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Riddle
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:22 am Post subject: Close but not done with Masters, possible to get uni job? |
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I'm about three classes away from finishing my Master's degree in Language Education. I've been working in Seoul for over four years at an elementary hagwon and also hold a 60 hour TESL certificate. I also have a little experience working with adults from back home. It's time for a change.
With these qualifications, do you think it would be possible to secure a (not horrible) uni position for the coming Fall semester in September 2011? My current contract will end in August. When would be a good time to start applying? What kinds of documents should I prepare? Thanks in advance for your responses. |
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greekvvedge
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: Apkujeong
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:00 am Post subject: |
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technically, you can get a uni job with just a BA, the TESOL certificate will help too. When you explain your situation, it can't hurt.
Outside of Seoul doubles your chances too.
Prepare all your e-2 documents. start applying when you see the first job postings. probably around may-june. |
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Riddle
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your response. One problem might be that I wish to exclusively work in Seoul, or Kyeongi-do. I've done one round of applying before I started my Master's and only got one interview, so I'm hoping being nearly done with my degree will help my chances.
It seems to be a very competetive market for uni jobs. Has anyone here done something similar and gotten a uni job without a completed Master's? If so, what led to your success? |
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whiteshoes
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I am half done with my master's and I've been teaching for two years here. I applied to 13 jobs, got two interviews. I prepared much more than was required at the first interview, and got that job so I didn't go on the second interview.
Yes, you can get a uni job (and mine's in Seoul) before you complete your degree. If you get an interview, use some buzz words. "Task based language learning," "Krashen," "Vygotsky," "i+1," "student centered." As you are into your MA, I'm sure you know all these terms. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| whiteshoes wrote: |
| If you get an interview, use some buzz words. "Task based language learning," "Krashen," "Vygotsky," "i+1," "student centered." As you are into your MA, I'm sure you know all these terms. |
I feel like I've just eavesdropped on some insider information. |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Get a Uni job in korea has alot to do with luck timing and who know instead of what you know and you have accomplished.
No uni jobs are filled outside country so they are all staffed by veteran teachers who came to Korea on a non-uni contract.
Follow the cycle of posting on here and keep a record of which jobs are posted for and where. If you have a korean friend that can make calls on your behalf that also can go a very long way.
Be careful of institutes that try to pawn themselves off as being associated when really they are not. This is usually obvious by the required hours of teaching are more than 20 a week. |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Yes, you can get a uni job (and mine's in Seoul) before you complete your degree. If you get an interview, use some buzz words. "Task based language learning," "Krashen," "Vygotsky," "i+1," "student centered." As you are into your MA, I'm sure you know all these terms. |
In other words he usual bs.
I got my uni gig just by making it apparent that I understand and practice the basics of teaching (some of which are defined in a fancy way in the above), can get along with others, and don't rely on games and cheaply waving the students through...and also openly saying that fancy linguistic/TESOL/CELTA methodology don't count for jack when you have a bunch of students more intent on the latest K-Pop trend than enthusiastically participating in helping to model the target language, guessing the word the illiterate foreigner is trying to communicate via clownish gesture, faithfully working on cloze exercises with a partner (easier to just ask the strongest student in the class for the answer), etc.
Practitioners in the field are beginning to admit as much-
1. The Post-method era- when �bad� methodologies are good
Having listened to vocab guru Paul Nation discuss vocabulary acquisition recently in Fukuoka, I was reminded that we are now wholly in the ELT Post-Method era (and here you were thinking this was the Post-Modern Era or the Digital Age). Why? Almost every luminary in our humble field whom I�ve heard talk in the past five years has advocated an eclectic mix of methods as being the most productive for teaching. So, what did Paul Nation say? He actually said- hold your breath here- that Grammar-Translation is a wonderful method of instruction, that it makes perfect sense to utilize one�s first language as a tool in second language acquisition.
Paul- how �pedagogically incorrect� of you! But also... how very true!
Actually, I�ve heard Willis, Widdowson, Candlin, and Nunan et al peddle the virtues of unfashionable drills, card study, dictation, discrete item grammar study- name your old-fashioned methodology here. Of course none of them argue that these are the only methodologies one should use or that they should even be considered primary methods of instruction. But, given that many teachers who like to think of themselves as progressive have completely discarded these tools in the name of pedagogical hipness this might come as a welcome reminder.
On one hand, the fact that drudge methods can play a productive role in SLA should hardly come as a surprise for those among us who are in a lifelong Japanese learning mode. Surely you, like myself, have used these methods in your self-study. So, we might likewise expect that independent learners and hobbyists of any new language will practice more formal drills and translation methods as a part of self-study- as any serious student should. And, as a result, we can also reasonably predict that when such independent learners meet with an NS teacher they want to actually do something active with their English knowledge- not drills or trnslation. Fair enough.
But this also connects to Japanese university settings in a very significant way. Universities in Japan are full of required English courses in which students� main concern is often not the acquisition of English, and thus there is little chance that most will carry out this type of study on their own. Therefore, it is precisely university students who can/should benefit most from a teacher employing these methods in a university classroom (again not as a primary method but as a useful supplementary tool). They need to have occasional directed, focused study mandated from above precisely because they are less likely to do it by themselves. Not only that, but being familiar with these simple methods means that students often feel very comfortable with them. There is little fuss and bother regarding formats or complicated interactions. They are on familiar territory. There is a place for this stuff.
I'd say to just be yourself. As you have teaching experience, that should come through naturally in how you answer the interview questions. The BS approach may be a good shortcut in the short-term, but BS has a tendancy to catch up with you at some point, be it at work or with chicks. Sure there are schools that lap all that stuff up and are impressed by geeks who parrot ESL methodology in self-made promotional videos, and may actually request that you make a self-shot interview video, and those are the schools that are clueless. |
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swashbuckler
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| legrande wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Yes, you can get a uni job (and mine's in Seoul) before you complete your degree. If you get an interview, use some buzz words. "Task based language learning," "Krashen," "Vygotsky," "i+1," "student centered." As you are into your MA, I'm sure you know all these terms. |
In other words he usual bs.
I got my uni gig just by making it apparent that I understand and practice the basics of teaching (some of which are defined in a fancy way in the above), can get along with others, and don't rely on games and cheaply waving the students through...and also openly saying that fancy linguistic/TESOL/CELTA methodology don't count for jack when you have a bunch of students more intent on the latest K-Pop trend than enthusiastically participating in helping to model the target language, guessing the word the illiterate foreigner is trying to communicate via clownish gesture, faithfully working on cloze exercises with a partner (easier to just ask the strongest student in the class for the answer), etc.
Practitioners in the field are beginning to admit as much-
1. The Post-method era- when �bad� methodologies are good
Having listened to vocab guru Paul Nation discuss vocabulary acquisition recently in Fukuoka, I was reminded that we are now wholly in the ELT Post-Method era (and here you were thinking this was the Post-Modern Era or the Digital Age). Why? Almost every luminary in our humble field whom I�ve heard talk in the past five years has advocated an eclectic mix of methods as being the most productive for teaching. So, what did Paul Nation say? He actually said- hold your breath here- that Grammar-Translation is a wonderful method of instruction, that it makes perfect sense to utilize one�s first language as a tool in second language acquisition.
Paul- how �pedagogically incorrect� of you! But also... how very true!
Actually, I�ve heard Willis, Widdowson, Candlin, and Nunan et al peddle the virtues of unfashionable drills, card study, dictation, discrete item grammar study- name your old-fashioned methodology here. Of course none of them argue that these are the only methodologies one should use or that they should even be considered primary methods of instruction. But, given that many teachers who like to think of themselves as progressive have completely discarded these tools in the name of pedagogical hipness this might come as a welcome reminder.
On one hand, the fact that drudge methods can play a productive role in SLA should hardly come as a surprise for those among us who are in a lifelong Japanese learning mode. Surely you, like myself, have used these methods in your self-study. So, we might likewise expect that independent learners and hobbyists of any new language will practice more formal drills and translation methods as a part of self-study- as any serious student should. And, as a result, we can also reasonably predict that when such independent learners meet with an NS teacher they want to actually do something active with their English knowledge- not drills or trnslation. Fair enough.
But this also connects to Japanese university settings in a very significant way. Universities in Japan are full of required English courses in which students� main concern is often not the acquisition of English, and thus there is little chance that most will carry out this type of study on their own. Therefore, it is precisely university students who can/should benefit most from a teacher employing these methods in a university classroom (again not as a primary method but as a useful supplementary tool). They need to have occasional directed, focused study mandated from above precisely because they are less likely to do it by themselves. Not only that, but being familiar with these simple methods means that students often feel very comfortable with them. There is little fuss and bother regarding formats or complicated interactions. They are on familiar territory. There is a place for this stuff.
I'd say to just be yourself. As you have teaching experience, that should come through naturally in how you answer the interview questions. The BS approach may be a good shortcut in the short-term, but BS has a tendancy to catch up with you at some point, be it at work or with chicks. Sure there are schools that lap all that stuff up and are impressed by geeks who parrot ESL methodology in self-made promotional videos, and may actually request that you make a self-shot interview video, and those are the schools that are clueless. |
You seem to be implying, somewhat arrogantly, that you have the whole 'teaching thing' down pat. Care to expound a bit more on your methodology and what constitutes one of your typical lessons? |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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I do in fact "have it down"- for me.
And I'm sure there are things peculiar to your approach which work for you.
Happy Holidays |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I do in fact "have it down"- for me. |
You sound rather conceited. Teaching should be for students, not "for me".
Whiteshoes - nice post.
Here's a quick tip:
i + 1 = 
i + 2 + ? |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, and you sound like a knob.
He asked me if I thought I had a working methodology.
I told him I have something that works for me, which, yeah, is another way of saying it works for the students, you can't have one without the other.
And then I wished him well for the holidays.
If you feel threatened by it, maybe you ought to (1) Work on your self-esteem (2) Work on your teaching approach |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Yeah, and you sound like a knob. |
I see you are are a scholar and a gentleman. 
| Quote: |
| I told him I have something that works for me, which, yeah, is another way of saying it works for the students, you can't have one without the other. |
I don't agree with that.
| Quote: |
| If you feel threatened by it, maybe you ought to (1) Work on your self-esteem (2) Work on your teaching approach |
I always work on my self-esteem and teaching approach. A bit of humility goes a long way, and a teacher should always try to improve.
Perhaps you should work on your manners and attitude in general.
Happy holidays. |
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whiteshoes
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| legrande wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Yes, you can get a uni job (and mine's in Seoul) before you complete your degree. If you get an interview, use some buzz words. "Task based language learning," "Krashen," "Vygotsky," "i+1," "student centered." As you are into your MA, I'm sure you know all these terms. |
In other words the usual bs.
I got my uni gig just by making it apparent that I understand and practice the basics of teaching (some of which are defined in a fancy way in the above), can get along with others, and don't rely on games and cheaply waving the students through...and also openly saying that fancy linguistic/TESOL/CELTA methodology don't count for jack when you have a bunch of students more intent on the latest K-Pop trend than enthusiastically participating in helping to model the target language, guessing the word the illiterate foreigner is trying to communicate via clownish gesture, faithfully working on cloze exercises with a partner (easier to just ask the strongest student in the class for the answer), etc.
...
I'd say to just be yourself. As you have teaching experience, that should come through naturally in how you answer the interview questions. The BS approach may be a good shortcut in the short-term, but BS has a tendancy to catch up with you at some point, be it at work or with chicks. Sure there are schools that lap all that stuff up and are impressed by geeks who parrot ESL methodology in self-made promotional videos, and may actually request that you make a self-shot interview video, and those are the schools that are clueless. |
It's interesting that you think knowing the theory behind what we all do as teachers is BS. I've found learning about things like activity theory has helped me find new ways to design my classroom in ways I wouldn't have thought of if I wouldn't have learned it (like by using K-Pop in the classroom). Studying the native vs. non native debate has also helped me to understand in what areas I can most improve my students abilities and which areas I need self-study in order to help my students.
The reason I recommend the OP to use those terms was to show he or she has some knowledge of the theoretical background. I agree with you that we are now in a post-methods era, however I've yet to hear of a university in Korea which doesn't use tasks extensively (and yes, I know that was a split infinitive). Furthermore, something like i+1 is fundamental when teaching a second language. I doubt you are trying to get your beginning level students to Proust.
Most of all I totally agree with you when you said a person needs to be themselves in an interview. If you start throwing around these terms, and you don't know what you're talking about you'll be fried. If you think all the terms are BS, then say so in the interview. |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
Get a Uni job in korea has alot to do with luck timing and who know instead of what you know and you have accomplished.
No uni jobs are filled outside country so they are all staffed by veteran teachers who came to Korea on a non-uni contract. |
Are you sure about that? Only recently somebody who'd done a runner or something posted here and they asked about the legal implications of coming back. They're obviously not in Korea and they were the successful candidate for a university job. They've managed to get it outside Korea.
I'm rather cynical about university jobs as a few of my previous posts show because there are people working there who do not have anything other than a BA.
I have been turned down for consideration by a number of universities in previous years but I have two degrees and a CELTA plus years of experience in the UK, Japan and Taiwan that should get me an interview judging by the websites I've seen of foreigner uni instructors with only a BA, no work history except teaching kiddies and/or a plain ignorance of English writing skills as demonstrated by their spiels. However, I've been refused on the grounds of not having an MA. That is - I couldn't get my application processed so there was no interview.
Unless you have contacts, it seems that you will not be considered without at least an MA and the great majority of uni jobs specifically state an MA or higher (although too many of them simply don't justify asking for these qualifications). I have noted that a few of the uni jobs are re-advertised because they are not getting the kinds of applicants they want - the bar is too high for on paper qualifications.
Personally I think if universities refuse to look at cvs with clear experience of teaching university/college students, adults, corporate training etc they deserve the less than quality candidates they get. That also goes for candidates with an MA in anything other than the field of English. |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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@whiteshoes
| Quote: |
| If you start throwing around these terms, and you don't know what you're talking about you'll be fried. |
Yes, this is basically what I was on about, you nailed it.
Concerning your other comments, I don't consider the theory behind what we do as BS so much as I think that theory merely reflects what a concerned instructor can find out on one's own.
The i +1 concept and native vs. non-native debate all bring up very valid and important points which I feel aren't excessively obscure or esoteric, but when articualted in certain jargon begin to appear to be something more than the basic ideas (albeit indespenable) that they are.
People can know a lot of these things on their own but are led to or allow themselves to believe they have to learn them from a Ph D'd expert.
I do recognize though that reading some of the literature is useful for comparing ideas and stimulating further investigation, and occasionally there are profound findings. |
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