this are the people who are dead set against war and those who stand to gain by learning out tactical and strategical information. |
You don't know what effects it might have down the line. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| El Exigente wrote: |
You don't know what effects it might have down the line. |
Especially since he's not actually done putting the information out there. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| El Exigente wrote: |
You don't know what effects it might have down the line. |
Especially since he's not actually done putting the information out there. |
You don't know the effects, both positive or negative. How high is the publics interest really in this war? It's not going to bring anyone back home, especially since there is already a deadline for withdrawals. It would have to be incredibly damming, and if it was he probably would have released it first. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| El Exigente wrote: |
You don't know what effects it might have down the line. |
Especially since he's not actually done putting the information out there. |
You don't know the effects, both positive or negative. |
That's true, no one here can claim to know the full, real world effects of this in the long run. What I do know, however, is what the real world effects should be: the American public revolting against this war, and against needless warfare in general. Assange is providing them with as much justification as they could ever need, in the military's own words. If the American public fails to act upon it, then to be honest I'm far more likely to condemn them than this man. He has a goal, and I approve of his goal. If the American public is unwilling to do its part, then blame them. It's not very satisfying to blame an entire culture though, is it? Far easier to speak ill of a man who by any reasonable standard is just trying to rile an apathetic group of people into action.
I agree, with regards to the task of causing the American public to wake up and realize this all needs to end, maybe he'll fail. Not doing anything, on the other hand, just makes it certain he will fail.
| Leon wrote: |
| It would have to be incredibly damming, and if it was he probably would have released it first. |
I was under the impression that his intention was to release the least controversial and damaging things first, in order to both show that he meant business, and to give the pentagon a chance to work with him to redact the remaining documents in order to protect genuinely innocent people and minimize their strategic value to America's enemies. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| El Exigente wrote: |
You don't know what effects it might have down the line. |
Especially since he's not actually done putting the information out there. |
You don't know the effects, both positive or negative. |
That's true, no one here can claim to know the full, real world effects of this in the long run. What I do know, however, is what the real world effects should be: the American public revolting against this war, and against needless warfare in general. Assange is providing them with as much justification as they could ever need, in the military's own words. If the American public fails to act upon it, then to be honest I'm far more likely to condemn them than this man. He has a goal, and I approve of his goal. If the American public is unwilling to do its part, then blame them. It's not very satisfying to blame an entire culture though, is it? Far easier to speak ill of a man who by any reasonable standard is just trying to rile an apathetic group of people into action.
I agree, with regards to the task of causing the American public to wake up and realize this all needs to end, maybe he'll fail. Not doing anything, on the other hand, just makes it certain he will fail.
| Leon wrote: |
| It would have to be incredibly damming, and if it was he probably would have released it first. |
I was under the impression that his intention was to release the least controversial and damaging things first, in order to both show that he meant business, and to give the pentagon a chance to work with him to redact the remaining documents in order to protect genuinely innocent people and minimize their strategic value to America's enemies. |
Thats the thing though, none of what was released, at least from what I've seen, is at all revelatory. Anyone with a sense of history, context, and current events could, and probably did, figure out most of it for themselves. As for everyone else it was just a blip on the evening news. The potential for bad from this is much higher than good. Who cares about wiki leaks intentions, it the results that matter. This war has a deadline, maybe it would be different if it didn't. If this came out a few years ago things might be different, but this war is winding down already. |
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