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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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 Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:38 am Post subject: Healthcare lack kills 14x as many military as Afghan War |
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One of Project Censored's Top Stories of 2011.
6. Health Care Restrictions Cost Thousands of Lives in US
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Despite national legislative health reform, health care in the US will remain dismal for many Americans, resulting in continuing deaths and personal tragedies. A recent Harvard research team estimates that 2,266 US military veterans died in 2008 due to lack of health insurance. The figure is more than fourteen times the number of deaths suffered by US troops in Afghanistan in 2008, and more than twice as many as have died since the war began in 2001. Harvard researchers concluded that 1.46 million working-age vets lacked health coverage, increasing their death rate. The American Journal of Public Health published findings demonstrating that being uninsured raises an individual�s odds of dying by 40 percent. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Something is way way wrong with this article in fact it is b.s. Veterans get free healthcare through the V.A.!! So no veteran would have died because he did not have access to healthcare.
The other numbers are also suspect to put it mildly
Serious piece of crap! |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
Something is way way wrong with this article in fact it is b.s. Veterans get free healthcare through the V.A.!! So no veteran would have died because he did not have access to healthcare.
The other numbers are also suspect to put it mildly
Serious piece of crap! |
| OK, so rollo knows better than Harvard researchers who wrote: |
| that 1.46 million working-age vets lacked health coverage, increasing their death rate. |
Got it. 
| Quote: |
| While many Americans believe that all veterans can get care from the VHA, even combat veterans may not be able to obtain VHA care. As a rule, VHA facilities provide care for any veteran who is disabled by a condition connected to military service, and treatments for specific medical conditions acquired during military service. Low-income veterans who pass a means test are eligible for care in VHA facilities but have lower priority status (Priority 5 or Priority 7, depending upon income level). Veterans with higher incomes are classified in the lowest priority group, and are not eligible for VHA enrollment. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
Something is way way wrong with this article in fact it is b.s. Veterans get free healthcare through the V.A.!! So no veteran would have died because he did not have access to healthcare.
The other numbers are also suspect to put it mildly
Serious piece of crap! |
| OK, so rollo knows better than Harvard researchers who wrote: |
| that 1.46 million working-age vets lacked health coverage, increasing their death rate. |
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Most of those so-called Harvard researchers are university STUDENTS none of whom attend Harvard. In fact there is only one person associated with Harvard according to your article.
Not to mention that the numbers of deaths are simply an estimation.
"We estimated that among nonelderly veterans 2,266 deaths were associated with lack of health insurance last year."
Yeah that's a real credible source. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
Something is way way wrong with this article in fact it is b.s. Veterans get free healthcare through the V.A.!! So no veteran would have died because he did not have access to healthcare.
The other numbers are also suspect to put it mildly
Serious piece of crap! |
| OK, so rollo knows better than Harvard researchers who wrote: |
| that 1.46 million working-age vets lacked health coverage, increasing their death rate. |
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Most of those so-called Harvard researchers are university STUDENTS none of whom attend Harvard. In fact there is only one person associated with Harvard according to your article. |
So? Because they are students, it's false? They are supervised by Dr. David Himmelstein, coauthor of the analysis and associate professor of medicine at Harvard.
| TUM wrote: |
Not to mention that the numbers of deaths are simply an estimation.
"We estimated that among nonelderly veterans 2,266 deaths were associated with lack of health insurance last year."
Yeah that's a real credible source. |
The numbers are not "simply" an estimation, but one based in sound statistical methods.
Now, whom should we find more credible, the Harvard medical professor or random internet poster TUM?
Let me save you the trouble of your first lame response: "But he's only an associate professor of medicine at Harvard!" |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
Something is way way wrong with this article in fact it is b.s. Veterans get free healthcare through the V.A.!! So no veteran would have died because he did not have access to healthcare.
The other numbers are also suspect to put it mildly
Serious piece of crap! |
| OK, so rollo knows better than Harvard researchers who wrote: |
| that 1.46 million working-age vets lacked health coverage, increasing their death rate. |
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Most of those so-called Harvard researchers are university STUDENTS none of whom attend Harvard. In fact there is only one person associated with Harvard according to your article. |
So? Because they are students, it's false? They are supervised by Dr. David Himmelstein, coauthor of the analysis and associate professor of medicine at Harvard.
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University students typically turn out work of less quality then what is published in prestigious academic journals. Their work is not typically peer-reviewed either. And what are Dr Himmelstein's credentials?
As for your remark about credibility that's known as a fallacy called "Appeal to Authority" And how is it you never appeal to authority when it goes against what you are claiming?
And since I've stopped posting quotes in your quote box...how about you stop putting words in my mouth? |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Um, am I missing something TUM? Did you actually click on the links and read the source. It took me but a few moments to see that:
1. The researchers are indeed credible, one having testified before Congress on this topic
2. The article and it's findings were INDEED published in an International Peer Reviews Journal.
So unless you have some sound basis for rejecting their methods you will have to admit that they were more than just "guessing". The results are not astounding or even eye raising. Everyone knows that non-insured people are at higher risk of mortality. Hospital care is one reason people live so long nowadays. It is a no-brainer.
Arguing against that obvious logic makes you look silly. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:03 am Post subject: |
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No it is not against logic it is against reality. They might not have sought medical care but if they were a veteran they had V. A. heath care available. It would have been imposible to have been a veteran and not had veterans administration healthcare available.
There is something being left out here. Stephen Colbert testified in front of congress as have baseball players actors , housewives, criminals
I still call B.S. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| yeah ! I am a vet! So I probably do know better! |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
Um, am I missing something TUM? Did you actually click on the links and read the source. It took me but a few moments to see that:
1. The researchers are indeed credible, one having testified before Congress on this topic
2. The article and it's findings were INDEED published in an International Peer Reviews Journal.
So unless you have some sound basis for rejecting their methods you will have to admit that they were more than just "guessing". The results are not astounding or even eye raising. Everyone knows that non-insured people are at higher risk of mortality. Hospital care is one reason people live so long nowadays. It is a no-brainer.
Arguing against that obvious logic makes you look silly. |
1. I am talking about the student researchers. And testifying before Congress does not necessarily lead to enhanced credibility on the subject. Oliver North testified before Congress...didn't do his credibility any favors that I recall, to cite just one example.
2. Really? Which one? Because as far as I can see, only the finding that "being uninsured raises the odds of dying by 40%" was published in said Journal.
We were talking about the number of vets dying and even they admit it was an estimate.
I have not argued against the logic that non-insured people are at higher risk of mortality. (That's a strawman...please don't do that.) What I was taking issue with is the number of veterans who have allegedly died because of this. |
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AsiaESLbound
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Location: Truck Stop Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
Something is way way wrong with this article in fact it is b.s. Veterans get free healthcare through the V.A.!! So no veteran would have died because he did not have access to healthcare.
The other numbers are also suspect to put it mildly
Serious piece of crap! |
I can see veterans going without care and employment opportunities offering insurance. The system VA system is broken and over capacity. Veterans are discriminated against from being hired not to say no one employs veterans. Often military experience discourages getting a call for an interview, because civilian managers aren't comfortable about hiring a veteran for unknown irrational reasons.
Too bad they just don't give us all Medicaid cards to get regular health care. It would save the government money and provide veterans with actual real health care. The VA health care system is ineffective, because it takes months to get an appointment and then they act confused about it like wondering why you don't use your private insurance to go for a non-service connected health exam or treatment. VA system is crap failing the veterans. How does the over rated Harvard place a number on how many veterans died from a lack of health care? |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
No it is not against logic it is against reality. They might not have sought medical care but if they were a veteran they had V. A. heath care available. It would have been imposible to have been a veteran and not had veterans administration healthcare available.
There is something being left out here. Stephen Colbert testified in front of congress as have baseball players actors , housewives, criminals
I still call B.S. |
Um, you of all people (as Veteran) should know that VA benefits are not a free for all and they are restricted to certain groups. If you cannot grasp the "reality" that some people fall outside of full coverage but nonetheless do not have enough money to pay top up payments on partly funded care...then you are blind.
| rollo wrote: |
| It would have been imposible to have been a veteran and not had veterans administration healthcare available. |
Such simplistic statements are why you never get anything right my friend. You should know full well that VA healthcare is not 100% freely provided for non combat injuries but is means tested and as such many people are restricted despite not being able to pay for their own insurance.
"In January 2003, President Bush�s Secretary of Veterans Affairs halted enrollment of Priority 8 veterans. Since that time these veterans have remained ineligible for VHA enrollment." |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Just throwing it out there that at one point 4 out 5 doctors recommended Chesterfields, so just because they are doctors and some survey says something doesn't make it true.
But I would probably believe the number simply because of the large number of veterans and the fact that 2,200 of them would probably have some kind of problem accessing their benefits and it potentially leading to their death. I mean we are talking about 85 year old war survivors in their declining years. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:05 am Post subject: |
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yeah I know that it has been some time since I used my v.a. benefits and I dont always keep up with the rule changes . but most vets do have some healthcare benefits. I personally had no problem with care with the v.a. the facility was new and the treatment was good. I know that is different in different areas of the country.
I think that there probabaly some that cant access the care. I know alcohol, drugs and mental health problems leave a lot of vets out in the cold.
this said working age and that is what I find suspisious. Even with the millions of vets that is a high number. |
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