Korean Job Discussion Forums

[winterfall]

I teach at a tech school and usually week to week, I can get somewhere between 80-90% participation in lessons. They do the work, sometimes they learn, sometimes they don't. Its hard to tell, cause tech kid's minds are like the old floppy disks. You can only fit one file at a time. If they learn anything new, it copies over the old one.

But no matter what I do and I really have tried literally everything. There's some classes where at least 80% of the students just don't care. If they just stopped complaining about how hard it is, (which it really isn't) they could do the work. How do I know it's this easy? Because while the rest of the class spent the whole time complaining about how hard it was no matter how much 1 on 1 time me and the KET gave them. The only ones that could do the work were: the deaf and mentally challenged kid that sit alone in the back of the room. And they did it fast, the worksheet only took 10 minutes. So it's REALLY not THAT HARD.

I've ended up splitting those classes. The ones that care sit in the front and I teach them like I normally do. While the rest sit in the back and I don't bother teaching them anymore, all they ever do is cause problems or complain. They complain for the sake complaining. The only thing they get now are wordsearches (With this week's language focus), unrelated mazes, and coloring books (With the same language focus) to keep them quiet.

I've been feeling a bit guilty about it but spending all my time disciplining the 80% isn't fair to the ones that do care, they're not rocket scientists but, at least they try. Has anyone else had something like this? How do you deal with the borderline hopeless ones?? Is there anything you can do besides throwing in the towel?

[Louis VI]

Serious problem teacher.

I never met a serious problem student in 8 years here. Sure, I've sent a student out into the hallway a few times, but no ongoing problems.

But I don't teach high school or college students, so that may be the difference.

[Summer Wine]

I found when I was teaching in a tech high school a similar situation. I tended to try and use activities that were more competitive based. So they could actually compete with a different table.

I had my classes separated into tables of 5-6. This broke down the group mentality and allowed me to focus on one table while a co-teacher focused on another. In saying that some tables just refused to try and participate, but others got into it as their table was not being influenced by others.

I tried to take the worst student and make him responsible for the table. I even let the performing students go a little early. This might mean 1 table left early and the rest had to accept that.

Its not easy, I understand. Though they have some of the most open personalities as well. If the school will or you can afford it, try and get some board games and use them to help the kids learn.

I didn't re-sign for a third year, but I was told that if I had, I was just expected to play games with them, thats all the teachers and students wanted. So find out what they want, it may be simple english but I have found that every lesson that requires a level of real thinking to be considered too difficult for some of them.

If others come on here and state they dont have problems, blah, blah, blah unless they have worked or do work in a tech school ignore them or tell them to step up and take those schools as the students deserve the wonderful teachers they imagine themselves to be.

[winterfall]

[sluggo832004]

Oh man. I cant wait to get to Korea. I teach in a high school now.

Im aware there are some really bad teachers in this world, with no classroom management whatsoever. But trust me, there are some students that can completely screw up your whole classroom.

Im about as cool and even headed as they come. But there are some students that I literally had to cuss out and get in their face to show them that this isnt their house, and I run this classroom.

For all the teachers that claim they never have a problem student, please come to America and join us please. lol. But like I said, some people really dont need to be teaching. But, no matter how interesting your classes are, you will eventually get that student who just wants to screw it up just cause.

[Summer Wine]

Have you asked the korean co-teachers what they do with the class, when they teach by themselves?

Is it that they just arent interested in studying english or do they have similar attitudes in other classes?

I also didn't think you meant all your classes. I had probably 2-3 classes similar to yours but never 80% maybe 20% though I cant say they ever studied. 1 student in particular refused to study under any teacher - he also had some serious money though, so probably didn't think he had too.

You might have to get the korean teachers to come up with the answer and they might just say "forget them, focus on the ones that will learn and accept that you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink".

No real help I understand.

[oldfatfarang]

Op. I hear you. Anyone who's got whole classes of 'special' students also hears you.

I've had to completely change my game plan (and mindset) to teach my special vocational HS classes. Unbeknown to me at the start of the year, it took about 4 months for me to realise that my special HS classes were just dumping grounds for kids who couldn't be accepted in any normal (or technical) school in the nearby city. Out of sight, out of mind.

So, ..... I just gave up (a bit). I now teach the 20% of the kids who try - and then go around the other tables. Interestingly, some of the non-tryers can be coaxed into completing handouts/speaking if you give them some special individual attention. However, that only works when they're not spinning out because of some other 'problem' at school/home. Most have behavioral/attitude/psychological/attention/low IQ problems.

We have 2 second year high school classes that are really 'teacher spirit breakers'. Some days they can be coaxed, but on other days they are just out of control. We also have one or two tables in each vocational class that are sometimes out of control. Nothing seems to work, and the Korean teachers just teach around them (and now I do to).

I've learnt a lot about teaching this year. Funny, but my co-teacher helped me when she once let slip: "Kindergarten students." The light bulb came on, and I started treating them like kindy kids (10 min attention spans, lots of activity, games, shouting drills etc). It works some days.

Hint. My special classes love art (and drawing). I teach art a lot and Art-English classes are the only ones where 99% participate and enjoy the class.

Remember: don't let the B.......'s get you down.
Good luck.

[Geumchondave]

I have some similar classes at my high school - try getting some movement going on in your classroom, keeping moving the desks around and keep splitting up difficult groups of students
try to get the students themselves moving - I like to divide the class in to teams and get them to race to spell a word on the board in a kind of relay (i think its in the games sections somewhere) It engages the more kinesthetic learners that are often neglected by korean schools.

Short of that everything posted above is good advice and it is a difficult situation - just keep at it, after a while you will start to develop more personal relationships with the students if you talk to them individualy after setting the task for the good stuents - maybe these trouble makers are the ones you need to spend a few minutes talking to at lunch and break times or after school when you see them in the corridors

[oldfatfarang]

Update. We had drama in one of our rural high school 'academic' classes this morning. We've got one student who is just surly, rude, and has serious attitude / behavior problems. I've given up teaching her, and told the school she shouldn't be in an academic class - but in a vocational class. This kid hasn't done anything in English class this year, except sneer and be rude.

Anyway, the co-teacher just exploded at this kid today (8 months too late). She was screaming at this kid, and the kid was just giving her the finger (as usual). After about 8 mins the co-teacher tried to get her to leave the classroom, but the kid wouldn't move.

I left it for another few mins and then went and asked the co-teacher if she wanted the kid removed from class. I asked the kid to leave, and she tried to refuse, so I gave her one of my "I'll kick your butt" looks. I took hold of her jacket and she got up and left the room. The co-teacher and her were at it in the corridor so loudly that I had to play music vids to calm the class down.

It's interesting hearing western GET's talk about how bad western inner city schools are - and how good Korean schools are. What they don't realise is that Korea's pre-occupation with 'face' means that they hide the real problem kids out in rural schools.

You sure won't be told this when you apply with EPIK.

PS: Another girl told me yesterday that she is going to be expelled (seems she's been hitting and bullying another girl). Messed up kids.

[winterfall]

To other posters, no they don't listen to anyone. Even Korean teachers. If I try doing something they just play the lost in translation card. Even when I speak Korean and write it down for them. (A while ago, I asked the English teachers to write down a list of punishments onto flash cards and laminated them. Whenever I punish, I just show them one and they go to the back, do it and go back to their desk after they're done.) But the ones I'm complaining about don't respond to the Korean teachers either. KETs say something. Students very, very briefly, perk up, listen. And without breaking stride, go back to whatever they were doing before

If they were at any other school they probably would've been kicked out a long time ago. This school's been doing them a huge service by just hanging onto them. They're just getting pushed through. On paper it'll at least say they graduated from high school.

At a tech school, pretty much everyone's got a crap life. The difference is how bad. The ones that generally show up everyday like the serious problems students I'm talking about, really aren't that bad compared to the really traumatized ones. Like refugee camp level trauma. These kids never give you that 'Play Tough' Attitude. They either: don't come to school, drop out, spend all of their time crying, (Or do it randomly and suddenly in class) and/or always sleep. By comparison, they're a hell of a lot easier to deal with, just give them a wide berth, keep notes and let the homeroom teacher know after class. (They need to know that kind of stuff)

[alljokingaside]

"It's interesting hearing western GET's talk about how bad western inner city schools are - and how good Korean schools are. What they don't realise is that Korea's pre-occupation with 'face' means that they hide the real problem kids out in rural schools. "

Umm, I seriously doubt that, where A) some teachers/staff/students deal with gangs and guns (true for my HS) B) you have teachers that may or may not be intimidated by the students (eg havin been stabbed in the head (also true for my HS)) C) classrooms full of kids (and the majority) whose sole purpose in class is getting under teacher's skin D) etc etc [oh, i forgot to mention- public school lunch, where your only real options are between bruised fruit and tater tots. god i did love those tator tots though]


So, I just realized a month ago (like into the second semester) that a good chunk of the kids didn't know what the concept "verb" and "noun" were in their own language. Needless to say, my previous lessons that were somewhat contingent on them understanding those super basic concepts in their own tongue bombed because my assumptions were wrong. After going back to reeeaaal basics that should've been covered back in the elementary days, currently, more kids who had tuned out are actually starting to follow along because they can understand what the *beep*'s going on. Check your assumptions is one.

Some students won't give a *beep*. I don't waste too much time on them, though I will occasionally make it known to them that I A) do want them involved and B) they are being pricks by talking back/bullying. The sleepers I also generally ignore (except the occasional tap on the head) because, and it's sad to say, they've given up. Utterly. You can do and sacrifice so much from the students who may actually want to learn.

I give candy out and lessons go very slowly, some repeatedly. The kids love candy (even in HS, it befuddles both me and the KET) and some are motivated by that. Even the super cheap kind. Competition helps. Some kids like to show off their flair (even if its gaudy). Have utterly boring, grammar/vocab/paper/worksheet/etc centered-classes dispersed amongst edu-games to make them appreciate the games a bit more. (and those classes are the ones I make it a point to individualize attention) It also downs down the sense of entitlement. Sometimes I use board games, vids, etc. as incentive. Attention spans, you know? But then I do consider it a success if 50% of the class pays attention and gets something without another portion of the class going buck wild and disturbing the rest.

The worst thing about the tech schools in my opinion is that some kids who actually good students go sour once they fathom the reality of their situation- they're in a tech school and have fewer options.

my 2 cents.

[gypsymaria]

Having some problem students of my own, I empathize, and I find this thread fascinating and informative. I don't really have anything helpful to add, though, being kind of a newb teacher myself.

Hang in there!

[oldfatfarang]

[oldfatfarang]

[Kaypea]

I sympathize. I'm at a MS, and I think the kids just found out which high schools they're going. One of my low level 3rd grade classes has reverted to kindergarten behaviour. I gave them a worksheet and they were chewing it up and spitting it at eachother. I ended up watching in semi-shocked amusement. Not a lot of teachin' went down that day.

(I got their attention back with a nerdy sentence structure game that was actually fun and competitive, but alas... I think you need a computer and big, funny images to really make it work).