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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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 Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| theres a big difference between nationailsm and remembering the fallen who died for your country and the freedom of other nations isnt there? |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Although my father served in the Korean War before I was born (even before he and my mother had ever met) he died from a piece of shrapnel in his brain that happened while he was serving in the war. Caused no major problems for several years, then it moved and caused an aneurism. |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Korea does recognise the sacrifice of the NATO troops that fought in the Korean War.
The bridge over the Nakdong River (at Waegwan) has noticeboards with each countries flag and the number of their servicemen/women that fought alongside the Koreans.
Interestingly, the Waegwan battle (Nakdong Bridge) was where the North's advance was finally stopped. I once found a full clip of corroded army bullets on the shoreline of the Nakdong. These bullets must have been buried in the riverbed since the war - but had been dug up by the recent "Three/Four Rivers (Bank Accounts) construction.
Good luck. |
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wiganer
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| illvibetip wrote: |
| And, don't forget "Remembrance Day" in the UK is on Sunday. |
No, thats 'Remembrance Sunday' you are talking about - Remembrance day was yesterday and that's why the two minutes silence was observed all over the UK yesterday. |
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wiganer
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| take a rest wrote: |
| You know, I really hope that the people posting in this thread have never ever complained about Korean nationalism. |
What on earth has this thread got to do with nationalism? |
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wiganer
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
Unlike the Americans - we got absolutley nothing out of it once a truce had been brokered.
Details... How did the US benefit? Economic relations with SK? The Commonwelath was able to have those, too. |
The US benefited because they cemented their foothold in East Asia - South Korea and Japan were US colonies by proxy up until very recently. In fact, many would say they still are. I think the South Koreans have a lot to be thankful for in regards what the US has done for them but also the United States has benefited from their presence in Korea.
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| Why should we commemorate 'memorial day'? The Axis never invaded Britain for one, The United States were in Britain in late 1943 to help us and the Canadians liberate France. |
The Blitz. |
We fought the luftwaffe with the aid of Canadian and Australian pilots.
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| The Axis invaded plenty of the British Empire. |
No they didn't, the Axis took over Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaya and the Channel Islands.
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I'm sure the Americans were just 'helpers.'  |
See, when a post about this comes up on here - there is always some uppity American who starts talking nonsense and getting offended for no reason - of course the Americans helped! The Soviet Union helped, the Indians helped - it was a world war - the only difference between the states and everyone else is that America got rich from the back of it and thats why prosperity was afforded the working man in the 1950s in the United States when Briton's were still using food stamps.
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| The Americans surely reduced the damages of the Axis to the British significantly. |
Yes they did, the British and ANZAC's also reduced the damages of the Axis to the United States in the far east. Work's both ways this does - it was a world war!
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| I'm not saying you should commemorate Memorial Day. I'm saying thinking that Koreans should observe your day (2 minutes, whatever you want to call it) is equally ridiculous. |
It's not ridiculous when Koreans forget about the sacrifices made by other and chant their 'Korea no1' slogan as if their wealth and their prosperity was all of their own doing - the fact the Korean war isn't taught in schools is a disgrace. It is about time they were reminded.
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| Two - you made much money out of our defence against Hitler which was fully paid back in 2006 |
link? |
http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/news/finance/britain-makes-final-ww2-lend-lease-payment-$1034891.htm
http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/news/finance/britain-makes-final-ww2-lend-lease-payment-$1034891.htm
Whatever help you gave us has been paid back with interest. No GI ever killed an Axis soldier on British soil. We defended ourselves from the threat of Nazi Germany.
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| What American wars? 65 years? I can only think of Iraq and Afghanistan as American wars (as in wars that can be considered American) in which the British have been involved. (and that's not even discussing the fact that Al-Qaida has directly targeted the UK) |
Every war you have been in there has been Commonwealth forces by your side Vietnam, Somalia, Kuwait, Bosnia and Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon - keep naming them - every time America goes to war, they always ask for outside help and everytime, someone from the commonwealth will give it to you.
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| Who's to say I don't have gratitude? In fact, I've expressed it on numerous occasions. |
I am not here to bash America - America were important in the ending of Nazi domination in Europe. However Koreans are forgetting about the past, none of the students in my middle school knew anything about the Korean war - so no-one is telling them at home nor in the classroom and the nationalism is on their side! They should remember about the sacrifices made by others not so long ago. |
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interestedinhanguk
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| wiganer wrote: |
| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
Unlike the Americans - we got absolutley nothing out of it once a truce had been brokered.
Details... How did the US benefit? Economic relations with SK? The Commonwelath was able to have those, too. |
The US benefited because they cemented their foothold in East Asia - South Korea and Japan were US colonies by proxy up until very recently. In fact, many would say they still are. I think the South Koreans have a lot to be thankful for in regards what the US has done for them but also the United States has benefited from their presence in Korea. |
Ok. Explain how that's a benefit. Economic, right? What else, military bases?
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| Why should we commemorate 'memorial day'? The Axis never invaded Britain for one, The United States were in Britain in late 1943 to help us and the Canadians liberate France. |
The Blitz. |
We fought the luftwaffe with the aid of Canadian and Australian pilots. |
There were German airplanes in your airspace. Sounds like an invasion to me.
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| The Axis invaded plenty of the British Empire. |
No they didn't, the Axis took over Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaya and the Channel Islands. |
Burma, Andaman Islands, Invasion of India.
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| I'm sure the Americans were just 'helpers.' |
See, when a post about this comes up on here - there is always some uppity American who starts talking nonsense and getting offended for no reason - of course the Americans helped! The Soviet Union helped, the Indians helped - it was a world war - the only difference between the states and everyone else is that America got rich from the back of it and thats why prosperity was afforded the working man in the 1950s in the United States when Briton's were still using food stamps. |
And there's always a Brit to downplay the role Americans played (I'm not being serious). I think I mis-interpreted your use of the word 'help.'
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| I'm not saying you should commemorate Memorial Day. I'm saying thinking that Koreans should observe your day (2 minutes, whatever you want to call it) is equally ridiculous. |
It's not ridiculous when Koreans forget about the sacrifices made by other and chant their 'Korea no1' slogan as if their wealth and their prosperity was all of their own doing - the fact the Korean war isn't taught in schools is a disgrace. It is about time they were reminded. |
I'm all for promoting the remembering of those who fought, I think we agree on that. I take issue with the fact that it seems like you want them to do it on November 11 because that's when Commonwealth countries do it.[/quote]
Thanks for the link. That's not a huge amount of money. We just gave over 10 times that to the auto industry. 2% interest is not that great.
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| No GI ever killed an Axis soldier on British soil. We defended ourselves from the threat of Nazi Germany. |
Burma (British colony, right?)
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| What American wars? 65 years? I can only think of Iraq and Afghanistan as American wars (as in wars that can be considered American) in which the British have been involved. (and that's not even discussing the fact that Al-Qaida has directly targeted the UK) |
Every war you have been in there has been Commonwealth forces by your side Vietnam, Somalia, Kuwait, Bosnia and Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon - keep naming them - every time America goes to war, they always ask for outside help and everytime, someone from the commonwealth will give it to you. |
British is different from Commonwealth, no?
Somalia, Lebanon, Bosnia and Kosovo were American wars? Somalia could hardly be considered a war, more like a peacekeeping mission. And there were no British there; The British had no rule in the other countries, Pakistan and Malaysia, involved in Mogadishu or others in the Unified Task Force.
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| Who's to say I don't have gratitude? In fact, I've expressed it on numerous occasions. |
I am not here to bash America - America were important in the ending of Nazi domination in Europe. However Koreans are forgetting about the past, none of the students in my middle school knew anything about the Korean war - so no-one is telling them at home nor in the classroom and the nationalism is on their side! They should remember about the sacrifices made by others not so long ago. |
[/quote]
I agree, and it's a shame |
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kimchi_pizza
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Location: "Get back on the bus! Here it comes!"
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:59 am Post subject: |
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If Remembrance Day is really that important to some people, then gripping about who did what and for what reason isn't the way to go. Or
what isn't taught in school's or remembered by the general public.
Better to pick up a book about specific battles and read stories and true examples of an individual soldier's sacrifice, heroism and humanity.
By keeping alive the names and actions of individual soldiers is probably
the best way to honor what they did. Like any ol'soldier they don't want
to be....forgotten.
For my part...
I found the skeletal remains of an unidentified soldier north of Wonju last June and slated to be excavated by JPAC.
Tomorrow I'm heading to a lonely little town called Chipyong-ni to try to find one CPL Eugene L. Ottesen.
| Quote: |
OTTESEN EUGENE L Rank=CPL Serial Number=US57513689 Branch=Infantry
Military Occupation Specialty=04745 Year of Birth=31 Race=Caucasian
State of Residence=MN County of Residence=Steele
Unit=23rd Inf Reg Division=2nd Inf Div Type of Unit=Inf Regt
Place of Casualty=South Korea Date of Casualty (yymmdd)=51 02 15
Type of Casualty=Missing in Action, Declared Dead
Detail of Casualty=MIA/Missing in Action
Group of Casualty=Missing in Action, Declared Dead
Evacuation Disposition=
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http://www.2id.org/2-23-o.htm
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| ...The Chinese knew with some precision where to attack. The first blow was directed against the machine gun in the 3d Platoon's sector, and, within minutes, the gunner was wounded. His place was taken by Cpl. Eugene L. Ottesen, who kept his gun firing well into the night befoe he was eventually overwhelmed. Ottesen, whose body was never found, had a "US" prefix to his service number, which indicated that he was a draftee.... |
Wonju by J.D. Coleman
I have a fairly good idea of where he might be so that's gonna be my way of honoring him and others like him. Wish me luck. |
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wiganer
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
Why should we commemorate 'memorial day'? The Axis never invaded Britain for one, The United States were in Britain in late 1943 to help us and the Canadians liberate France. |
The Blitz.[/quote]
We fought the luftwaffe with the aid of Canadian and Australian pilots.[/quote]
There were German airplanes in your airspace. Sounds like an invasion to me.[/quote]
The Germans didn't invade Britain with the blitz - they attacked it, it was no more an invasion than the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.
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| The Axis invaded plenty of the British Empire. |
No they didn't, the Axis took over Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaya and the Channel Islands. [/quote]
Burma, Andaman Islands, Invasion of India.[/quote]
They didn't invade India, they didn't invade Burma either - the British were fighting the Japanese in Burma though. The Axis had invaded and controlled very little of the British Empire.
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| It's not ridiculous when Koreans forget about the sacrifices made by other and chant their 'Korea no1' slogan as if their wealth and their prosperity was all of their own doing - the fact the Korean war isn't taught in schools is a disgrace. It is about time they were reminded. |
I'm all for promoting the remembering of those who fought, I think we agree on that. I take issue with the fact that it seems like you want them to do it on November 11 because that's when Commonwealth countries do it.[/quote]
I want them to do it on November the 11th and I want them to do it on Memorial day also as well as the other memorial days (if they have them) of the other countries that sent soldiers to fight for Korean freedom. The reason I mention Remembrance day is because it happened a couple of days ago and yes I am British, it wasn't a barb to degenirate US involvment in the war in Korea, of course they were the main contributor but it is true that most Koreans have no clue nor any interest in the commonwealth and their involvment. Everytime something like this is posted on here, it turns into some pissing contest with some American who gets aggrived because it is being suggested that the United States didn't save the world single handedly. When I was in Korea - nothing would annoy me more (taking aside my own views on US foreign policy) than Koreans talking shite about Americans because if it wasn't for America - South Korea would be a big kimchi field under the gaze of the great leader. However, the United States didn't do it by themselves - sometimes it is right to post a timely reminders about this fact.
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/korea/gloster.html |
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interestedinhanguk
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:31 am Post subject: |
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The Axis invaded plenty of the British Empire.
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No they didn't, the Axis took over Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaya and the Channel Islands.
Burma, Andaman Islands, Invasion of India. |
They didn't invade India, they didn't invade Burma either - the British were fighting the Japanese in Burma though. The Axis had invaded and controlled very little of the British Empire. |
Look up the definition for invasion; it fits my argument.
Also, try googling what I stated.
How on earth was Burma not an invasion?
I don;t like using Wikipedia, but it serves its purpose here:
Andaman Islands (part of British India) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_and_occupation_of_the_Andaman_Islands_during_World_War_II
India (unsuccesful, but they did invade): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_Go_offensive
Also, don't forget:
Hong Kong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_Hong_Kong
Somaliland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_conquest_of_British_Somaliland
Also, Sudan, Kenya (relatively minor): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_African_Campaign_%28World_War_II%29 |
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wiganer
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
Look up the definition for invasion; it fits my argument. |
Using the word in it's broadest of terms thus using semantics - let's narrow it down to the militaristic meaning - an invasion of a land force usually means an army landing on the shore with use of the navy and air force - for example - the D-Day landings was an invasion, Pearl Harbour was not, Iwo Jima was an invasion, the London Blitz was not (a clue in what the Germans called it 'Blitzkrieg' which means rapid/fast fight) The Germans marching into Poland was an invasion, the attack on the twin towers by Al Qaeda was not.
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| How on earth was Burma not an invasion? |
You are right, I'll concede that but very little of the British Empire was occupied by Axis forces so you original statement was wrong. Most of the British Empire was in Africa and the Carribean at that point anyway.
Fair enough.
It was an attack or an offensive - it wasn't an invasion.
I conceded.
Yup, but they were soon removed.
A Relatively minor attack - and unsuccessful at that. What about the Japanese who took most of the US Pacific empire? How do you think it would have all panned out without the 2 million man Indian army fighting in Burma and the ANZACs fighting the Japanese in New Guinea?
Anyway - lets go back to the point, I found out that Americans observe November the 11th as 'Veterans day' So would you be against the good people of South Korea observing 'Veterans day' ? |
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interestedinhanguk
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| wiganer wrote: |
Anyway - lets go back to the point, I found out that Americans observe November the 11th as 'Veterans day' So would you be against the good people of South Korea observing 'Veterans day' ? |
No, but I don't expect them to. It's fine by me that they use the day to exchange pepero. Who cares? I guess every country that has been helped/saved by another should observe the memorial days of said helper/savior.
Korea has an Armed Forces Day. (South) Koreans have fought alongside Americans and made great sacrifices. Americans should respect and honor this, but should they tart observing Armed Forces Day? |
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wiganer
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
| wiganer wrote: |
Anyway - lets go back to the point, I found out that Americans observe November the 11th as 'Veterans day' So would you be against the good people of South Korea observing 'Veterans day' ? |
No, but I don't expect them to. It's fine by me that they use the day to exchange pepero. Who cares? I guess every country that has been helped/saved by another should observe the memorial days of said helper/savior.
Korea has an Armed Forces Day. (South) Koreans have fought alongside Americans and made great sacrifices. Americans should respect and honor this, but should they tart observing Armed Forces Day? |
Well, the Americans and their Commonwealth allies were instrumental in the birth and development of South Korea which is a bit different from the South Koreans helping out as military allies in Vietnam and Iraq. But you make a salient point though we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one - cheers my friend!  |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| wiganer wrote: |
| take a rest wrote: |
| You know, I really hope that the people posting in this thread have never ever complained about Korean nationalism. |
What on earth has this thread got to do with nationalism? |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism
after reading this I'm more confused than before I read it. |
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