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captain kirk
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
Captain Kirk, you are a good writer.
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Apparently, but I don't have a novel subject yet. Nowadays I'm looking at all this NewAge stuff approaching 2012, it's pretty hairy, maybe I could write about that, it'd be fun.
Oldfatfarang, I'm sorry to hear you got canned. That's a very odd experience, like 'Valley of the Dolls' where the old boys created female robots and killed off their wives. Maybe the same thing will happen in Korea. Female NETs keep 'renewing' but they've long since been murdered and replaced by robots that look just like them, except they teach better, hahaha. |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| captain kirk wrote: |
| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
Captain Kirk, you are a good writer.
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Apparently, but I don't have a novel subject yet. Nowadays I'm looking at all this NewAge stuff approaching 2012, it's pretty hairy, maybe I could write about that, it'd be fun.
Oldfatfarang, I'm sorry to hear you got canned. That's a very odd experience, like 'Valley of the Dolls' where the old boys created female robots and killed off their wives. Maybe the same thing will happen in Korea. Female NETs keep 'renewing' but they've long since been murdered and replaced by robots that look just like them, except they teach better, hahaha. |
No worries. I only applied to get re-signed because they had changed the visa rules (at the end of my contract), and nobody knew what to do, or how long it was going to take to get all the docs together etc.
I didn't want to stay at that SMOE hellhole, and 2 of my co-teachers didn't want me there either. They weren't that impressed that I'd refused to sit with them in the teachers office - or teach with them for a week (because their violence to the kids had gotten out of control).
I still wonder why all the other older males were 'interviewed' separately.
Best thing that ever happened, really. I had a rest, then spent a year in a private all-girls religious school. What a wonderful year's teaching.
Good luck. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| And what constitutes qualified? I would have to say that one could gain that qualification from either coursework (TEFL certification, etc.) or experience. A number of posters here have gone well over five years teaching English in Korea. Unless they're completely brain dead, which I seriously doubt, they would be qualified in my opinion |
Don't agree with this. I think it has to be both. Unless your experience consists of on the job observations of you and by you, some people can easily teach badly for 5 years, get away with it and never improve. I've known people with MAs in linguistics and TEFL who have taught at universities for 10 years, have never been observed and ended up failing the CELTA. It happens quite a lot |
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bobbybigfoot
Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| I've known people with MAs in linguistics and TEFL who have taught at universities for 10 years, have never been observed and ended up failing the CELTA. It happens quite a lot |
I would assume this has more to do with an attitude problem. The MAs with 10 years experience probably felt they were more qualified that the people running the CELTA. Clash of personalities. Failure to adapt.
10 year MA TEFLer: "I've been doing this for X years and it has worked so no need to change."
CELTA dude: "You fail."
And by the way, why would an MA, with TEFL and 10 years experience bother getting a CELTA? Doesn't make sense. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yes it has got a lot to do with attitude but also the university teaching style often involves a ot of TTT behind the rostrum at the front with PPTs and a microphone. It often doesn't fit in with the communicative approach of the CELTA
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| And by the way, why would an MA, with TEFL and 10 years experience bother getting a CELTA? Doesn't make sense. |
Could be a number of reasons. Self-development. They realise that they've never actually learned how to teach people and they need the training. Sometimes it's because they don't want to work in Korea for the rest of their lives. Top jobs in most other countires require some kind of practical qualification. Other fields such as teacher training or examining require practical qualifications as well. Anyway I know a lot of CELTA trainers and they get a lot of people in that position. |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| And what constitutes qualified? I would have to say that one could gain that qualification from either coursework (TEFL certification, etc.) or experience. A number of posters here have gone well over five years teaching English in Korea. Unless they're completely brain dead, which I seriously doubt, they would be qualified in my opinion |
Don't agree with this. I think it has to be both. Unless your experience consists of on the job observations of you and by you, some people can easily teach badly for 5 years, get away with it and never improve. I've known people with MAs in linguistics and TEFL who have taught at universities for 10 years, have never been observed and ended up failing the CELTA. It happens quite a lot |
To be fair, all experienced teachers have problems on the CELTA course. CELTA is designed to produce robot teachers, each delivering lessons to an exact and rigid CELTA formula.
All the experienced teachers on my CELTA had trouble conforming to the rigid classroom environment. In contrast, brand new teachers, with zero classroom experience, sailed through (they didn't have years of practical teaching experience getting in the way of adopting the rigid formula).
Anyway, CELTA is a good course, and well worth doing. I'm glad I got mine.
Good luck. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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My MA included practical experience that was more than that included in the CELTA. Basically two semester long papers of observation by two or three professors at one time. Very intensive.
I do think some kind of observation is good however, getting observed by someone who is no better than yourself can be worse than nothing at all. So someone with observations by colleagues who themselves were not qualified and/or experienced might not be that worthwhile.
I often go observed in my previous jobs but the managers had less qualifications than me despite having more experience. The feedback I recieved by my uni professors was worth 1000 time that of another teacher. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| getting observed by someone who is no better than yourself can be worse than nothing at all. |
Don't agree with that either. By that reckoning you're a lot 'better' than the students you teach so why bother paying any attention to feedback from them either? If you're better qualified and experienced than the person who observes you, you should have the capability to sift the feedback you get into useful and non useful and learn at least something. It'd be pretty arrogant to assume you'd be 'better' than them in every regard. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| getting observed by someone who is no better than yourself can be worse than nothing at all. |
Don't agree with that either. By that reckoning you're a lot 'better' than the students you teach so why bother paying any attention to feedback from them either? If you're better qualified and experienced than the person who observes you, you should have the capability to sift the feedback you get into useful and non useful anpd learn at least something. It'd be pretty arrogant to assume you'd be 'better' than them in every regard. |
turning it around i doubt students would be happy if their teacher spoke worse English than them. Thats why you're here.
someone without experience or qualifications is only able to give limited advice, most of which is available upon self reflection. someone at your level or above can offer insights based on theories and research that can help you get to the next level. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| languistic wrote: |
| Nobody wants to admit that there are a lot of people "teaching" here that really shouldn't be |
I agree, but who's fault is that?
If they were genuine about wanting to improve educational standards, they would stipulate a TEFL cert as a visa requirement. Individual schools would hire experienced people rather than preferring 20 yr old grads.
But they won't. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I got into this in another thread, saying that people SHOULD have a degree in English, TESOL, or education, a CELTA (of course a MA would more than make up for that), and a clean CBC. It would benefit everyone. We'd get more respect (English majors are suffering back west, with the publishing industry going *beep* up) and the kids would learn a heck of a lot more from people who are qualified. |
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Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Plenty of comments in this thread like "Lots of teachers opposed to these changes, these are the crap teachers who'll be weeded out."
The truth is, most of us aren't opposed to evaluations at all. We're just worried about how they'll be implemented, and those of us with public school experience, can tell you what a joke the renewal/open class evaluations are. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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I like the open classes. The frantic headless-chicken running around by the KTs, my constant reassurance that they need not worry. It always goes well, and we get to go to dinner (and they now go for sashimi, since I always pass on the meatier options, so it's a lot of fun now).
Always carry your external hard drive and you'll always have a plethora of materials at hand. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Otherside wrote: |
Plenty of comments in this thread like "Lots of teachers opposed to these changes, these are the crap teachers who'll be weeded out."
The truth is, most of us aren't opposed to evaluations at all. We're just worried about how they'll be implemented, and those of us with public school experience, can tell you what a joke the renewal/open class evaluations are. |
Otherside hits the nail on the head here. If we had competent evaluations with decent feedback even newbie teachers could improve...heck some experienced teachers might also benefit. But as things currently stand they are indeed a joke. I've done 6 (six) open classes over the years at public school. I've also attended around 25-30 others at other schools. Every single one was a dog and pony show.
A few of the foreign teachers did raise good points, but on the other hand the criticism of the Korean administration/teachers seemed to focus ENTIRELY on who (the FT or the KT) was doing the majority of the talking. Unless the FT was doing about "70%" (which is a direct quote from the head of the POE) it wasn't a good class.
Yeah that's good feedback. Just talk a lot and you get a good evaluation? |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Pretty much. I let my KT set up the lesson for these performances (she really loves those laminated cards), but I still do the majority of the teaching and have the kids jumping out of their seats to answer questions. |
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