Korean Job Discussion Forums

[darkcity]

Googling this doesn't help since "that" and "what" are such common words. However, I think I've managed to think it through, but I wanted to check here in case I've missed anything.

The question is, when to use "that" and "what" (as relative pronouns)

1) I got the dog that I wanted.

2) I got what I wanted.

As far as I can tell, "what" as a relative pronoun is when following a verb, and "that" follows a noun.

This is mostly clear and seems to work in all the examples I can think of.

But it gets confusing when the verb is "said"

1) He said what he wanted to.

2) He said that he wanted to.

In the first example, "what" is the relative pronoun following the verb; same as the above example.

In the second example, "that" is NOT functioning as a relative pronoun but as a conjunction and subordinator, used to summarize something that was said.

Am I right? Did I miss anything?

[Skyblue]

You've got it.

[daskalos]

Perfect. Further, in common conversation, you could even drop "that" in your first example and be "correct."

That is, "I got the dog I wanted."

You can't, however, drop the "what" in your second sentence. I got I wanted? No.

[alljokingaside]

Hate to bust the party, but not always.
eg "I gave John [what he wanted]." (ie a red velvet cake)

If I'm correct (and if I'm not...well, I hail from CPS, one of the US's finest! educational areas, so suck it), the "what," here, forms part of the noun clause, the indirect object

whereas "that," as in "I told John THAT he would get fat", signifies the preceding with its wish-washy, transitive verb as the dependent clause,

Essentially, anything [in the brackets] acts as a variable, whereas anything following CAPITALIZED (ie "that) is pretty much fixed

For more fun, "I told John THAT [what he wanted] was not only illegal, but entirely time-consuming in it acquisition."

And even more fun, "I told John THAT [what he wanted(, the dead babies,)] would stink up the house"

Again, city school.
===
And for
1) He said what he wanted to.

2) He said that he wanted to.
=
1) He said [what he wanted to] (eg yes; that he was eating grapes today; that Korean vocational high school students are GR-R-REAT!; etc etc)

2) He said (what did he say?) THAT he wanted to....be done with grammar once and for all.

Some of the terms here might not be spot on (again CPS; I'm just happy I made it out in one piece), but hope it helps.

[yawarakaijin]

Seems to me that what the above poster said is correct. All depends if you are creating a noun or adjective clause and if so, you then need to use the correct marker. Expanding on that, the noun and adjective clauses have different rules on what you can and can't drop when creating a reduced noun or adjective clause.

[The Cosmic Hum]

[Thiuda]

[The Cosmic Hum]