Korean Job Discussion Forums

[le-paul]

Is it just me or Koreans seem to treat foreigners worse than they would people from their own culture?.
Reading these threads, talking to friends and colleagues and my own personal experiences there seem to be certain running themes of lesser (perhaps discriminative) behaviour from Koreans. These are a few examples.
1/ a. the visa process � having to prove that you do not have aids/hiv/ are a drug addict. Korean teachers do not have to prove this before working with children. This practice has been outlawed in most other countries in the last 10 years.
b. police clearance. Most Koreans seem to have no concept of how difficult it is obtain one and seem to be lacking in empathy for the complicated nature of the process.
2/ - people arriving from a very long journey to be welcomed by a dirty/inhabitable apartment. Koreans would never do this to another Korean but seem to think nothing of doing it to a foreigner who has travelled for days etc. � A great welcome and start to a relationship!
3/ no help with teaching/training/induction � the assumption that since youre a foreigner and you speak English � youre a natural born teacher!??? A lot people who come here have never worked full let alone taught. How can Korean hogwan bosses not realise this and offer more training. Koreans get training!.
4/ Lack of cultural understanding � self explanatory really. But basically not even trying.
5/ Eating together and not inviting you/ going out and not inviting you. Ive seen this in a few places. My friends� hogwan even stole �stamps� from their pizzas and saved them up and ordered pizzas with them � without inviting them! Im pretty sure Koreans don�t forget to invite other Koreans on the whole.
6/ Taking advantage of the fact that people are ignorant of the law etc. and bullying them into submission firing them etc. I know Korean bosses do do this to Koreans � but it is massively worse considering the situation people are in with being vulnerable away from home.
Etc. etc. etc.

I read a recent thread which stated that almost 50 percent of new teachers; leave before 6 months. Its hardly surprising
Talking to Korean friends � they simply do not believe or cannot believe the stories I tell them of waygook treatment. Their answer is usually something to the effect of �but Koreans are really nice, koreans like foreigners� etc.

Im writing this because I need to rant � if I don�t ill take it out on my girlfriend and shes Korean and doesn�t need to hear this again. She�s one of the good ones and doesn�t understand how people can disregard the feelings of other humans and show such disrespect � the same as me�

[machoman]

i can't really relate with these things except for #1.

but i would have to assume that some koreans think foreigners come here as a paid holiday and don't really give a poo. i've taught in two middle schools here and was the first foreigner and have been treated very kindly. sometimes i WANT to sit alone during lunch and they still come over.

i taught in china for a year and heard only good things about china, but when i got there, i was treated kind of shitty and it's because the previous foreign teachers there built up such a horrible reputation that the faculty thought all the foreigners were just lazy bastards.

maybe your school in particular has had bad experiences with foreign teachers?

[diarmuid2k]

[diarmuid2k]

not sure why my beating a dead horse img didn't post... too bad....

[diarmuid2k]

As for employers taking advantage of you and twisting the law, that DOES happen a lot. Watch out for yourself. Educate yourself to PYA. That should have been done prior to arrival.

You wouldn't take a job at WalMart knowing the rep of that place, would you?

[le-paul]

diarmuid2k
if you re-read the post I said that I was pointing out running themes - not they were necessarily my own experiences.
Ive been here for 3 years and plan to stay longer. Im not just off a banana boat.
last week my friend got fired and thrown out on the street, and Ive seen 100s of other cases of example of mis-treatment (for example leaving appartments in shitty condition).

"Restrictions placed on foreign workers may seem silly to you"? WTF??


(apart from being completely patronising) That comment would indicate you yourself understand very little about the visa process.
There is nothing in an E2 visa process that states before a foreigner reicieves his/her visa that he has to give blood from his/her body to prove he doesnt have aids!
why dont you read this before you tell me im being 'silly'...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/15768998/Nhrck-Report-2

and who said anything about being at home? - im pointing out that putting people in dirty apartments is not normal. I know a lot of people this has happened too. I didnt say they should welcome us at the apprtment and then fill it with fluffy kittens and american flags - just clean it![/quote]

[Otherside]

1.a) Many reasons for this. First off, someone with HIV or a serious illness is more likely to be a burden on the health system. Secondly, would you want a teacher with TB or HIV teaching your kid? Hate to break it to you, but until you enter the country, you don't have any rights. Many Western countries only accept highly-skilled immigrants, that doesn't mean they can deport their own unemployed/unskilled citizens.
b) Yes it's a mission. But would you want someone with a criminal record teaching your kid? It's a pretty fair requirement, and it's your responsibility, not their problem.

2. Never happened to me or anyone I know (even the guys who got terrible jobs). More often than not there's someone to pick you up at the airport, and the apartments are atleast bearable. Exceptions do happen, and they can't be justified, but I wouldn't call it a Korean vs Foreigner thing.

3. I agree, it's a bit catch-22 though. Most public programmes and major chain hagwons offer those 1-day seminars (compulsory) every 3 months or so. Doesn't scratch the surface at all, and after you've been to 1 or 2, they're a total waste of time as it's always the same stuff. On the other hand, would YOU want to spend every Saturday for 6 months doing training? Many teachers only stay for a year (or even less, supposedly 34% dont even make 6months), so this would be a huge investment of time for little reward. From the school's perspective, it would be pretty expensive to run and if teachers leave after a year, they wouldn't get their investment back.

4. Agreed. On the other hand, you chose to come to Korea, it's really up to you to adapt. How much cultural understanding do we give the immigrants in our countries...it's pretty much "Westernise or be an outcast".

5. I was invited to every single function at my school (as were other teachers in other schools). It's actually rather awkward, and after you've been to a couple, you kinda wish they wouldn't invite you. I'd rather be off on Friday night, then spending it with my co-workers, most of whom don't speak English.

6. Agreed. This is a judgement on the "sleazier' Koreans and not Koreans in general. These are usually the same guys who would sell their mother down the river for a buck. The fact that you're a foreigner and it's easier to take advantage of you, is because they can. These guys often take advantage of the Korean staff too, it's just a bit harder.

[Kimchifart]

It's just racism. Being white, one doesn't often experience it. Welcome to Korea.

[Kurtz]

Sounds a bit whiny.

1) Check your home country's visa system, I doubt your country will let anyone waltz into your country and work for a year without a blood test and criminal check. Getting a blood test is no biggy for me, only the dope smokers and sex addicts who ride bareback in Thailand should be worried about that.

2) Cleanliness is a relative concept. Considering most of Korea resembles the inside of a public toilet, perhaps the average Korean's concept of a nice apartment differs to yours. Besides, it's for free right?

3) Yes, that sucks but the onus is on you to do some research and be prepared to hit the ground running. Also, remember in many cases you're just a face to add some credibility to a hagwon, or a sales tool to adjummas wanting a white face in the classroom.

4) Many Koreans haven't traveled very much, and the one's who have usually travel in a group or in a tour. I believe Korean's think they are the centre of the world, and their culture is number one. Remember, Korea is for Koreans.

5) A few reasons for this. Maybe they feel uncomfortable if you can't speak Korean, are doing it so you don't feel left out, or have not been accepted into the tribe yet. I've always been invited out, something which is a curse, I hate school dinners.

6) It's true, many hagwons bosses are complete snakes but again, one must do their homework.

I think white people get treated very well here. Try speaking to some SE Asians, especially those who have married here, their life is hell. Koreans get screwed a lot too, the concept of overtime pay doesn't seem to exist.

[mc_jc]

There seemed to have been a recurring theme in Korea where Koreans complain about the quality of foreigners teaching in Korean schools.
The question is; who's to blame- the Korean school that hired them or the teacher?
It seems that Koreans want a quality language education but at the same time, they don't want to pay through the roof for such an opportunity (given the number of articles in Korean newspapers that complained about private tuition getting expensive), so they hire any tom, dick or harry to teach in Korea.
When private schools hire a foreigner, it is done mostly for marketing reasons- who will attract young Koreans to study at their school- an old yet qualified and experienced educator or a brash young person who is attractive?
What most people don't understand, unless they've been in the game for a long while, is that ESL is more about money and less about education.
A long time ago, it used to be that foreigners who worked in the public schools were given the same perks as Korean teachers. Now, as the market gets saturated, conditions and salaries become stagnant.
And as the procedures to getting a teaching visa becomes stringent, the perception that ESLers are just mere 'backpackers' is still prevalent, which does nothing to help the image.
ESL has been a field in Korea for about twenty years, which is enough time for some foreigners to give some Koreans a bad perception of foreigners and so forth.

What people enter into now as an ESL teacher is a vicious circle that's been turning for a very long time.

[oldtactics]

It's racism and xenophobia. Happens in every country. It's happening now in Korea because they're newer at the immigration game than a lot of other places. Do some research into how immigrants are treated in other countries in the world, and I think you'll find the same thing, regardless of the job that they're doing. Other people said it better, and please don't think that I'm being unsympathetic, but your employer's responsibility isn't to make you feel comfortable or 'at home'. Their responsibility is to pay you, that's it.

[edwardcatflap]

I'm not an apologist or anything but here's my take on it

1) Other countries do this. I had to have 6 different blood tests to teach in Slovakia once. Aren't there some US companies that do this to their locally employed staff. Regular tests for alcohol/smoking/cannabis and the like? Statistically I imagine, you're far more likely to have the diseases they test for if you come from an English speaking country. However the employer should definitely pay for all your medical tests after they've accepted you for the job.
2) This is unacceptable I agree. Your first few days in the country will create a very strong impression on you. The apartment should be spotless, the hotel, if necessary should be a good one. There should be no teaching for at least two days and ideally a week of orientation and training before you enter the class room.
3) See above. However the hagwon business is a racket, as people frequently point out on here and as long as the parents are kept sweet, bosses don't care about training staff. Most of them wouldn't be able to train their staff if they wanted to anyway. People coming here to teach must be aware of this and make their own arrangements for training before they arrive.
4) This works both ways obviously and I don't think Koreans are any worse than Westerners.
5) This is bad manners and does happen a lot. However you also hear a lot about people being criticised for not wanting to join in with group eating so maybe Koreans have got the impression that's what Westerners prefer. It's certainly what i prefer. on the odd occasion I've been invited to join in, the loud eating noises, excessive slurping and general lack of any intelligent conversation has not enamoured me with the practice.
6) Yes this happens a lot but as has been said before, Hagwans are businesses on a very small scale and some of them are bound to be shady. Korea is not a developing country but, as a whole is probably behind most countries teachers come from in terms of corruption, efficient tax collection, fair business practices and the like. Potential teachers can get this information from their embassy website and should read it before coming

[edwardcatflap]

[PatrickGHBusan]

Since there are running themes lets discuss them.

[Slowmotion]

This is a stupid thread, think about how you're own country treats foreigners.