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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| nero wrote: |
Yeah, I hear what you're sayng. NZ offers so little in many ways, but the lifestyle is so amazing. When I'm here I idealise NZ and when I'm there I idealise Korea. The best plan is save your $ and go live in Thailand! |
My plan exactly. I'm moving to Thailand - and I'll be in NZ for the summer (or winter) fishing seasons - then back to paradise in Thailand.
Good luck. |
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Koreadays
Joined: 20 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
you guys sound like a bunch of jealous haters..
and you sound like nothing more than a pathetic troll grasping at straws.
You're pulling numbers out of nowhere, making stuff up, etc.
you have no real idea why anyone is here or what they're doing. Sounds like you got yourself stuck and you're trying to lump everyone in with yourself to make yourself feel better. It's called projection. |
Nice try...
but naaaaaa...
keep dreaming buddy.. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| bcjinseoul wrote: |
| Stalin84 wrote: |
| bcjinseoul wrote: |
| All I know this...the people I knew in high school who became nurses, physical therapists, pharmacists, engineers, scientists, programmers, accountants, LICENSED teachers, or even learned to become a mechanic, electrician, or plumber....guess what: they'll never need to come to Korea to teach English, let alone cut down trees in Canada or work on an oil rig in the Middle East, let alone work for free in the Peace Corps. They have JOB SKILLS. They have MONEY. They have SECURITY. They have CAREERS. They're in their late 20's/early 30's, own new cars and small houses, mostly married, some with kids, debt free and investing, and even if they're making "only" 40-60K a year, they have a big back yard and drive way you'll never get in Korea. Who cares if they're saving only a few hundred dollars a month; after investments and bills and what not? Does the average Korean person have a higher quality of life than the average American/Canadian? HELL NO. They don't have to work 100 hours a week like Koreans, either... |
Nurses and programmers don't make more than we do, here. If you average out a nurse's salary (LPN) it actually comes out to a bit less than what we make after they pay taxes. They also have to spend a lot more time at work. I know this because my sister is a nurse. RN nurses do make more money but when you factor in time spent at work and cost of living, it's not really a better deal than what we have here.
Programming used to pay pretty well but many programmers now, especially at entry level positions, are making far less than what we're making (sometimes marginally above minimum wage) and most companies offer them little chances of advancement.
Licensed teachers do alright but to actually be a licensed teacher with a tenure at a school is damn near impossible. I know people who have been substituting for ten years without being able to find a solid position at a school. It really depends where you are but for Canadians, becoming a teacher is very much luck of the draw. The waiting lists in my province are over 500 candidates for a dozen positions opening up every few years. |
Experienced RNs with MAs are making $100K year.
Very broad statement about programming. If you have a degree in computer science, after 5 years you can make $80-90K a year.
As for the teaching thing in Canada...glad things aren't like that in the States. I've met Canadians who have told me how hard it is to be a teacher, cop, firefighter, doctor and so many other things in Canada. Sorry to hear. |
Actually, the AVERAGE Korean probably DOES have a higher standard of living, because the AVERAGE American does not have adequate medical coverage, and as a result, holds off on adequate medical care until the expense is justified (i.e. the condition has become serious or even life threatening).
As far as the salary thing, the trouble is, you are comparing experienced folks with advanced degrees to the typical, entry-level position for folks fresh out of school. While I doubt nurses with MAs, on average, make $100k a year (my mother, a nurse with an MA and 30 years in did not make that), I will grant that it is possible....
Entry level is entry level, experienced is experienced. The folks with experience (and the corresponding duties and salary) in Korea make noticeably more than their entry-level counterparts. A guy that has been bouncing around from job to job, totting up years without moving past entry level will make quite a bit less than his credentials should draw, but then, the same is true of anyone that bounces from entry level job to entry level job at different companies. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| bcjinseoul wrote: |
"....they've probably got mortgages and car payments every month, which is debt. "
--So? If you can manage it, pay it off, and have a great paying career in your own country, who cares?
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So, your claim was they were debt free. They're not debt free. If you have to lie to make your point, you have no point.
| Quote: |
"if they're only saving a few hundred a month they didn't plonk down 30k for a new car, and they didn't drop 300k+ for a new house. The only way they own the house already is if they're living in a fixer upper outside the city and commute a ways to work"
--Or, they're in my hometown of Syracuse, NY where most houses cost less than $100K and drive a late model 4 door sedan. I didn't say they were rich, and their family doesn't have to miss them for years and years. |
We've now gone from "new" to "late model"
It's interesting how everyone has to try and fudge things to prove how good people they know back home are doing.
Even at $100k, they didn't pay cash saving only a few hundred a month and they're carrying debt on it. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Koreadays wrote: |
so I said.. THE EXPATS here are here out of necessity!
don't be hating on folks who managed to graduate college and actually make careers for themselves back home.
don't be hating because your only option was to come teach ESL in Korea.
you can justify your earnings and your lifestyle as much as you want.
fact is, you couldn't make it back home with your degree so you opt to come to teach kids in South Korea and now you want to say how better off you are than your friends back home.. good for you..
maybe its true in your case.. I don't know who you went to school with or where.
I don't know what college you went to or what town you come from.
but my college friends are killing it in the corporate would and using their degrees and making 100K+ salaries.
most esl folks here are not using their degrees which they went to school for.
you gonna tell me you went to college with the aspirations of working at DING DANG DANG kindergarten in ULSAN? .. pllleeeaaasseeeee...
save it for the bar...
you are here for the money.. because you can't make the money you can back home with your degrees.. you want to believe something else to help you through the day.. so be it...
I came for the adventure. stayed for the money.
least I can admit it.
I ended up staying here too long so trying to break into a career back home would have been more difficult if compared if I entered 10 years earlier.
So I stay, sure I make great money, and save great money. but my friends have more opportunities than me with their career path.
you guys sound like a bunch of jealous haters... |
So you are saying that you are a loser who is in Korea because you can't make it back home and have been in Korea for a long time. Just because that is your situation doesn't mean that it is every bodies. I happen to think that living abroad is a valuable thing, and hell it's easy and it's just a year of my life. Good luck with being jealous of all your friends, btw are you sure that they are your friends and haven't forgotten you after all your time making a pittance in Korea? |
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interestedinhanguk
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Pretty sure Koreadays isn't a real NET. Some of his wording is a bit awkward and doesn't really seem to know much about our situations. |
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Koreadays
Joined: 20 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
So you are saying that you are a loser who is in Korea because you can't make it back home and have been in Korea for a long time. Just because that is your situation doesn't mean that it is every bodies. I happen to think that living abroad is a valuable thing, and hell it's easy and it's just a year of my life. Good luck with being jealous of all your friends, btw are you sure that they are your friends and haven't forgotten you after all your time making a pittance in Korea? |
ohhhh, so you are in your first year here.. ohhh wonderful... 
so great visiting foreign countries isn't it?
so great trying new foods, meeting new people, checking out the sites, yeah...
ohhh yeah, like none of us have done there buddy....
come back and talk to me when you have been here 15 years like me...
I am not saying we stay in Korea only for the money.
and no.. I am no jealous of my friends back home. because I choose to be here, I could return anytime and make great money there too.
If it wasn't for the money.. 98% of you guys wouldn't be here is what I am saying.
you want to go on how much you love Kimchi, the Korean people, Korea.. good for you...
I really wonder how many of you would stay if you made 10bucks an hour and paid 30% tax on that.
I would.. because I love Korea, and my life here.
but let me guess you all would right!
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Of course I'm here for the money. But that wasn't your initial point. It was that living standards were higher back home.
What we're all saying to you is that people back aren't living like you described; two houses, etc. And that the real average person there is worse off than we are in Korea.
==
And some of us are living quite well in Korea. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| Koreadays wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
So you are saying that you are a loser who is in Korea because you can't make it back home and have been in Korea for a long time. Just because that is your situation doesn't mean that it is every bodies. I happen to think that living abroad is a valuable thing, and hell it's easy and it's just a year of my life. Good luck with being jealous of all your friends, btw are you sure that they are your friends and haven't forgotten you after all your time making a pittance in Korea? |
ohhhh, so you are in your first year here.. ohhh wonderful...
so great visiting foreign countries isn't it?
so great trying new foods, meeting new people, checking out the sites, yeah...
ohhh yeah, like none of us have done there buddy....
come back and talk to me when you have been here 15 years like me...
I am not saying we stay in Korea only for the money.
and no.. I am no jealous of my friends back home. because I choose to be here, I could return anytime and make great money there too.
If it wasn't for the money.. 98% of you guys wouldn't be here is what I am saying.
you want to go on how much you love Kimchi, the Korean people, Korea.. good for you...
I really wonder how many of you would stay if you made 10bucks an hour and paid 30% tax on that.
I would.. because I love Korea, and my life here.
but let me guess you all would right!
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Well for a person with an international relations degree and friends and family that work in the state department and various international NGO's then I would say that a year abroad spent learning the language is valuable and not really just about trying Kimchi. But who am I to argue with a grown man who makes points with smiley faces. |
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Koreadays
Joined: 20 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
Of course I'm here for the money. But that wasn't your initial point. It was that living standards were higher back home.
What we're all saying to you is that people back aren't living like you described; two houses, etc. And that the real average person there is worse off than we are in Korea.
==
And some of us are living quite well in Korea. |
I never said people are not living well in Korea. I expect them to be because thats why they remain.
I never said everyone is better off back home. that would be generalizing.
I said most are doing better off than the average esler here.(my friends)
I agree that many citizens back home are not doing so well.. but so many ESLERs here are not doing that great either. we need to discuss f types only then...
that's what I was saying, In my circle of friends back home, the guys I went to school with. 90% of them own their own home.
50% of them own multiple houses, have great credit scores, and are in careers.. ESL is not a real career , I don't think so anyway.
even the guys who didn't go off to college own their own home, cars etc..
of course life in subjective to what you believe is better living.
how many ESLers own their own home here and can even secure a mortgage? |
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Koreadays
Joined: 20 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
Well for a person with an international relations degree and friends and family that work in the state department and various international NGO's then I would say that a year abroad spent learning the language is valuable and not really just about trying Kimchi. But who am I to argue with a grown man who makes points with smiley faces. |
you are in the wrong thread then. you are vacationing here.
BIG DIFFERENCE! |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| I'm partly intrigued by South Africa, or as the nickname has also gone, South 'lol'frica. Is that place even a first world country? Everywhere I go in Korea it seems to be over-run by SA refugees teaching English not wanting to head back. |
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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
| bcjinseoul wrote: |
| Stalin84 wrote: |
| bcjinseoul wrote: |
| All I know this...the people I knew in high school who became nurses, physical therapists, pharmacists, engineers, scientists, programmers, accountants, LICENSED teachers, or even learned to become a mechanic, electrician, or plumber....guess what: they'll never need to come to Korea to teach English, let alone cut down trees in Canada or work on an oil rig in the Middle East, let alone work for free in the Peace Corps. They have JOB SKILLS. They have MONEY. They have SECURITY. They have CAREERS. They're in their late 20's/early 30's, own new cars and small houses, mostly married, some with kids, debt free and investing, and even if they're making "only" 40-60K a year, they have a big back yard and drive way you'll never get in Korea. Who cares if they're saving only a few hundred dollars a month; after investments and bills and what not? Does the average Korean person have a higher quality of life than the average American/Canadian? HELL NO. They don't have to work 100 hours a week like Koreans, either... |
Nurses and programmers don't make more than we do, here. If you average out a nurse's salary (LPN) it actually comes out to a bit less than what we make after they pay taxes. They also have to spend a lot more time at work. I know this because my sister is a nurse. RN nurses do make more money but when you factor in time spent at work and cost of living, it's not really a better deal than what we have here.
Programming used to pay pretty well but many programmers now, especially at entry level positions, are making far less than what we're making (sometimes marginally above minimum wage) and most companies offer them little chances of advancement.
Licensed teachers do alright but to actually be a licensed teacher with a tenure at a school is damn near impossible. I know people who have been substituting for ten years without being able to find a solid position at a school. It really depends where you are but for Canadians, becoming a teacher is very much luck of the draw. The waiting lists in my province are over 500 candidates for a dozen positions opening up every few years. |
Experienced RNs with MAs are making $100K year.
Very broad statement about programming. If you have a degree in computer science, after 5 years you can make $80-90K a year.
As for the teaching thing in Canada...glad things aren't like that in the States. I've met Canadians who have told me how hard it is to be a teacher, cop, firefighter, doctor and so many other things in Canada. Sorry to hear. |
Actually, the AVERAGE Korean probably DOES have a higher standard of living, because the AVERAGE American does not have adequate medical coverage, and as a result, holds off on adequate medical care until the expense is justified (i.e. the condition has become serious or even life threatening).
As far as the salary thing, the trouble is, you are comparing experienced folks with advanced degrees to the typical, entry-level position for folks fresh out of school. While I doubt nurses with MAs, on average, make $100k a year (my mother, a nurse with an MA and 30 years in did not make that), I will grant that it is possible....
Entry level is entry level, experienced is experienced. The folks with experience (and the corresponding duties and salary) in Korea make noticeably more than their entry-level counterparts. A guy that has been bouncing around from job to job, totting up years without moving past entry level will make quite a bit less than his credentials should draw, but then, the same is true of anyone that bounces from entry level job to entry level job at different companies. |
1) So just because Koreans have a better healthcare system they automatically have better lives? Living in an apartment, 2 1/2 years mandatory military sevice, 60-80 hour work weeks, indentured slaves to their bosses, highest rate of abortion, alcohol consumption, and tobacco use of any modern country and highest suicide rate as well. Speaks for itself...
2) Everyone has to start at the bottom and work their way up. 25 and 30 year old people don't have or make a lot of money, but 45 and 50 year old people usually do. That's the way of the world. |
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bcjinseoul
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| bcjinseoul wrote: |
"....they've probably got mortgages and car payments every month, which is debt. "
--So? If you can manage it, pay it off, and have a great paying career in your own country, who cares?
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So, your claim was they were debt free. They're not debt free. If you have to lie to make your point, you have no point.
***THEY DON'T HAVE STUDENT LOANS AND CREDIT CARD DEBT ANYMORE. Seriously, do you plan on buying a house with 100% cash down one day? Again, if you're making $50,000 a year and your house is less than $100,000 I don't see what the problem is, same thing with buying a late model Honda for under $10,000. It's good have money in the market and in a house while building credit and equity, rather than just becoming addicted to saving tens of thousands of dollars cash in a savings account while NOT building equity and credit in a foreign country...or job skills. You're also not paying into social security over there.***
| Quote: |
"if they're only saving a few hundred a month they didn't plonk down 30k for a new car, and they didn't drop 300k+ for a new house. The only way they own the house already is if they're living in a fixer upper outside the city and commute a ways to work"
--Or, they're in my hometown of Syracuse, NY where most houses cost less than $100K and drive a late model 4 door sedan. I didn't say they were rich, and their family doesn't have to miss them for years and years. |
We've now gone from "new" to "late model"
It's interesting how everyone has to try and fudge things to prove how good people they know back home are doing.
Even at $100k, they didn't pay cash saving only a few hundred a month and they're carrying debt on it. |
***So? That's the way it's done in the West. We don't have to live with our parents till we're 30 and married. As your career progresses, so does your money. Is living in an apartment so awesome? Nothing beats a driveway, garage, car and house of your own with a meaningful and great paying job in your own country. Who the hell doesn't want that? Oh, and it's a lot easier to start a business or buy up real estate back home than in any foreign country....*** |
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interestedinhanguk
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| bcjinseoul wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
| bcjinseoul wrote: |
"....they've probably got mortgages and car payments every month, which is debt. "
--So? If you can manage it, pay it off, and have a great paying career in your own country, who cares?
|
So, your claim was they were debt free. They're not debt free. If you have to lie to make your point, you have no point.
***THEY DON'T HAVE STUDENT LOANS AND CREDIT CARD DEBT ANYMORE. Seriously, do you plan on buying a house with 100% cash down one day? Again, if you're making $50,000 a year and your house is less than $100,000 I don't see what the problem is, same thing with buying a late model Honda for under $10,000. It's good have money in the market and in a house while building credit and equity, rather than just becoming addicted to saving tens of thousands of dollars cash in a savings account while NOT building equity and credit in a foreign country...or job skills. You're also not paying into social security over there.***
| Quote: |
"if they're only saving a few hundred a month they didn't plonk down 30k for a new car, and they didn't drop 300k+ for a new house. The only way they own the house already is if they're living in a fixer upper outside the city and commute a ways to work"
--Or, they're in my hometown of Syracuse, NY where most houses cost less than $100K and drive a late model 4 door sedan. I didn't say they were rich, and their family doesn't have to miss them for years and years. |
We've now gone from "new" to "late model"
It's interesting how everyone has to try and fudge things to prove how good people they know back home are doing.
Even at $100k, they didn't pay cash saving only a few hundred a month and they're carrying debt on it. |
***So? That's the way it's done in the West. We don't have to live with our parents till we're 30 and married. As your career progresses, so does your money. Is living in an apartment so awesome? Nothing beats a driveway, garage, car and house of your own with a meaningful and great paying job in your own country. Who the hell doesn't want that? Oh, and it's a lot easier to start a business or buy up real estate back home than in any foreign country....*** |
Plenty of things beat those. I have no desire for my own car (they're just a liability and are terrible for the environment). I don't mind an apartment; it's super convenient. I don't need anything bigger than my studio. After that it's just wasteful. Not all of us have this desire for material possession. Not all of us feel the need to be wasteful. |
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