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danpaesan
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
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 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| Power to the People, Right On!! May the people of Egypt be allowed to exercise self-determination which is a universial human right. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Protests in Algeria
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lgerian security forces and pro-democracy protesters have clashed in the capital, Algiers, amid demonstrations inspired by the revolution in Egypt.
At least 2,000 protesters were able to overcome a security cordon enforced around the city's May First Square on Saturday, joining other demonstrators calling for reform.
Earlier, thousands of police in riot gear were in position to stop the demonstrations that could mimic the uprising which forced out Hosni Mubarak, Egypt's president of three decades.
Security forces closed all entrances to Algiers and arrested hundreds of protesters, sources told Al Jazeera.
Elias Filali, an Algerian blogger and activist, said human rights activists and syndicate members were among those arrested at the scene of the protests.
"I'm right in the middle of the march," he told Al Jazeera. "People are being arrested and are heavily guarded by the police."
Officials banned Saturday's opposition march but protesters were determined to see it through. |
Algeria's President Claims Emergency Law Will Be Lifted in Near Future
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Algeria's 19-year state of emergency will be lifted in the "very near future", state media has quoted Abdelaziz Bouteflika, the president, as saying.
During a meeting with ministers on Thursday, the president also said Algerian television and radio, which are controlled by the state, should give airtime to all political parties.
He added that protest marches, banned under the state of emergency, would be permitted across the country of 35 million except in the capital.
His comments come as anti-government protests escalate in Egypt and follows a wave of similar uprisings in other Arab states including Tunisia and Yemen. |
Fascinating stuff. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:22 am Post subject: |
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Mubarak was an ameteur, I overestimated him. His downfall was not keeping enough loyal placemen in key positions within the military.
Seems like Egypt got lucky. Thats not a mistake most dictators make.
Monsters like Gaddafi (in power 38 years), Mugabe (31 years) and dos Santos (30 years) all shored up their power gradually and almost imperceptibly over decades. Part of their success is down to tactics such as disarming and then impoverishing the people. Building a food chain of selective patronisation. Getting rid of your middle class. Building an oversized army, and keeping them loyal by giving them benefits over and above the rest of the population. In such one-party states, protesting on the streets accomplishes nothing except giving the army some target practise.
Perhaps we have turned a corner now though with the electronic age., -although this has not arrived yet in many places. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Protests in Yemen for 4th straight day
Al Jazeera says its been 3 days in a row though
I seriously doubt this is going to lead to change though. I have a hunch they are small-scale protests.
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| SANAA, Yemen � Thousands protested in Yemen for a fourth straight day Monday, demanding political reforms and the ouster of the U.S.-allied president in demonstrations inspired by the upheaval in Egypt. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Algeria Set for Weekly Protests
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Algerian opposition groups have said they will follow up the protests held this weekend by calling a demonstration in Algiers, the capital, every Saturday until the government is changed.
"We will continue to march until the regime steps down. Each Saturday we will maintain the pressure," said Mohsen Belabes, a spokesman for the RCD opposition party which helped organised the demonstrations. |
While I'm not familiar with Algerian politics at all, for some reason I'm skeptical this will amount to anything of importance.
edits: cleaned up the quote.
Last edited by bucheon bum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:28 am; edited 2 times in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| The only state that would make me nervous should mass protests happen would be Pakistan. Algeria, Yemen, Bahrain are unimportant states. Pakistan is a whole other problem. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Thousands protested in Yemen for a fourth straight day Monday, demanding political reforms and the ouster of the U.S.-allied president |
What do they want exactly, a democratic regime or an islamic one?
Or do they not care, just so long as its anti-American? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Thousands protested in Yemen for a fourth straight day Monday, demanding political reforms and the ouster of the U.S.-allied president |
What do they want exactly, a democratic regime or an islamic one?
Or do they not care, just so long as its anti-American? |
Just as long as it is not Salah I imagine. And that's another reason I think this won't amount to much; there is too large a dichotomy between the various groups and their list of grievances is not as unified as it was in Egypt and Tunisia.
My friend at the State Dept. fears the most about Yemen, but I really don't know why. It would just become another version of Afghanistan. Sure, that sucks, but there are worse things in the world (from a security perspective). I agree with Mises that Pakistan is the biggest threat. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Libya, Bahrain, Iran, Yemen it is spreading. Iran the government immediately used violence and of course will round up and torture /execute the opposition leadersand their families and that will be the end. But in Libya it could just be starting. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Stratfor downplays the decisiveness of the civilian protestors, claims what occurred in Egypt was a military putsch.
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The demonstrators never called for the downfall of the regime. They demanded that Mubarak step aside. This was the same demand that was being made by many if not most officers in the military months before the crowds gathered in the streets. The military did not like the spectacle of the crowds, which is not the way the military likes to handle political matters. At the same time, paradoxically, the military welcomed the demonstrations, since they created a crisis that put the question of Mubarak�s future on the table. They gave the military an opportunity to save the regime and preserve its own interests.
What happened was not a revolution. The demonstrators never brought down Mubarak, let alone the regime. What happened was a military coup that used the cover of protests to force Mubarak out of office in order to preserve the regime. When it became clear Feb. 10 that Mubarak would not voluntarily step down, the military staged what amounted to a coup to force his resignation. Once he was forced out of office, the military took over the existing regime by creating a military council and taking control of critical ministries. The regime was always centered on the military. What happened on Feb. 11 was that the military took direct control. |
Tunisia was bona fide inspiring. Egypt was more of a spectacle. Iran may prove another fruitless bloodbath. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Look who Clinton picked as the special envoy to AfPak.
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/02/16/obama-administration%E2%80%99s-neocon-easter/
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Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has chosen a new special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan: a long-time controversial neocon, a man who has been famous for parading as a foreign agent in the lobby circuit, the scandalous former diplomat Marc Grossman. The not-so-gradual resurrection of the old neocon cabal under the Obama administration, led by Hillary Clinton, should not come as a surprise. According to Washington insiders, Daniel Perle and Douglas Feith have been consulted more than a few times in their �unofficial� capacity, but are not far down in the queue to receive �official� acknowledgement. This shouldn�t come as a surprise; at least to those who�ve been following the steady momentum building at the Obama White House towards a soon-to-come Neocon Easter.
Hillary Clinton appointed Dennis Ross as Special Advisor for the Persian Gulf and Southwest Asia; a man well-known as a hard-core neocon, Paul Wolfowitz� prot�g�, cofounder of the AIPAC sponsored Washington Institute for Near East Policy, and one of the loudest advocates for the Israel lobby. A man who is known to consider himself more Israeli than American; a Jewish American who is known to have spent �a lot of time� in Israel to find his real identity-nationality.
We had Frederick Kagan, a neocon of choice for Mr. Obama, who was hired to manage General Petraeus on Afghanistan.
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Let�s jump to our newest and by far the boldest Neocon addition to the Obama-Clinton Whitehouse. Marc Grossman is chosen by the administration to fill the seat vacated by Richard Holbrooke...
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He now is vice chairman of the Cohen Group, which advises international business clients on overseas enterprises. Although the consulting group, headed by former defense secretary William Cohen, has several clients with contracts in South Asia, administration officials said they did not foresee any problem in clearing Grossman for the post.
�
Grossman works for the sin city�s (Washington DC) lobby industry. Not only that, he actually represents foreign governments, foreign businesses and interests. The Cohen Group represents some of the country�s largest weapons manufacturers, companies that stand to benefit from weapons sales: Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Sikorsky�among others. Their list of controversial and or criminal entities includes companies such as DynCorp International. Through their partnership with DLA Piper, the Cohen group also serves foreign clients such as the Turkish government and business interest groups, Australia�s scandalous AWB, India and UAE.
...
- The investigative reports on Marc Grossman and his role in planting moles in US nuclear facilities:
...
-Marc Grossman was the originator of the Plame Leak:
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-In late December 2005, Grossman joined Ihlas Holding, a large and alleged shady Turkish company which is also active in several Central Asian countries. Grossman is reported to receive $100,000 per month for his advisory position with Ihlas.
-In May 2010, DLA Piper, one of the world�s largest international lobby-law firms, hired Marc Grossman as their front man for their Turkish operations. The man in charge of one of DLA Piper major accounts-Turkey is none other than our good ole Dennis Hastert. That makes two former FBI criminal targets for one firm;-)
Now, with all these murky qualifications, you�d think the mainstream media would have a field day with Marc Grossman�s appointment by the Hillary-Obama administration; right? Wrong. So far, not a peep from the US media and that includes both the �R� and the �D� fronts.
..
Frank Wisner, President Barack Obama�s envoy to Cairo who infuriated the White House this weekend by urging Hosni Mubarak to remain President of Egypt, works for a New York and Washington law firm which works for the dictator�s own Egyptian government.
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Mr Wisner is a retired State Department 36-year career diplomat � he served as US ambassador to Egypt, Zambia, the Philippines and India under eight American presidents. In other words, he was not a political appointee.
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^ Too long to post here in full.
Kuros, it isn't Antiwar.com that is engaging in wishful thinking re: the neo-cons. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Kuros, it isn't Antiwar.com that is engaging in wishful thinking re: the neo-cons. |
Tell me, who is it, then?
Looks like the military-industrial complex's lobbyists to me. I'm sorry, but, outside of the normal disdain for very typical corporate capture, I still don't care. The US isn't going to invade Iran anytime soon because of these appointments. The neo-con movement is dead. Those who once composed it are now career-politicians. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Stratfor downplays the decisiveness of the civilian protestors, claims what occurred in Egypt was a military putsch.
| Quote: |
The demonstrators never called for the downfall of the regime. They demanded that Mubarak step aside. This was the same demand that was being made by many if not most officers in the military months before the crowds gathered in the streets. The military did not like the spectacle of the crowds, which is not the way the military likes to handle political matters. At the same time, paradoxically, the military welcomed the demonstrations, since they created a crisis that put the question of Mubarak�s future on the table. They gave the military an opportunity to save the regime and preserve its own interests.
What happened was not a revolution. The demonstrators never brought down Mubarak, let alone the regime. What happened was a military coup that used the cover of protests to force Mubarak out of office in order to preserve the regime. When it became clear Feb. 10 that Mubarak would not voluntarily step down, the military staged what amounted to a coup to force his resignation. Once he was forced out of office, the military took over the existing regime by creating a military council and taking control of critical ministries. The regime was always centered on the military. What happened on Feb. 11 was that the military took direct control. |
Tunisia was bona fide inspiring. Egypt was more of a spectacle. Iran may prove another fruitless bloodbath. |
I think it is too early to tell with egypt, but I do think the press hasn't emphasized the military angle enough. It is true that it was basically a coup d'etat. The question is will the military act like the Turkish and Bangladeshi militaries or more like the Thai? Or even worse- like the Burmese junta?
I don't know the other two dudes at all, but Dennis Ross suuuuucks. The fewer vested interests we have in a country, the more likely things will turn out all right. That's why I have more hope for Tunisia than Egypt. Bahrain? They're screwed since our freaking 5th fleet is based there.
NY Times article
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Two protesters have been killed in Bahrain. The authorities also blocked a video channel that was carrying images uploaded by demonstrators in Pearl Square, a traffic circle the protesters have dubbed Bahrain�s Tahrir Square.
But on Tuesday, Mr. Obama did not mention the violence in Bahrain and chose to draw his distinction between Egypt�s successful uprising and the 2009 crackdown in Iran. |
| Quote: |
| The official said the administration deplored violence anywhere it occurred, and late on Tuesday the State Department issued a statement saying it was �very concerned� about the two deaths in Bahrain. But the official noted that Bahrain�s monarch, King Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa, had responded to the deaths by calling on Tuesday for an investigation and promising to continue a process of political reforms. |
Right, we should have faith in a monarch. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| The neo-con movement is dead. |
With what evidence do you make that statement? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Kuros wrote:
The neo-con movement is dead.
With what evidence do you make that statement? |
Not in this thread.
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| I think it is too early to tell with egypt, but I do think the press hasn't emphasized the military angle enough. It is true that it was basically a coup d'etat. The question is will the military act like the Turkish and Bangladeshi militaries or more like the Thai? Or even worse- like the Burmese junta? |
It looks like the Egyptian military is probably the most enlightened institution in Egypt. Apparently, the colleges are nearly worthless and the state controls the economy. The military may be Egypt's only hope. And there's still plenty of hope, I think Friedman's take is actually a bit too sour.
But the hope lies ahead with planning and foundation of the proper institutions. The mobs and protestors were a catalyst, and they make great headlines, but either the military will deliver some sort of representative system, or they will once again install one of their own. |
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