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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
5) Korea focuses on math from an early age and has a better system of teaching it than Canada. It seems that Korea rewards "good" math teachers so that they are able to retain excellent math teachers in both schools and hawgwons. In Canada those good with math usually go into something more lucrative. |
Interesting. One of my friends was a math teacher for the best part of 3 decades before coming to Korea. He told me that the teaching of math here is abysmal. Mind you, he's not from Canada. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
5) Korea focuses on math from an early age and has a better system of teaching it than Canada. It seems that Korea rewards "good" math teachers so that they are able to retain excellent math teachers in both schools and hawgwons. In Canada those good with math usually go into something more lucrative. |
Interesting. One of my friends was a math teacher for the best part of 3 decades before coming to Korea. He told me that the teaching of math here is abysmal. Mind you, he's not from Canada. |
I'm not sure if teaching math is better, but they are teaching material a couple of years ahead of what is typical in Canada. If the reason for this is because students grasp it better, or they just don't care about students who fall back, I don't know. Also, the first year Asian students I've met throughout my studies do have a solid foundation in math. But if you travel overseas to study a hardcore science, then you are pretty bright to start off.
Note: I'm not originally a teacher, but an engineer. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
I'm not sure if teaching math is better, but they are teaching material a couple of years ahead of what is typical in Canada. If the reason for this is because students grasp it better, or they just don't care about students who fall back, I don't know. Also, the first year Asian students I've met throughout my studies do have a solid foundation in math. But if you travel overseas to study a hardcore science, then you are pretty bright to start off.
Note: I'm not originally a teacher, but an engineer. |
My friend was tutoring some Korean kids in math back home. He said for their age their math skills were severely lacking compared to students in his country (Australia). |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Elementary school music is a heck of a lot better here.
All of the children get recorder instruction and xylophone instruction.
The first time I passed out a song sheet here in Korea, the children started sightsinging "so-so la-la so-so mi" before I was even through passing them out.
In the United States, anyone who could decipher a song without sounding it out on a keyboard is considered a genius. |
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rockymtn
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:48 am Post subject: |
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When we are comparing styles of teching we are really just comparing an individual to another individual. I think it difficult to watch one person and use them as the standard to represent a countries acedemic program. I've seen great math programs and then there are others who need a lot of help.
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| I read an article about hogwons in America |
There are Korean Hagowans in larger Korean communities here in the US. They are run like Sylvan/Tutor Club chains from what I've noticed.
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| in the US coteaching is all the rage right now |
The theory of coteaching is a hot topic. Practially... it's difficult to implement and there are different styles to coteaching depending on who you ask. Some say 2 adults in the same room is coteaching and others say it's 2 teachers teaching the same subject together, with a variety of other 2 adult combinations. With so many other responsibilities coteaching has become a teaching technique that you should do, if you have time. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Co-teaching probably can work well when you have 2 people who can communicate with each other, plan their lessons together and help each other out.
What usually happens in Korean PS classes though is pretty much the opposite. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| In some cases, it should be called "anti-teaching." |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| rockymtn wrote: |
When we are comparing styles of teching we are really just comparing an individual to another individual. I think it difficult to watch one person and use them as the standard to represent a countries acedemic program. I've seen great math programs and then there are others who need a lot of help.
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I agree, and in Canada, trying to make greater cultural generalizations can be counter-productive for you. However there are some lessons you can take back and I think that's where "big picture" comes in. For instance, The observation about school lunches: it's something that's very rare in North America to say the least, but very common throughout Korea. No, you won't be in a position and neither will your principal to implement that kind of program but it's a good answer to an observation question. I'm thinking a question along the lines of "Tell me something you liked and something you disliked about your experience in a public school in South Korea".
And really, you never know, you may be a principal or superintendent one day and school lunches may be a hot button topic in your district. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
I'm not sure if teaching math is better, but they are teaching material a couple of years ahead of what is typical in Canada. If the reason for this is because students grasp it better, or they just don't care about students who fall back, I don't know. Also, the first year Asian students I've met throughout my studies do have a solid foundation in math. But if you travel overseas to study a hardcore science, then you are pretty bright to start off.
Note: I'm not originally a teacher, but an engineer. |
My friend was tutoring some Korean kids in math back home. He said for their age their math skills were severely lacking compared to students in his country (Australia). |
I guess you've never seen the sad state of math and science in Canadian schools. I remember being in grade 10 math and a good portion of my classmates couldn't grasp why 10% was 0.10. That was when I decided to go into the 'advanced' math class in grade 11, it wasn't much better. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
I guess you've never seen the sad state of math and science in Canadian schools. I remember being in grade 10 math and a good portion of my classmates couldn't grasp why 10% was 0.10. That was when I decided to go into the 'advanced' math class in grade 11, it wasn't much better. |
In my old high school, honours students were introduced to using mathematical rigour in grade 10 and they finished a typical first year university calculus curricula by the end of grade 12. It's not that we don't have people who can't teach math (at least at high school level), it's that we have a culture that says failing at math is (kind of) acceptable.
I may concede the point on elementary school teachers though. An elementary school teacher friend of mine asked me the answer to a trivia question and I answered "2 to the power 30". Her completely irony-free response was "What's that in numbers?" This is someone who could theoretically have a full-time job teaching Grade 6-8 math. You could argue that this is a bad example (to be fair the trivia question rounded the answer to a billion) or that she's just one individual, but I think it's not so uncommon for teachers in those grades to lack an understanding of what numbers are, basic skills like arithmetic and algebra, and what math is *really* about. I think it goes to what Mr. Pink was saying about students who were good at math. Students who want to teach and go to university to study math-intensive subjects become high school math and science teachers, not elementary teachers. |
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rockymtn
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Co-teaching probably can work well when you have 2 people who can communicate with each other, plan their lessons together and help each other out. |
Yes I agree, if you have 2 adults on the same page they can accomplish some pretty great things in a classroom. The over spending in American gov't has my state cutting back school budgets. They are stuffing more kids in a classroom to layoff teachers. Having 2 teachers to coteach in a single classroom is a distance luxury in the US at this time. Where does the Korean MOE's get all their funding for high tech classrooms? |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| rockymtn wrote: |
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| Co-teaching probably can work well when you have 2 people who can communicate with each other, plan their lessons together and help each other out. |
Yes I agree, if you have 2 adults on the same page they can accomplish some pretty great things in a classroom. The over spending in American gov't has my state cutting back school budgets. They are stuffing more kids in a classroom to layoff teachers. Having 2 teachers to coteach in a single classroom is a distance luxury in the US at this time. Where does the Korean MOE's get all their funding for high tech classrooms? |
I don't think co-teaching is standard in Korea except in the case with NETs. Keep in mind most NETs only see students once a week and teach upwards of 800 students or more. Also, even regular classroom sizes are substantially larger in Korea than in the US. Junior high class sizes I taught at were about 40-45 students (that may have come down a bit since then). What's the size of public school class sizes in the US? About 25 students? Another thing, the kids took public transit to school and I believe they paid for it out of their own pocket. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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I think Co-teaching was devised as a way to placate the KTU.
As long as the NET has to co-teach, there is no loss of jobs for Korean teachers.
I don't think much (if any) planning went into the implementation of the program, it was just decreed that "co-teaching" is the way of the future. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoul'n'Corea wrote: |
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| when droves of non-Koreans come to Korea and get their children educated, then I think your question would hold more weight. |
Right, I'd also like to point out that there are NO international(overseas) Korean schools in other countries.
Funny how that works.
Korean Education scores in the bottom 30% in the OECD, maybe that's why.
what I see in Korea is a lack of diversity and curriculum implementation across the board. No planning is evident by any Korean teacher I have ever met in my 3.5 years here. The education system doesn't take into account any learning difference or student need.
 I have had kids doing tests (beyond their capabilities) that are being judged based on their peers scores for their performance mark. From a marking standpoint that's absolutely asinine!
 Korean teachers need MUCH better training than they're getting. |
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic, but there are indeed TONS of Korean International schools abroad. I would be willing to wager, there are more Korean international schools within China than there are English international schools within Asia.
Please note I am not speaking to the fact that these are run exactly like Korean schools are in Korea. They are in fact not. Since they are privately run, and usually to line some Korean guy's pockets, they have terrible reputations as far as Westerners are concerned, however, the fact is there are tons of them out there. I know of 4 located within Tianjin. I am sure there are more than that! |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
5) Korea focuses on math from an early age and has a better system of teaching it than Canada. It seems that Korea rewards "good" math teachers so that they are able to retain excellent math teachers in both schools and hawgwons. In Canada those good with math usually go into something more lucrative. |
Interesting. One of my friends was a math teacher for the best part of 3 decades before coming to Korea. He told me that the teaching of math here is abysmal. Mind you, he's not from Canada. |
I never had a decent math teacher. They are in SO much demand, there are lots of people who go and take the minimum qualifications to teach math just so they can get a job. How can that sort of teacher compare to someone with a 4 year math degree who knows math inside and out? |
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