Korean Job Discussion Forums

[gypsymaria]

The title of this thread may make you laugh, but I'm dealing with a very serious problem here, and one that I was admittedly not prepared to handle when I signed on for this teaching gig.

I work in a government-funded English Center, which is part hagwon-ish after-school English immersion program, part English language library, and part daycare center. I technically work for the school, but my co-teacher and I work upstairs in the two classrooms in the library. We have no phones in our rooms, and the computers are not networked to the rest of the school computers, so we have no way to contact the office when things go wrong. In some cases, I've trusted students to NOT destroy my classroom for a few minutes while I run down a flight of stairs and down the hall to the office, which takes me about 3 minutes in total transit time. I'm supposed to go to my co-teacher with problems, but she's often busy dealing with her own classes, and I hate to disrupt her while she's teaching (especially if her kids need that constant attention as well, since she doesn't have ANYONE to turn to for help, unless SHE wants to jog to the office).

So already, not an ideal setup.

Now, my students. They range in age from 6-14. Most of them are really good kids. Some of them have a few minor behavioral problems, but by using some of the classroom management techniques I've learned from my ESL course, other teachers, and websites, they usually shape up very quickly. Maybe I was spoiled, because I seem to have been punished with the Class from Hell.

The students in question are 5 years old, which makes them 4 by Western standards (Koreans always add an extra year to age, so I've been told). I'm not even sure they're old enough to be in a Korean kindergarten class. Their mothers signed them up for the class, ignoring the age requirements, and of course the school took their money. There are only 6 students per class for this Library Program I'm teaching, so that makes classroom management MUCH easier at times. However, nothing I do seems to work for this particular class of 5-year-old boys.

All boys. All trouble. When I try to get a game started and have them stand up from their seats, they immediately start running around the room and screaming. When I finally get them lined up and quiet for a moment to explain how the game works (using simple pantomime mostly, though I use very simple English as well so that they'll get used to hearing basic commands, things like "Line up", "Sit down", "Your turn, (student's name)", "Run here", "Pick up the card", etc), they just stop watching me and start hitting each other and shouting in Korean. It's not like the explanation of the game takes long-- 30 seconds, tops, and I'm pretty sure it's closer to 15 seconds without interruptions.

Today, I thought I had a game that couldn't possibly fail. We're learning numbers, so I had the cards placed around the room in easy-to-find spots. I would call out a number, and the students would race around the room trying to find the correct card, which they would place on the whiteboard ledge and shout back the number's name for a point. EVERY OTHER CLASS, this worked perfectly. Aside from a couple of minor squabbles and a couple of kids tripping over each other (nobody seriously hurt), this game was a hit.

Not these boys. Instead of picking up the cards (I demonstrated this for them very clearly, even going over it two more times when they didn't catch on), they would simply race to the farthest wall of the room and smack into it at full force, screaming like maniacs the whole while. Then, they would start hitting and shoving each other. I would be forced to run over to them and physically pull them apart, as saying "No! Stop!" very sternly and doing the "X" with my arms didn't seem to do the trick. They ignored me as though I were a ghost.

I would drag each boy to a separate chair, far enough away from each other to avoid more fighting, and we would stop to calm down. I would tell them, in a very quiet voice (but they were paying attention to me now!), that we don't fight. We play nicely, or the game stops. I tried to let my body language do most of the talking. They all nodded solemnly, as if they understood. I asked if they wanted to try the game again. They nodded eagerly. So, we tried again.

They'd stand still while I tried to show them the cards, and explain again how to play the game, but as soon as I cut them loose to get the cards, the nightmare just happened all over again. This time, it was game over. I had them all sit down in separate chairs again while I gathered up the cards myself. I set them aside.

We tried other activities. I read a book to them, had them chant back the numbers with me, which mostly just devolved into more incoherent shouts and Korean. I didn't dare give any of them pens or pencils to do the writing worksheets, after they'd tried to stab each other with scissors the previous week. So, we tried a new game with the flashcards.

I gave each boy some cards. I called out "Who has the 1?" and had them run up to me with the correct card. This worked MUCH better, and I thought I'd finally salvaged this mess of a class.

It all fell apart in an instant. One of the cards fell off the white board ledge, prompting giggles as I picked it up to put it back. Then, one of the boys had the bright idea of knocking more cards off. I gave him a stern look, said "No", and told him to pick them up. Instead of doing as I said, the other boys knocked all the cards on the floor and began stomping on them, shrieking hysterically.

I had them sit down again until they were calm. Then, I explained to them calmly, while going through the motions, that we were going to pick up the cards off the floor, and they would give the cards to me. They all nodded solemnly again. They stood up, but instead of picking up the cards, they just milled around and started "bumping" each other, a sure precursor to more shoving and hitting. I demonstrated again, bending down to pick up the cards and gesturing for them to do the same.

STOMP. STOMP STOMP STOMP. Shrieks and giggles, as they began stomping on the cards again, and this time my hands were in the way. I don't know how I managed to not scream as the heel of a boot came down on my right hand.

Back to the seats. I ignored the intense pain in one of my crushed fingers as I finished gathering the cards myself. Then, the timer went off, and it was time to go. I managed to herd them out to their waiting mothers, jaw clenched to keep from making any sounds of pain, and then went to my co-teacher to explain the situation.

She had to herd her own class downstairs to where the buses pick up, so she said "Later! Later!" and rushed past me.

I cleared up the classroom, using only my left hand, and then headed down to the office to ask for some medical tape. My right ring finger was throbbing, and would send horrible pain all the way up my arm if I moved it. I just wanted to tape it to another finger to minimize the movement.

It was after they got me the tape and demanded I explain what happened that I finally broke down a little bit. The pent up pain and frustration were just too much. Our "foreign teacher handler" walked me to the nearest doctor's office, where they took x-rays. Thankfully, not broken, just sprained and badly bruised. They gave me pain killers and sent me on my way.

I'm sure some of you have dealt with worse classes. I'm not asking for sympathy here, just advice. What do I do? How do I handle these kids? They don't understand a word of English, and they don't respect teachers (or even their own mothers, from the bratty behavior they exhibit outside of the classroom). I can't communicate to them the way I would older students, or to students who speak English already, so about 90% of my classroom management methods are useless. They don't understand my expectations of them, or when they're doing something wrong, and I don't know how to get through to them.

Aside from one other student (a girl who punched me in the crotch and then laughed when I told her "NO!", and I finally had to drag in my co-teacher to give her a talking to), most of my classes have been well-behaved. Even the occasional 'problem student' in other classes has reformed with a few stern looks, a simple command of "no", and rewards for good behavior. It's just this one class that completely escapes my control. I'm inexperienced with dealing with these kinds of violent kids, especially when they don't understand me and ignore me when I am TRYING to communicate with them. Where am I failing these kids? What am I doing wrong?

Snarky a-holes and trolls need not apply. Seriously. I'm looking for teacher-to-teacher help here, not forum drama. I've had enough crap for one day.

[Vix]

Wow that sucks! It really sounds like you are doing everything right and they have some sort of disposition. The only thing I can think to try is getting something long and sharp and threatening them with violence if that's all they understand. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying hit the kids but maybe hit the desk and imply they are next. The threat might be enough to get it into their brains they are way out of line. This is just an idea, doesn't sound like you have anything to lose. Best of luck!

[gypsymaria]

I did smack a flyswatter on the table to get their attention a few times. That worked pretty well. I don't think I'm allowed to threaten them, though. We're supposed to use disciplinary techniques that don't use "embarrassing or physically harmful methods".

I was using the swatter for a game in the other kindie classes, but it seemed like it was a bad idea to give these little animals a weapon so we didn't play that game.

Oh, something I forgot to mention: There used to be two other boys in the class, one of which was removed for hitting, the other removed because (as his mother explained to our office staff), "He won't respect a female teacher. It has to be a man." So he was transferred to another class.

I don't think it'll help much. I'm not particularly feminine, and though I'm the nicest, friendliest teacher around when the kids are on good behavior, I can pull out the strict and stern just fine. I was a nanny for two rowdy kids, aged 2 and 4, before I came to Korea, and while they were difficult at times, they DID respect and listen to me. Of course, it helped that I could communicate with them, so they knew what I expected of them, what they were responsible for, and what would happen if they disobeyed.

Any good tips for non-verbal communication, or at least some good basic phrases in Korean I should know? I'm not supposed to speak Korean to the kids (which isn't a problem, because the only words I ever say to ANY of them are the ones for "water" and "bathroom", and only because parents complain if their kids get thirsty or piss themselves in class), but I may be willing to bend that rule for this particular problem class. If I can't break the communication barrier through body-language and behavioral cues, I may just need to use some Korean to get the point across. It's what my co-teacher winds up doing, anyway. =_=

[earthquakez]

Calm down - they're not only 4 year olds but 4 year old Korean boys. A long time ago I taught kindergarten in Japan. I managed to have fun, productive classes with 20 Japanese kids, boys and girls. They sat down. They learnt easily by repeating. They sang songs. Not one kid was rude to me. If I dropped a card or made a mistake they said in Japanese 'Daijobu desu". Polite way of saying "It's okay".

Korean kindergarten kids, especially boys, will usually not do this. The problem comes from the parents. I've seen Japanese parents whack their kids on the arm for not being polite to me. How many Korean parents would discipline their kids for being rude to a foreigner? Very few I think. And I've never seen it.

But remember that these kids are Korean boys. They're encouraged to be rude and run around and do what they like by their parents when it comes to other people. You're going to have to stop the kind of teaching you're doing if you want to make progress. Channel their energy into singing and dancing. Start the class with a fun song that involves them doing movements. They'll catch on when you're doing it in front of the class.

Then do some counting. Get them to clap the numbers up to whatever you teach them. Write the numbers on the board and then get the kids to come up and copy them in pairs.Help them if they can't. I know the running around is a problem but doing activities in pairs is going to settle them more. Then do another song like 'Shut them open". I've never met kids that age who didn't love that song. You do the actions with them.

Then show them alphabet cards - big ones. Shout A and get them to shout back, go through others but not all of the alphabet if their concentration is bad. Review by doing a congo line - you're at the front and you kick your legs out, left and right, and shout A and they respond.

Verb cards - show them and do the action at the same time. They'll enjoy it because they're restless and want to move. You sound like you're doing too much talking to them. And how long are the lessons? In Japan I never had a kindy class that was longer than 30 minutes. In Korea sometimes lessons for kids with little concentration are far too long.

[interestedinhanguk]

I know it's not helping but.. I love teaching kindergarten but I despise teaching 5 year olds (K-age).

[Dedeko]

Not really knowing how long your class with these bundles of joy are, but here are some things I do for a 50/50 unruly class.

You gotta engage them in all levels is what I attempt to do. I start out with a song (Hokey Pokey works wonders). Sit down and finger count, then toe count. Shape proper answers with candy OCCASIONALLY, not tons. If a kids sad, to bad so sad. Part of kindergarten is also learning you don't always get what you want.

I use this letter set (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesdavid/sets/72157613157333670/) because ALL kindergarten kids LOVE monsters. I start with an alphabet scavenger hunt by before the kids arrive I hide/put a laminated alphabet all over the room. When he/she gets the right letter, it's all high fives, dancing and whatever else positive reinforcement I can think of within reason. Then they will compete and get the letters when I call them out. I do some tracing of letters starting with their finger, then pick other parts of the body, tongue, nose, foot. Depending on their motor ability you can get them to just trace different lines, like zig zags, wavy lines, and other assorted things. Eventually if you can get them sitting down to actually trace letters, at the end I let them make their own letter monsters with crayons. I make the giant block letters on a piece of paper and just let them go nuts with coloring. Once they are finished, they can roar until they are blue in the face. That's an activity to do towards the end of the class.
Also, once down and unable to yell anymore, I will make the letter monster into a paper airplane. Label the plane with their name avoid some fights.
When child X jumps to the reward instead of doing their work, I point to their paper and be sad pointing to each item they didn't do.

One thing I don't deal with is kids punching other kids, if that happens I flat out tell the 4/5 year old to get out of the classroom. For some reason they fear this with tears, wet noodle body and anything else. If the kids running in the hall crazy the co teacher might have to actually do their job which is shocking.

If it's your coteachers job to deal with monkeys on acid. You inconvience her/him. If you let anything slide just a little they will PILE it onto you.

Other things that worked for me, go fish with the higher ages, memory game is a huge hit, but memory took a few tries for the smaller ones.

[interestedinhanguk]

[gypsymaria]

earthquakez: Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely try some of those methods. Some of them I'm familiar with, but a few I haven't used yet.

I try not to talk much in kindie classes, as they don't understand much of what I say anyway. I read the books out loud, because that's what we HAVE to do for the program, but they're short books and usually the kids will at least sit down for them (levels of quietness vary). I use single words and short 2-3 word phrases to supplement my actions when I show them how to play a game (and I do my best to keep the games VERY VERY simple).

The problem is getting them to DO anything in the first place. If I try to sing a song with them, or do a dance, they just run around and scream and do their own thing anyway. I get that they're energetic, which was why I tried to funnel that into the more energetic running-around type games and avoided the flash card drilling games that they ignore completely (but some other classes really get into it).

I need some kickstarter ideas. Getting their attention and holding it for more than three seconds. Getting them to understand I want them to SAY the words that I'm saying instead of just screaming in Korean when I hold up a picture card. Getting them to stop leaping on each other and fighting like wild animals every time they get out of their seats.

The office won't do anything, and my coteacher will just coo at them in Korean and pat their precious little heads. It's going to be up to me to handle this, one way or another.

Keep the suggestions coming, folks! I have a notepad right here, and I'm writing them down.

ETA: Ah, and yeah, the classes are 40 minutes long. Even my best-behaved kindies get restless after that long. I keep activities short and varied, around 5 minutes long each, 10 for crafts because that actually keeps them pretty well occupied.

[gypsymaria]

Dadeko: Some more good suggestions, thank you! Unfortunately, my coteacher is always teaching another class while I'm teaching my own, so really she just handles the parents and explains homework when the older kids get confused. So, if I drag her away from her class, she may come back to find her own room full of insane students. I just have to tell her what happened after classes, and then she calls parents.

I never use candy bribes. I've never found them effective as a nanny, and I didn't want to get into the habit as a teacher. I suppose if they work for Korean kids, though, I'll have to invest in some bags of the stuff. Maybe THAT will get the nightmare class' attention!

[gypsymaria]

As for sending kids out of the classroom, unfortunately, that doesn't work at all for me.

1. We're not allowed to send kids out of the room. We are EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN FROM DOING SO. That would be inflicting them upon the rest of the library, and the library staff would murder us all.

2. Their mothers are hovering RIGHT OUTSIDE THE DOOR, and if I send them out, they just go crying to Oma about Mean Foreign Teacher, and Oma will come in to give me an earful in Korean (of which I understand all of five words, and none of them are useful in that situation).

Yeah... I need a better way to contact my co-teacher for emergencies. Maybe we should get those little buzzer things they use at Lotteria. <_<

[earthquakez]

It was easier for me too because I could teach anyway I wanted to. The school gave me a lot of leeway and I never read books to my J kids.

Interestedinhanguk - I actually didn't teach in Japan that long ago, it just seems like it so maybe people on the forum might think I've got an old fashioned idea of Japanese kids. But while it sounds unfair to Korean kids, I honestly think that Korean kids are allowed to get away with a lot more disrespect.

There's also the habit of singling out others for criticism which seems to be instilled in an early age in Korea. I'm not saying Japan is better than Korea - both countries have their merits and disadvantages. But Japanese kids are brought up to be less unruly and I noticed in all the kids' classes I taught (kindie and up) that there was a lot more sense of the group understanding what is acceptable and what is not.

And a lot of it comes down to the parents. You'll often hear Japanese parents tell their kids 'Gaman!' Endure! Often that just means Shut up! Listen! Stop your nonsense!

Out on the street in Korea it's not unusual for kids to say all sorts of things to and about a foreigner in earshot while the parents just stand there as if it's the most natural thing in the world. I'm referring to rude/inappropriate things. By contrast it's not usual for a Japanese parent to behave that way - they usually get embarrassed by their kids' rudeness and will do something.

[debb199]

Have you tried using some sort of reward system for good behaviour? The most popular one is using sticker boards - once they have collected a set of stickers, they can exchange for a small gift, eg coloured pencils, erasers etc. Works best if you write all their names on the board and keep a daily tally of their stickers, so they can see that they gain stickers for good behaviour and lose stickers for bad behaviour.

[fugitive chicken]

[blackjack]

Have you tried the team approach give them plus/minus points for participating/bad behaviour. The winning team gets to leave first. I have two teams the lions and tigers

This way they become self policing. You need a sign that you want silence in the classroom, for me, I raise my hand in the air and extend my fingers one by one. If the kids are still talking then minus points.

I find this works quite well, however it is possible to have one or two kids not care what the others think. For these ones I use the yellow card red card, once they are in the red card zone every time they misbehave they get a mark, these represent minutes after class they have to sit in silence.

[le-paul]

my advice -

go on you youtube and watch some of those tv shows by that supernanny woman.
I leannred a lot from her because. She is an ideal disciplinarian. Mostly because she doesnt have to resort to physical punishment.

Forget esl management stuff at the moment man (thats usually for older kids anyway) if its that bad. You want to be looking at everyday, child discipline/human growth and development stuff like 'programming' them to behave (you ever seen kindergarden cop?).
EG's
- putting one bad kid in the naughty corner and completely ignoring him until he will behave.
- not getting into 'reasoning with them' - you command - they do - end.- no games until the whole class are behaving.

problem is, they wont be learning this at home. And people learn at all ages. If youve read anything about development, youll know that 4 is a very important age for learning about boundries.

Famous korean sayings include;
'oh, theyre only kids...'.