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hondaicivic
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Location: Daegu, South Korea
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 Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:24 am Post subject: Japan is turning more inward than Korea |
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http://www.debito.org/
I just got done reading this blog by this Debito guy in Japan and it seems that Japan is regressing and turning more inward than ever before. Has anyone notice this or can have any ideas what's going on over there?
Ex:
1) Japanese only sign still prevalent
2) Finger printing all foreigners entering the country
3) Random stop by the police for ID check for any foreign looking persons
4) Scaling back JET
5) Number of foreigners residing have dropped in the last couple of years. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, it is true, Japan's tasted all the fruits of globalization and have decided to let South Korea or anyone else be the "Yes" man. They've decided to be more selective and do what suits them, and if it means not chasing and getting the carrot, they basically don't give a rat's ass anymore.
If you live in Japan for a while and get into the core of Japanese society, you find there exists a lot of undercurrent beneath all the fads and Harajuku trends, there's a lot of people who loathe all the brands and are proud not to own a TV. They build communities with mutual interests in underground music, mom and pop restaurants, alternative theatre and performance, volunteering to help out at fruit orchards, quirky/fantastic cafes (Hongdae imports some of the ideas, but never come close to the diversity or inventive subversiveness you'll find in various alleyways in Tokyo or Kyoto),...if you do got money to burn there's no shortage of world-class cuisine or big names playing Tokyo Dome, not to mention knock-out getaway hot spring resorts in lush mountain valleys or picturesque canyons with waterfalls cascading into rivers.
The key thing they stress is quality. They know they have a truly great culture, where bad and terrible things happen like anywhere else, with truly bad and terrible people as well. On the whole, their sensibilities work well for them, and they're tired of someone telling them what to do.
In an economical sense, not playing ball like eager beaver Lee Myung Bak has cost them a lot of jobs. But they went through mega amounts of money in the 80's and tripped the light fantastic much farther out in more mind-bending ways than a Confucian mind would even dare to speculate on (much less attempt to comprehend), been there done that, and already know what's behind Wheel of Fortune's door 1, 2, and 3. |
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hondaicivic
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Location: Daegu, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| legrande wrote: |
Yeah, it is true, Japan's tasted all the fruits of globalization and have decided to let South Korea or anyone else be the "Yes" man. They've decided to be more selective and do what suits them, and if it means not chasing and getting the carrot, they basically don't give a rat's ass anymore.
If you live in Japan for a while and get into the core of Japanese society, you find there exists a lot of undercurrent beneath all the fads and Harajuku trends, there's a lot of people who loathe all the brands and are proud not to own a TV. They build communities with mutual interests in underground music, mom and pop restaurants, alternative theatre and performance, volunteering to help out at fruit orchards, quirky/fantastic cafes (Hongdae imports some of the ideas, but never come close to the diversity or inventive subversiveness you'll find in various alleyways in Tokyo or Kyoto),...if you do got money to burn there's no shortage of world-class cuisine or big names playing Tokyo Dome, not to mention knock-out getaway hot spring resorts in lush mountain valleys or picturesque canyons with waterfalls cascading into rivers.
The key thing they stress is quality. They know they have a truly great culture, where bad and terrible things happen like anywhere else, with truly bad and terrible people as well. On the whole, their sensibilities work well for them, and they're tired of someone telling them what to do.
In an economical sense, not playing ball like eager beaver Lee Myung Bak has cost them a lot of jobs. But they went through mega amounts of money in the 80's and tripped the light fantastic much farther out in more mind-bending ways than a Confucian mind would even dare to speculate on (much less attempt to comprehend), been there done that, and already know what's behind Wheel of Fortune's door 1, 2, and 3. |
whoa......that was an awesome explanation. (I'm not being sarcastic by the way) |
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Stalin84
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Haebangchon, Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| hondaicivic wrote: |
| legrande wrote: |
Yeah, it is true, Japan's tasted all the fruits of globalization and have decided to let South Korea or anyone else be the "Yes" man. They've decided to be more selective and do what suits them, and if it means not chasing and getting the carrot, they basically don't give a rat's ass anymore.
If you live in Japan for a while and get into the core of Japanese society, you find there exists a lot of undercurrent beneath all the fads and Harajuku trends, there's a lot of people who loathe all the brands and are proud not to own a TV. They build communities with mutual interests in underground music, mom and pop restaurants, alternative theatre and performance, volunteering to help out at fruit orchards, quirky/fantastic cafes (Hongdae imports some of the ideas, but never come close to the diversity or inventive subversiveness you'll find in various alleyways in Tokyo or Kyoto),...if you do got money to burn there's no shortage of world-class cuisine or big names playing Tokyo Dome, not to mention knock-out getaway hot spring resorts in lush mountain valleys or picturesque canyons with waterfalls cascading into rivers.
The key thing they stress is quality. They know they have a truly great culture, where bad and terrible things happen like anywhere else, with truly bad and terrible people as well. On the whole, their sensibilities work well for them, and they're tired of someone telling them what to do.
In an economical sense, not playing ball like eager beaver Lee Myung Bak has cost them a lot of jobs. But they went through mega amounts of money in the 80's and tripped the light fantastic much farther out in more mind-bending ways than a Confucian mind would even dare to speculate on (much less attempt to comprehend), been there done that, and already know what's behind Wheel of Fortune's door 1, 2, and 3. |
whoa......that was an awesome explanation. (I'm not being sarcastic by the way) |
Yeah, I was going to write a comment at length and then I read what legrande had to say and that was the end of that idea. Brilliantly put.
My personal experience in Japan was that I found Japan to already be a lot more inwardly focussed than Korea is now. Far less English, far less exposure and the Japanese people I met and/or worked with seemed to care far less about Western culture or ideas than your average Korean which is saying a lot.
While my experience in Japan was negative, I don't intend to say this in a bad way. I commend them for going against the globalized grain and continuing to do so further however the thing that really struck me about Japan, personally, is that other foreigners in Korea and elsewhere had spent so many worlds building the country up that I thought it would be a much more welcoming, understanding, open and liberal place than Korea. Only did I discover that it may have used to be and as legrande put it: been there done that, and already know what's behind Wheel of Fortune's door 1, 2, and 3.
The general vibe I got from Japan wasn't so much hostility but a giant "we don't care about your culture or your language." As an English teacher it was: "we wouldn't a foreigner like you within a thousand feet of our schools if the government wasn't forcing us." All the while speaking in a soft voice and smiling.
I'll be honest and say that the Japanese confuse and scare me a little bit, now. |
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nero
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:37 am Post subject: |
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They got the shit bombed out of them in the only nuclear attack in the history of the world. I'm surprised the Japanese let Americans into the friggen country in the first place. It suited them and they hired westerners and now they see the farce that it is and will move on. It's business.
As an aside, they seem far more secure doing their own shit. Koreans are constant followers. I hope, eventually, Koreans will grow up and become their own people without that constant inferiority complex - 'look at us - no.1' annoying b.s. I guess when the rest of Asia is done and done with learning English they will realise it's not proof of how developed you are and follow suit. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Why must every nation be globalized? Japan may decide on her own path. |
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interestedinhanguk
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| South Korea (without Japan) as the lone Asian democracy? |
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redaxe
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
| South Korea (without Japan) as the lone Asian democracy? |
Taiwan is also a democracy, and so are the Philippines and several other countries in the region but I will assume you meant East Asia or even Northeast Asia and leave it at that. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| redaxe wrote: |
| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
| South Korea (without Japan) as the lone Asian democracy? |
Taiwan is also a democracy, and so are the Philippines and several other countries in the region but I will assume you meant East Asia or even Northeast Asia and leave it at that. |
And there is that small country called India plus another dinky country called Indonesia. And even if he meant NE Asia, apparently Mongolia slipped his mind. |
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legrande
Joined: 23 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| redaxe wrote: |
| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
| South Korea (without Japan) as the lone Asian democracy? |
Taiwan is also a democracy, and so are the Philippines and several other countries in the region but I will assume you meant East Asia or even Northeast Asia and leave it at that. |
And there is that small country called India plus another dinky country called Indonesia. And even if he meant NE Asia, apparently Mongolia slipped his mind. |
He also assumes that opting out of the globalization rat race means you're no longer democratic. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| legrande wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| redaxe wrote: |
| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
| South Korea (without Japan) as the lone Asian democracy? |
Taiwan is also a democracy, and so are the Philippines and several other countries in the region but I will assume you meant East Asia or even Northeast Asia and leave it at that. |
And there is that small country called India plus another dinky country called Indonesia. And even if he meant NE Asia, apparently Mongolia slipped his mind. |
He also assumes that opting out of the globalization rat race means you're no longer democratic. |
I noticed that, too. Why can't an inward-facing Japan be democratic? Wasn't Japan at its most autocratic when it looked outward and tried to dominate East Asia?
But, par for the Guardian op-ed course. |
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interestedinhanguk
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| redaxe wrote: |
| interestedinhanguk wrote: |
| South Korea (without Japan) as the lone Asian democracy? |
Taiwan is also a democracy, and so are the Philippines and several other countries in the region but I will assume you meant East Asia or even Northeast Asia and leave it at that. |
I know. The article stated that South Korea would be the lone Asian democracy which is a bunch of baloney. Thus my question mark at the end of my sentence. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe Korea should hold a summit conference where they will get permission to colonize Japan. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Japan is turning more inward than Korea |
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| hondaicivic wrote: |
http://www.debito.org/
I just got done reading this blog by this Debito guy in Japan and it seems that Japan is regressing and turning more inward than ever before. Has anyone notice this or can have any ideas what's going on over there?
Ex:
1) Japanese only sign still prevalent
2) Finger printing all foreigners entering the country
3) Random stop by the police for ID check for any foreign looking persons
4) Scaling back JET
5) Number of foreigners residing have dropped in the last couple of years. |
I'm in Japan. Tons of foreign residents throughout Japan, doing all kinds of different things. In Korea, it seemed like all the foreginers were so much easier to pigeonhole. You knew they were either esl teacher, military, factory worker, etc. Whereas in Japan, you really get the entire spectrum of people from all over the world living here. Not only that, but you get a ton of tourists all over Japan.
However, your 4 & 5, the english interest levels are nowhere near as high as Korea. However, Japan is trying to follow some of Korea's example to instill it at a younger age. That being said, Japan seems to attract a lot of foreigners from all over the world who are obsessed about Japan and who come in knowing a high level of Japanese. I see foreigners all over the place here who are quite conversational in Japanese. In return, most Japanese only speak Japanese to them and with them, in restaurants, in the streets, etc.
Additionally, the younger generations of Japan, are just indifferent to English. They are content with all that Japan has to offer, and really lack the interest to emigrate abroad, or work in an international company. They seem to be more into getting into rock bands, and just hanging out here in Japan.
#3...random checks. I've never had that happen in my three years here. Don't know how common it is, but never had it happen, nor have I heard of any other foreigner that have had it happened either.
#2 fingerprinting. It's just SMART. Why not do that? Sure it is a problem if you are a criminal...but as a foreigner, I'd rather have them catch the criminal, even if they are a foreigner. Not a big issue to me at all.
#1 Japanese signs are still prevalant. Yeah, very true. Most things are in Japanese, and NOT very English friendly. It's kind of ridiculous actually. I don't think they are 'reverting' though, they have just never thought about it, or never had the interest. Who knows. |
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