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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Slowmotion wrote: |
| willteachforfood wrote: |
All in all....I think that a person who makes $2500/month lives better in Korea than someone who makes the same amount in the US. "Lives better" meaning that they have more disposable income and can be more free with their money.......of course they don't live better, Korea is a crappy country....but that's not what we're arguing here. |
Most of that extra disposable income comes from the fact most people(NETs) don't pay for a car and insurance. A car isn't a necessity here, where as back home, pretty much everyone drives. Hell even ghetto people have a car, have you seen the people that ride public transportation in some of these cities?
If a car was a necessity here it'd wouldn't be any better.
| willteachforfood wrote: |
People in these cities are paid more because of the laws of supply and demand....if the employers, whether they be public or private, do not pay higher wages, allowing their employees to afford the higher cost of living then they wouldn't be able to find employees. They do not do this out of the goodness of their heart....furthermore, the companies generally earn more money in these large markets as well. |
Sorry I'm not an economics major or anything, but isn't Seoul considered a "large market" as well?
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If the salaries offered to teachers in Seoul are not sufficient for the teachers to live off of, then people will stop accepting these jobs....but guess what? Jobs in Seoul tend to fill up rather quickly....perhaps the salaries are indeed sufficient to cover the cost of living in the city.
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Jobs also fill up in Seoul because it's highly competitive in Korea. People would rather make some money than no money at all.
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Again....as Steelrails pointed out, life is not fair. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer....this is how the world has always run, runs now, and always will run. It is only the relative concept of what is rich and what is poor that changes....a poor person today is better off than a poor person in 1850, but the structure is the same.
The price of housing will only go up if people can afford to pay it....if there is nobody who can afford the price of housing, then the price will fall...so, clearly people have the money to pay for this increase in housing prices or the increases would simply never come about as landlords will lower the price on vacant units until they find a renter/buyer.
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So the problem is most people can afford it, but we are paying more and more each year. The rent on my place is going up to 800,000 a month this year. Any reason they need to raise it? The problem is I don't have many options unless I want to move to a lousy area (where the price also probably went up as well) so I have to cough up the money. Yes I can afford it, but each year housing is eating up a bigger percentage of my salary.
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Everyone would like to earn more money, this is a given. Across the board salaries DO increase with inflation, perhaps not at the exact same moment but they do increase. I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that if you were to provide me with a print-out of your yearly income over the past 5 years (assuming they were all in Korea) that your income has indeed increased to keep pace with inflation.
You have a very naive view/understanding of the world my friend....it is best that you stay in education and never enter the world of business. |
So like you said, salaries do increase with inflation, and in this thread I was simply trying to figure out when that will happen. But apparently according to steelrails, I have to find a better job, invest in stock, grow my own garden, hand wash my own clothes, make my own furniture, buy cheap goods, not buy fabreeze, and describe a process in detail about getting this extra money instead. But as you said, salaries increase with inflation, so why aren't you arguing with your new butt buddy about that?
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| If Slowmotion had been a student at my uni back then, undoubtedly he would have been one of the numb nuts to march in both rallies. Even if he couldn't afford Febreeze to 'clean' his clothes before the rally....actually this was well before the days of Febreeze. |
Look I know you and steelrails had your difference in the past, but please don't attack me for asking questions in here and trying to get an answer just because you want to kiss steelrails arse and try to kiss and make up. |
Couple of things...
Inflation is not that high in S. Korea. Probably less than 3 to 3.5% per year. That's not too bad.
I don't know if English teacher salaries are going up with changes in whatever the Korean CPI is, but, salaries will go up once teachers stop coming to Korea.
Right now, lots of college grads are desperate for jobs so they'll pretty much take any job. Why should they keep paying you more? Salary adjustments, especially in a field like ESL, will always be a "late" reaction to the market situation.
They're raising your rent because they can. If you owned property and you could raise your rent by that much, you would do it. You'd be stupid not to. Someone is going to pay that price for the unit. You should always charge as much as you can fetch on the market. Something in the market is telling your owner that he can charge 800 more. |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Inflation is not that high in S. Korea. Probably less than 3 to 3.5% per year. |
that would be WRONG.
it'd definitely higher.
Inflation has been fanned by the constant artificial supression of their crap currency the last several years. Since this country has no natural resources of its own and barely feeds itself (on just rice and kimchi) it has to buy things from other places/people.
Since their currency is crap, they need to pay more to buy something abroad, even though its value in say USD hasn't moved much. It's a circle that feeds itself.
Of note is also the accepted fact that prices in Korea for various consumer goods are among the highest in the OECD to begin with. Only Scandinavia is similar. |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ Link it up then chinggu. |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
| ^ Link it up then chinggu. |
these are official statistics which I believe systematically UNDERSTATE inflation (by at least a percentage point, usually two)
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/business/news/article_1616103.php/South-Korean-consumer-prices-up-trade-surplus-shrinks
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Seoul - Consumer prices in South Korea increased by 4.1 per cent in January year-on-year, dragged up by price rises in agricultural products and energy, the government said Tuesday. |
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The government has been fighting a losing battle to keep inflation down at around 3 per cent, among others by easing import taxes on basic goods, freezing public service fees and college tuition.
Prices for fresh food were up 30.2 per cent year-on-year and energy costs increased by 10.9 per cent. |
http://asiansecurityblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/koreas-rhetorical-commitment-to-globalization-and-the-reality-of-its-statist-political-economy/
from CIA 2010 factbook..
Korean inflation rate/consumer prices for 2008 - 4.7%
http://eng.cfe.org/mboard/bbsDetail.asp?cid=mn2007713123749&idx=1956
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Many Koreans have sympathy for the weak. We tend to cheer a losing team in a sports game. The market has been dominated by suppliers or producers, with consumers` interest hardly respected . Small firms and merchants have long lived in a sanctuary. Farmers are also heavily protected. Now, we`re witnessing a paradigm change in sanctuary protection.
The debate has been focused on the conflicts among suppliers - between big and small firms or big outlets and mom-and-pop grocery stores. Consumers have been always ignored while small firms and merchants heavily protected. Under the circumstances, consumers had no option but to buy mediocre products at high prices. |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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^
Well that there is some linkage. That security blog is a good'n. |
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Caffeinated
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Dec. 2010 - 49,900 won
Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Feb. 2011 - 63,500 won |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Caffeinated wrote: |
Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Dec. 2010 - 49,900 won
Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Feb. 2011 - 63,500 won |
that's about 26-27% annual inflation.
Par for the course on Korean food.
in 2008, at the height of global troubles and fears of deflation, 2 canned products I liked to buy DOUBLED in price.
that's right. Doubled.
They should issue a T shirt to everyone in this country. I thought this was previously only applicable to the Japanese but Koreans fit right in.
The shirt should have a bullseye drawn on it, with the caption:
"charge me more, I'm Korean". |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Vagabundo wrote: |
| Caffeinated wrote: |
Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Dec. 2010 - 49,900 won
Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Feb. 2011 - 63,500 won |
that's about 26-27% annual inflation.
Par for the course on Korean food.
in 2008, at the height of global troubles and fears of deflation, 2 canned products I liked to buy DOUBLED in price.
that's right. Doubled.
They should issue a T shirt to everyone in this country. I thought this was previously only applicable to the Japanese but Koreans fit right in.
The shirt should have a bullseye drawn on it, with the caption:
"charge me more, I'm Korean". |
Inflation is not 27% in Korea. Not even close. Just because the chicken on G-Mart went up by that much doesn't mean that chicken prices across the country went up by that much. Businesses a lot of times make independent, non-market related decisions all the time.
Also, if you buy things that aren't in high demand, price fluctuations tend to be a lot higher.
I agree that in Korea some things are outrageously expensive, but inflation is nowhere near 30%. It's less than 5%.
Of course, if you're only buying foreign food products (not saying you are) the prices of those things can fluctuate by 50% in a given year. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: |
| Vagabundo wrote: |
| Caffeinated wrote: |
Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Dec. 2010 - 49,900 won
Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Feb. 2011 - 63,500 won |
that's about 26-27% annual inflation.
Par for the course on Korean food.
in 2008, at the height of global troubles and fears of deflation, 2 canned products I liked to buy DOUBLED in price.
that's right. Doubled.
They should issue a T shirt to everyone in this country. I thought this was previously only applicable to the Japanese but Koreans fit right in.
The shirt should have a bullseye drawn on it, with the caption:
"charge me more, I'm Korean". |
Inflation is not 27% in Korea. Not even close. Just because the chicken on G-Mart went up by that much doesn't mean that chicken prices across the country went up by that much. Businesses a lot of times make independent, non-market related decisions all the time.
Also, if you buy things that aren't in high demand, price fluctuations tend to be a lot higher.
I agree that in Korea some things are outrageously expensive, but inflation is nowhere near 30%. It's less than 5%.
Of course, if you're only buying foreign food products (not saying you are) the prices of those things can fluctuate by 50% in a given year. |
Yes, yes, yes the foreign boogieman. The stock market goes down--foreign manipulation. Prices goes up--imported raw goods, etc, are to blame. Food pirces up--it's foreign food, not Korean.
Incidents such as the government screwing the pooch on FMD have nothing to do with high food prices.
As for the chicken, your reasoning is weak. Not in high demand? Chicken?
Businesses make non-market related decisions? GMarket's VP's wife wanted a new mink coat so he raised the prices on chicken?
Inflation is alive and well on the peninsula. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| methdxman wrote: |
| Vagabundo wrote: |
| Caffeinated wrote: |
Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Dec. 2010 - 49,900 won
Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Feb. 2011 - 63,500 won |
that's about 26-27% annual inflation.
Par for the course on Korean food.
in 2008, at the height of global troubles and fears of deflation, 2 canned products I liked to buy DOUBLED in price.
that's right. Doubled.
They should issue a T shirt to everyone in this country. I thought this was previously only applicable to the Japanese but Koreans fit right in.
The shirt should have a bullseye drawn on it, with the caption:
"charge me more, I'm Korean". |
Inflation is not 27% in Korea. Not even close. Just because the chicken on G-Mart went up by that much doesn't mean that chicken prices across the country went up by that much. Businesses a lot of times make independent, non-market related decisions all the time.
Also, if you buy things that aren't in high demand, price fluctuations tend to be a lot higher.
I agree that in Korea some things are outrageously expensive, but inflation is nowhere near 30%. It's less than 5%.
Of course, if you're only buying foreign food products (not saying you are) the prices of those things can fluctuate by 50% in a given year. |
Yes, yes, yes the foreign boogieman. The stock market goes down--foreign manipulation. Prices goes up--imported raw goods, etc, are to blame. Food pirces up--it's foreign food, not Korean.
Incidents such as the government screwing the pooch on FMD have nothing to do with high food prices.
As for the chicken, your reasoning is weak. Not in high demand? Chicken?
Businesses make non-market related decisions? GMarket's VP's wife wanted a new mink coat so he raised the prices on chicken?
Inflation is alive and well on the peninsula. |
I'm not saying that GMarket's VP's wife wanted a new mink coat.
Could have been a short-term thing with one of their suppliers, or a short-term shortage, or a mid to long-term market glitch. Could be anything really, but it doesn't mean that overall food prices are inflating by 25%. If you believe that, you're crazy. I'm guessing that the FMD thing made alternatives to cattle/sheep more attractive so the prices for chicken went up as well. Meat is scarcer now, period. In any case, this is just temporary inflation. Chicken prices are not going up 25% every 3 months, that's a ridiculous notion.
Everyone in every country thinks prices are rising because they notice that the cup of coffee across the street went from $2.00 to $2.50 overnight. Oh inflation's at 25%. If the real inflation rate in Korea were at 25% the country would be in a severe economic crisis, which is not the case. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| methdxman wrote: |
| Vagabundo wrote: |
| Caffeinated wrote: |
Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Dec. 2010 - 49,900 won
Price of 10 kg of chicken breast on Gmarket in Feb. 2011 - 63,500 won |
that's about 26-27% annual inflation.
Par for the course on Korean food.
in 2008, at the height of global troubles and fears of deflation, 2 canned products I liked to buy DOUBLED in price.
that's right. Doubled.
They should issue a T shirt to everyone in this country. I thought this was previously only applicable to the Japanese but Koreans fit right in.
The shirt should have a bullseye drawn on it, with the caption:
"charge me more, I'm Korean". |
Inflation is not 27% in Korea. Not even close. Just because the chicken on G-Mart went up by that much doesn't mean that chicken prices across the country went up by that much. Businesses a lot of times make independent, non-market related decisions all the time.
Also, if you buy things that aren't in high demand, price fluctuations tend to be a lot higher.
I agree that in Korea some things are outrageously expensive, but inflation is nowhere near 30%. It's less than 5%.
Of course, if you're only buying foreign food products (not saying you are) the prices of those things can fluctuate by 50% in a given year. |
Yes, yes, yes the foreign boogieman. The stock market goes down--foreign manipulation. Prices goes up--imported raw goods, etc, are to blame. Food pirces up--it's foreign food, not Korean.
Incidents such as the government screwing the pooch on FMD have nothing to do with high food prices.
As for the chicken, your reasoning is weak. Not in high demand? Chicken?
Businesses make non-market related decisions? GMarket's VP's wife wanted a new mink coat so he raised the prices on chicken?
Inflation is alive and well on the peninsula. |
I'm not saying that GMarket's VP's wife wanted a new mink coat.
Could have been a short-term thing with one of their suppliers, or a short-term shortage, or a mid to long-term market glitch. Could be anything really, but it doesn't mean that overall food prices are inflating by 25%. If you believe that, you're crazy. I'm guessing that the FMD thing made alternatives to cattle/sheep more attractive so the prices for chicken went up as well. Meat is scarcer now, period. In any case, this is just temporary inflation. Chicken prices are not going up 25% every 3 months, that's a ridiculous notion.
Everyone in every country thinks prices are rising because they notice that the cup of coffee across the street went from $2.00 to $2.50 overnight. Oh inflation's at 25%. If the real inflation rate in Korea were at 25% the country would be in a severe economic crisis, which is not the case. |
That you are.
You're the one who put up the strawman of 25% inflation. Just because it's not 25% doesn't mean that inflation isn't happening and isn't increasing.
Why do you state inflation is temporary? We've just had a global recession. Hard to see prices going down as economies improve and people start consuming more. Plus oil prices are going up and that was happening before the ME blow-ups.
Don't forget that the undervalued won as a component of inflation in SK. That's not changing as long as Lee is president. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't we learn basic statistical analysis in like, Middle School?
Chicken Breast goes up 25% in one quarter so that means the rate of inflation of all goods is 25%? And its absolutely due to price gouging?
I keep hearing how great American universities are and how they promote "critical thinking" and then I read posts like these. And people wonder why I'm an apologist....
Global food prices have been rising EVERYWHERE. More mouths to feed and more people with the means to eat more. This has been forecasted for decades, it should come as no surprise. |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: |
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I didn't mean to suggest inflation (even food) was that high in Korea.
but it's quite high. I'd say double digits. (for many foods)
Easily several multiples of any official govt statistic.
I'm also aware current spikes in prices go hand in hand with the outbreak of foot and mouth disease in Korea and massive culling of pigs (and cows) and potentially chickens.
but in Korea there's always SOMETHING.
drought.
flood.
"bad weather"
"high" oil prices (they used this in 2008 when crude went from 140 to 30)
disease
and of course under LMB, the severe intervention to keep the won the crappiest currency in the region./world (by a substantial margin) which massively pumps money into the overall money supply.
add to this the innate Korean belief that quality correlates to price and you have the classic brothers to the Japanese that should be forced to wear bullseye T shirts with the caption - charge me more, I"m Korean.
(if I were to borrow a theme from Freakanomics, I could prove that Japanese and Koreans are massively overcharged by the working girls of SE Asia, for e.g. 
the (in) famous thai phrase comes to mind.. the three 3's (with Japanese and Koreans)
three inches, three minutes, 3000 baht. |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I keep hearing how great American universities are and how they promote "critical thinking" and then I read posts like these. And people wonder why I'm an apologist....
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You're an apologist because you discard facts regularly to support your own deductive logic that has long ago decided your birth country is all the way, right or wrong. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
I keep hearing how great American universities are and how they promote "critical thinking" and then I read posts like these. And people wonder why I'm an apologist....
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You're an apologist because you discard facts regularly to support your own deductive logic that has long ago decided your birth country is all the way, right or wrong. |
True. Like Urbanmyth, Homer, et al, Steelrails has become agenda-driven. That agenda being to oppose those detracting Koreans and/or Korean culture on eslcafe.com. And that's it. Just oppose people who say anything negative about Korea. No real evaluation is happening. Just a pavlovian response to any negative comment about Korea. |
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