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Poker
Joined: 16 Jan 2010
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 Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| kissdisap wrote: |
| geosdsd wrote: |
Is it still legal for teachers to take physical disciplinary action in Korea? I thought a couple of months ago it was banned from public schools or something.
On a side note, I'm a 5ft 3in female asian hoping to teach in Korea next year. Will it be impossibly difficult for me to maintain control in the classroom? |
I don't think you will have any problems. My wife is asian and roughly your height and she got a job without any issues. Seeing that you're from Davis, there are also several other asian female teachers here from Davis (and all over California).
Don't sweat it - you should be fine as long as the rest of your qualifications are up to snuff. |
She isn't asking if she could get a job ... |
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Murakano
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| discostu333 wrote: |
Don't expect younger female co-teachers to support you. They usually sit at the back of class crying because they have absolutely no control over their classes. Make friends with and keep good relationships with the older ajumma /adjoshi teachers. |
not sure if it`s just my school but I`ve found it the opposite!
The classes that have the younger homeroom teachers seem to have much more well behaved classes.
The older teacher`s still seem set in the old ways and can`t control their classes like before without the use of their trusty old bamboo sticks which they`re no longer allowed to use. Their classes are more out of control and I always see/hear the older homeroom teacher`s shouting at the top of their voices all the time at them. Not so with the younger teachers. Maybe they have received some good training from my particular district 
You`re right about the co-teachers who "support" you. Absolutely useless most of the time. |
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Radius
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Middle School Boys |
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| okelleyas wrote: |
| Is it ALL middle school boys that have a total disregard for teachers, or just the ones I have experience with? I can not get a word in without having to yell extremely loud just to be heard over them! The middle school girls I have no problem with - they are just shy and quiet. I'm losing my voice over these boys. |
exact opposite for me. its the korean middle school girls that are b******. The boys and i get along. The girls just have attitude out the yahoo. |
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passport220
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Gyeongsangbuk-do province
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:10 am Post subject: Re: Middle School Boys |
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| Radius wrote: |
| okelleyas wrote: |
| Is it ALL middle school boys that have a total disregard for teachers, or just the ones I have experience with? I can not get a word in without having to yell extremely loud just to be heard over them! The middle school girls I have no problem with - they are just shy and quiet. I'm losing my voice over these boys. |
exact opposite for me. its the korean middle school girls that are b******. The boys and i get along. The girls just have attitude out the yahoo. |
Are you male or female?
I am male and found you have to make friends with the girls, if the "queen bee" girls, the class leaders like you, they will keep the other girls in line. Bully the boys, make friends with the girls.  |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:18 am Post subject: Re: Middle School Boys |
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| passport220 wrote: |
| Radius wrote: |
| okelleyas wrote: |
| Is it ALL middle school boys that have a total disregard for teachers, or just the ones I have experience with? I can not get a word in without having to yell extremely loud just to be heard over them! The middle school girls I have no problem with - they are just shy and quiet. I'm losing my voice over these boys. |
exact opposite for me. its the korean middle school girls that are b******. The boys and i get along. The girls just have attitude out the yahoo. |
Are you male or female?
I am male and found you have to make friends with the girls, if the "queen bee" girls, the class leaders like you, they will keep the other girls in line. Bully the boys, make friends with the girls. |
I find I tend to hate whole classes of boys, whereas I only hate a handful of girls in the whole school. |
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passport220
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Gyeongsangbuk-do province
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:25 am Post subject: Re: Middle School Boys |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| I find I tend to hate whole classes of boys, whereas I only hate a handful of girls in the whole school. |
Yeah, I feel the same ("hate" as a figure of speach). Girls try to show off by how well they can speak English and impress the foreigner and their friends. Boys try to show off for their friends by how obnoxious they can behave in front of a foreigner.
Also, I have found if there is a class of boys that are not in the mood to study, something may have happened to get them excited or worked up before class began, it is just hell no matter what I try to bring them around. With the girls, even if they are in the wrong mood to start class, you can engage them, bring up your own energy to pull them in and you can turn it around. However, I would say, if the conditions are right, there is a good Korean co-teacher for the class, teaching well behaved boys can be a treat. It was just rare for me to find myself in that spot. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Middle School Boys |
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| passport220 wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| I find I tend to hate whole classes of boys, whereas I only hate a handful of girls in the whole school. |
Yeah, I feel the same ("hate" as a figure of speach). Girls try to show off by how well they can speak English and impress the foreigner and their friends. Boys try to show off for their friends by how obnoxious they can behave in front of a foreigner.
Also, I have found if there is a class of boys that are not in the mood to study, something may have happened to get them excited or worked up before class began, it is just hell no matter what I try to bring them around. With the girls, even if they are in the wrong mood to start class, you can engage them, bring up your own energy to pull them in and you can turn it around. However, I would say, if the conditions are right, there is a good Korean co-teacher for the class, teaching well behaved boys can be a treat. It was just rare for me to find myself in that spot. |
For sure, my first two years I spent teaching at 2 all boys' schools. Near the end I was beaten, I dreaded some of the classes. I was about to blow my brains out, so I decided to switch towns. I didn't specify any schools, just jotted down 3 towns I wished to go to. Low and behold my main school was a girls school. Just say it was like night and day. A bad days at a girls' schools is still much much better than the best days at a boys' school.
In a boys' school if your CT, or their homeroom, teacher is a push over the class is most likely to be awful. In girls' schools teachers can get away being pushovers. Like you said the difference is like 'heaven and hell'.
Although, one advantage with boys is after they graduate. I have shared a drink with a few graduated boys back from university for the holidays. They saw me on the street with a fellow teacher and we got hammered together. They were respectful, unlike when I actually taught them. Maybe the army, or the specter of army service wised them up. I have yet to encounter former girls that would invite me off the street to get drunk with. |
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vegas85200
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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It's nice to hear that it is not my burden alone. My friends are mostly elementary school teachers who tell me that, "there are no bad kids". Well maybe not when they are in elementary school, but they change. I can see it happen to my 1st graders about half way through the year. Their innocence and joy are crushed and replaced with hormones.
My strategy is to count to five and take away a minute of their break. Sometimes the classes push me and I push back. I once kept a class for 14 minutes after the bell (it was the last period). I don't have a problem with that class anymore. |
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tjmauermann
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree with the earlier posters. You need to push back. I have the three strikes rule with one class. You get three chances to behave after that I send you to the teachers room to explain yourself to the VP. I have only had to use it twice, in the same day. Both kids (1 boy/ 1 girl) started crying once they knew how serious I was.
I do tend to get along better with the girls. The very few boys that seem to bother me have no interest in learning English and are really low in their English ability and the way I see it is that this is their way of acting out.
Best of luck to you. But the best way is to never give an inch at the beginning and soften up as the year comes to a close. |
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okelleyas
Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Location: SK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for all the advice! I've been practicing my meanest looks and it seems to have a little effect on the boys, but it will be an uphill battle. Hopefully after exams they will naturally be a bit better. |
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n�fara
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Location: The Island
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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I actually like the boys classes at my schools for the most part (they are co-ed school, but the boys and girls are separated into different classes, which might make a difference). They are louder and rougher, but can also be the most fun. I've never come across a boys class that was "too mature" to play a game.
One thing I've learned from previous classes of all boys is to never dislike or hate a student, just their actions. If necessary I can punish a student, but I never hold what they did against them. Once the class is finished the slate is wiped clean. I think it's important to treat the "bad students" just as well as the "good students" outside of the classroom.
One of the biggest turn-around at my school was one surly, snarky boy who did not participate in or enjoy English class. On the way into school one day I gave him a cheerful "Good morning!" and a smile. It was weird. From that day on he participated and was much better in class. I'd like to think it was because he realized I didn't hate him.
I'm sure being cheerful and smiling isn't the magic bullet that will change all of them into angels. But I do think that there are a lot of pressures and issues in their lives that we aren't fully aware of. A lot of the time the bad behaviour isn't really directed at you, but at the world in general. |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| n�fara wrote: |
One thing I've learned from previous classes of all boys is to never dislike or hate a student, just their actions. If necessary I can punish a student, but I never hold what they did against them. Once the class is finished the slate is wiped clean. I think it's important to treat the "bad students" just as well as the "good students" outside of the classroom.
I'm sure being cheerful and smiling isn't the magic bullet that will change all of them into angels. But I do think that there are a lot of pressures and issues in their lives that we aren't fully aware of. A lot of the time the bad behaviour isn't really directed at you, but at the world in general. |
This is bang on - especially for high school. Some of these kids come from very unhappy situations, and your co-teachers aren't always going to tell you about them.
As visiting guest teachers, we are in a unique situation here. We don't have to discipline kids, so we can use a whole other bag of sneaky tricks to get them to participate (and hopefully enjoy) our English classes.
I've only had to punish one kid in nearly 5 years - and that was this year (I had to physically man-handle a girl out of the room to stop her beating up another girl). She just spent the class outside in the corridor.
I've always found that just being friendly really works for me. I'm lucky, as I think Korean kids are socialised to respect older males - but I also genuinely enjoy helping them - and I like kids. Kids can sense this - and once they do - that's when you get results.
I've also learnt a lot from a senior female K co-teacher this year. I often see her holding hands with disturbed/low level high school students. She walks them around the room and comforts them (while she's teaching other students). That teacher has taught me a lot about patience - and the Koreans' desire for harmony (which she largely achieves, even in our classes of 'reject' vocational students). Realistically, nothing (except coloring/art/k pop) seems to get through to these kids.
Anyway. Today's hint on how to survive Korean PS: Teach at an all girls' school. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| sulperman wrote: |
As the semester goes on they get worse and worse.
At the beginning of next semester they will be good again. Try to keep that going as long as possible. When they start to fall out of line react with an iron fist. |
Terrible idea. Don't REACT with an iron fist, ALWAYS have the iron fist. I did two years in a middle school, and it was tough. Like Jvalmers said, hard--- right away. Don't take ANY crap from them. You want them to sit at a 4 degree angle from the board, then they sit at a 4 degree angle from the board and there are no ifs ands or buts. Every tiny thing, you have a way, you do it your way, and you take ZERO guff from them.
My first year was terrible. The second year, I had a seating chart specifically for my class (breaking up friends). I told the kids that their feet would be on the floor at all times (no kicking people, flashing people). They would sit perpendicular to the board (no turning around to talk with friends, neighbors). No food or gum or candy unless I gave it out (no wrappers/gum on the floor). No talking unless they had my "talking tennis ball" or we were doing group work. Any deviation from these rules and we would stay late for as long as it took for them to correct the problem.
Sure, it sounds harsh, but my second year, the second grade students who had been terrors the month before break were fine after break, and my new first grade students never became a problem. Be a fascist pig at first and you can ease up later. Then they know what bad behavior will bring them. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| oldfatfarang wrote: |
| n�fara wrote: |
One thing I've learned from previous classes of all boys is to never dislike or hate a student, just their actions. If necessary I can punish a student, but I never hold what they did against them. Once the class is finished the slate is wiped clean. I think it's important to treat the "bad students" just as well as the "good students" outside of the classroom.
I'm sure being cheerful and smiling isn't the magic bullet that will change all of them into angels. But I do think that there are a lot of pressures and issues in their lives that we aren't fully aware of. A lot of the time the bad behaviour isn't really directed at you, but at the world in general. |
This is bang on - especially for high school. Some of these kids come from very unhappy situations, and your co-teachers aren't always going to tell you about them.
As visiting guest teachers, we are in a unique situation here. We don't have to discipline kids, so we can use a whole other bag of sneaky tricks to get them to participate (and hopefully enjoy) our English classes.
I've only had to punish one kid in nearly 5 years - and that was this year (I had to physically man-handle a girl out of the room to stop her beating up another girl). She just spent the class outside in the corridor.
I've always found that just being friendly really works for me. I'm lucky, as I think Korean kids are socialised to respect older males - but I also genuinely enjoy helping them - and I like kids. Kids can sense this - and once they do - that's when you get results.
I've also learnt a lot from a senior female K co-teacher this year. I often see her holding hands with disturbed/low level high school students. She walks them around the room and comforts them (while she's teaching other students). That teacher has taught me a lot about patience - and the Koreans' desire for harmony (which she largely achieves, even in our classes of 'reject' vocational students). Realistically, nothing (except coloring/art/k pop) seems to get through to these kids.
Anyway. Today's hint on how to survive Korean PS: Teach at an all girls' school. |
Another excellent point. My coteacher just told me that she had to deal with a suicidal student (dumped by his gf) and a gay student, both of whom had not been participating in my class. I've learned that asking my co workers thoughts on the matter is paramount. Had I not known that, I'd probably have been a real jerk to these kids (hey, wake up, do the work!). Of course, I'm still not happy that they AREN'T working, but I understand what's going on with them. |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Middle School Boys |
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| okelleyas wrote: |
| Is it ALL middle school boys that have a total disregard for teachers, or just the ones I have experience with? I can not get a word in without having to yell extremely loud just to be heard over them! The middle school girls I have no problem with - they are just shy and quiet. I'm losing my voice over these boys. |
If you think they're bad now. Wait till they start applying for high schools. The ones headed to tech schools will get much, much worse and wreck havoc till they leave 
By the way I 2nd the iron fist. It helps if you have it clearly written on the board. Step 1 to 7 or 8. With punishments slowly getting more draconian. When they've gone through all the steps, you kick them out and take em to their homeroom teacher after class. Carefully explain to the Homeroom teacher you did, this, this, this, this and it still didn't work. No choice but to kick them out.
99.9999994312% of the time the homeroom teacher will respond. If they don't it makes them look REALLY, REALLY BAD. I had 1 teacher that didn't respond, and the VP & principal took it as a sign of weakness. They made his life completely miserable until he rotated out. |
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