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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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If anyone in the world is a "James Bond Supervillain" I think Ghaddafi would come the closest.
Quirky Clothes? Check.
Female Bodyguards? Check.
Shades? Check.
Weird Car? Check.
Rambling Incoherent Rants? Check.
Out of the 60s-70s? Check.
Actually, aside from the whole brutal repression thing, it would be pretty cool to be ol' Moammar.
Before this is over he'll probably threaten to blow up the moon or something. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I hope some good comes from what the people there have had to go through. Really, it's gotta be bad on an order most (all?) of us will never (hopefully) ever have to experience.
I'll hand it to Khaddafi that he can still take a stage (pass the bowl, dude), but beyond that he's a open sore on the ass of humanity. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Christopher Hitchens bashes Obama's dithering over Libya
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| By the time of Obama's empty speech, even the notoriously lenient Arab League had suspended Libya's participation, and several of Qaddafi's senior diplomatic envoys had bravely defected. One of them, based in New York, had warned of the use of warplanes against civilians and called for a "no-fly zone." Others have pointed out the planes that are bringing fresh mercenaries to Qaddafi's side. In the Mediterranean, the United States maintains its Sixth Fleet, which could ground Qaddafi's air force without breaking a sweat. But wait! We have not yet heard from the Swiss admiralty, without whose input it would surely be imprudent to proceed. |
I do have to say I'm puzzled over the Obama's administration muted response to the events in Libya. It is pretty sad. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: |
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The Egyptians need friendly guidance and advice. They can lapse into anti-imperialist resentment, like China did, or they can emulate developed world institutions, like the Indians did.
Meddle is just a perjorative for taking responsibility. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Albright is in NO position to talk about human rights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8
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| The Egyptians need friendly guidance and advice. |
Friendly? You think Albright is friendly to them?
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They can lapse into anti-imperialist resentment, like China did, or they can emulate developed world institutions, like the Indians did.
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Developed world institutions in India? What? This is the either/or? Kuros.
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| Meddle is just a perjorative for taking responsibility. |
No, it is a pejorative for murderous thugs like Albright who will oversee 500k dead Arab kids so that Israel can be free to massacre people in Gaza without threat of retaliation. Albright doesn't want human rights and democracy and freedom. She wants Egypt fractured and confused so that it does not confront Israel. The language of rights and democracy is a strategy. Particularistic goals described in universalistic language. Tell me you understand this. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| The language of rights and democracy is a strategy. Particularistic goals described in universalistic language. Tell me you understand this. |
Everyone thinks nuclear proliferation is bad (as long as WE already have nuclear weapons).
Everyone has the right to democracy and self-determination (unless a dictator would be more willing to give us what we want).
Importantly though, I don't mean to imply that the U.S. is the only country obsessed with national interests. Other countries in the region will scramble for influence in the elections to come, and I do believe U.S./western influence will be better for Egypt in the long run (particularly with regard to freedom of information). |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| I do believe U.S./western influence will be better for Egypt in the long run (particularly with regard to freedom of information). |
Why? I am from the West and I'm not so sure we're a model. I'd rather we focus on fixing us. We have a hell of a lot to fix. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Albright is in NO position to talk about human rights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8
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| The Egyptians need friendly guidance and advice. |
Friendly? You think Albright is friendly to them?
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They can lapse into anti-imperialist resentment, like China did, or they can emulate developed world institutions, like the Indians did.
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Developed world institutions in India? What? This is the either/or? Kuros.
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| Meddle is just a perjorative for taking responsibility. |
No, it is a pejorative for murderous thugs like Albright who will oversee 500k dead Arab kids so that Israel can be free to massacre people in Gaza without threat of retaliation. Albright doesn't want human rights and democracy and freedom. She wants Egypt fractured and confused so that it does not confront Israel. The language of rights and democracy is a strategy. Particularistic goals described in universalistic language. Tell me you understand this. |
I care about representative democracy more than Albright's alleged transgressions. If the Egyptian military is not pressured by the West to go through with its promised institutional reforms, then reforms may not materialize, and those 300 protesters will have died for naught. And yes, the West will be pressuring the Egyptian military on behalf of an outspoken minority, I have no problem with this, just as I have no problem with French support of an outspoken minority in America in the late 18th century. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I care about representative democracy |
How did democracy is Algeria, Palestine and Iraq turn out? No. That isn't the goal.
You may care about representative democracy (and I don't think you much do anyways - you're too smart to believe a society should have the future decided by a popularity contest). The government doesn't care about representative democracy. That is why it gave billions to the tyrant. The meddling will not be done with the intention of creating a democracy. The only goal will be keeping the Israeli's free of violent opposition. There is no number of dead Arabs that will be too many. Literally. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
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| I care about representative democracy |
How did democracy is Algeria, Palestine and Iraq turn out? No. That isn't the goal.
You may care about representative democracy (and I don't think you much do anyways - you're too smart to believe a society should have the future decided by a popularity contest). The government doesn't care about representative democracy. That is why it gave billions to the tyrant. The meddling will not be done with the intention of creating a democracy. The only goal will be keeping the Israeli's free of violent opposition. There is no number of dead Arabs that will be too many. Literally. |
Representative democracy is the only known path to the rule of law. The popular aspect is problematic, but is the only way to individualism, freedom, and liberty. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Representative democracy is the only known path to the rule of law. The popular aspect is problematic, but is the only way to individualism, freedom, and liberty. |
I don't mean to mince words with you here... but other forms of government have certainly been able to enforce laws. If you mean equal protection under those laws, that hasn't been the case in the U.S. for most of its history (and continues to not be, according to many in the LGBT community).
Using the name "Hitler" in any context is a clich� these days, but we all know representative democracy doesn't always lead to freedom and liberty either. I'm not saying I've invented a better form of government, but we should be realistic about the track record of representative democracies.
Freedom of the information (press, speech, assembly, etc) on the other hand, will give them a much better capability to make any further governmental changes that may be necessary in the future. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| murderous thugs like Albright who will oversee 500k dead Arab kids so that Israel can be free to massacre people in Gaza without threat of retaliation. |
Mises you tend to overlook the obvious fact that Israelis actually want peace.
Thats why they have given up all kinds of land and territory over the years and made all kinds of concessions.
Its the arabs themselves that don't want peace. they simply want to keep shifting the goalposts because their ultimate aim is to eliminate Israel.
Although how you have managed to somehow blame Israel for the unrest in libya.. is beyond me. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Coming soon to Amsterdam:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360799/Sex-brothels-REAL-tyranny-threatening-Arab-world.html
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A few hundred metres from the main mosque in the heart of Tunis�s old quarter lies Abdallah Guech Street, a red-light district which has thrived since the 19th century. Here, the Ottomans legalised and regulated prostitution � as they had in much of the rest of the Muslim world.
[...]
Or at least they did until last month�s Jasmine Revolution. But last week, faster than you could scream �Allahu Akbar�, hundreds of Islamists raided Abdallah Guech Street armed with Molotov cocktails and knives, torching the brothels, yelling insults at the prostitutes and declaring that Tunisia was now an Islamist state. |
These people don't want democracy. They want totalitarianism. And some of them know it. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
Representative democracy is the only known path to the rule of law. The popular aspect is problematic, but is the only way to individualism, freedom, and liberty. |
I don't mean to mince words with you here... but other forms of government have certainly been able to enforce laws. If you mean equal protection under those laws, that hasn't been the case in the U.S. for most of its history (and continues to not be, according to many in the LGBT community).
Using the name "Hitler" in any context is a clich� these days, but we all know representative democracy doesn't always lead to freedom and liberty either. I'm not saying I've invented a better form of government, but we should be realistic about the track record of representative democracies.
Freedom of the information (press, speech, assembly, etc) on the other hand, will give them a much better capability to make any further governmental changes that may be necessary in the future. |
Rule of law and enforcement of laws are not equivalent expressions. |
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