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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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There most definitely is though- a right way and wrong way to many aspects and methods of teaching.
Unless you are an academic nihilist who believes that ....... obstructing information on the board, writing too small so none of the students can see, talking to the floor, mixing different levels in the same class, lecturing the students most of the time with minimal participation on their part..etc....are all just a matter of subjective relative judgement and are neither right nor wrong.
If thats your view then you may as well let the students watch cartoons every lesson. |
This is true, People who haven't taken the CELTA often think there's some sinister brainwashing thing going on but the few people who fail it generally do so due to the type of things Junior mentions above, When I'm observing I look at the lesson aims and see if the teacher fulfills them. How they do so is up to them. Most of the 'errors' are common sense but generally people still need the basics pointed out. The other type who fails is the guy who's been lecturing at people for ten years and won't take on any constructive criticism at all about possible other methodology.
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| Giving a mediocre lesson to a class of adults is hardly a life or death situation. Sure you may lose a few students if it's consistent, but that's where the market is capable of deciding. |
It is a life or death situation in business terms. In the last adult institute I worked in around 90% of students who requested a refund did so after the first lesson. All the teachers there were trained and experienced but most still had two or three refunds. Badly prepared tecahers could lose 5 students out of a class of 14 immediately. In that particular institute employing people with no qualifications or experience would have resulted in that figure or more being multiplied by every class and they would have been leaking serious money.
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The best program I've seen for PS teaching is ICELT, which trains Korean public school teachers while they are teaching.
Interesting. What does that entail? I had imagined the korean certificate to be somewhat full of impractical confucian approaches- rote learning, heirarchical structures. that sort of thing. |
It's actually a Cambridge exam some offices of education pay their best teachers to do. I don't work for Cambridge but I do think their exams are pretty spot on |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| silkhighway wrote: |
| If there are true value in these courses, then employers should provide them or at least offer serious incentive to take them. |
But that is just typical of the industry: it would be taking english education too seriously  . Korea (and others) have typically underestimated the value of proper English teaching, and consistently refused to raise standards- even when they could easily have afforded to do so.
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| the CELTA is not very relevant to teaching young learners in a hogwan or public school situation, although I think it's still useful. |
I found it gives a very good basic methodology, philosophy and approach, no matter what agegroup.
I've seen many FT's in Korea making basic errors that would have been eliminated by the CELTA.
| Quote: |
| The best program I've seen for PS teaching is ICELT, which trains Korean public school teachers while they are teaching. |
Interesting. What does that entail? I had imagined the korean certificate to be somewhat full of impractical confucian approaches- rote learning, heirarchical structures. that sort of thing. |
I have a CELTA and have never regretted spending money and time on something that adds a new perspective on English language teaching. Korea is the only country I've taught in where my degrees and CELTA cert can not be used to teach in the kinds of jobs such as corporate training etc that I worked in elsewhere.
I have found in Korea that teaching at a job you really want to and for which you are qualified by your jobs outside Korea is more about being in the right place (location), knowing people who can pass on information of non advertised jobs, and connections in which case you can bypass being lost as just another applicant amidst the paper mountain.
The E-2 visa is geared to limiting what we can do and those of us who have cvs with far more demanding employment experience on them in other countries find it more difficult here than elsewhere to get jobs such as working at universities, teaching at companies etc etc. This is why I will not be working in Korea after May this year.
I have never worked in Seoul and being outside of Seoul will limit you in many ways. I have never got a job in Korea through connections because I have worked in places where there are none for the E-2 teacher, only the teacher married to a Korean. A bigger problem is that jobs I and others would have been given in other countries are going to those on the F and D visas.
As for older people teaching English in Asia, many of them made it their career before unemployed North Americans flooded the market. No offence to the young uns because I understand why they are coming and good for them to get off their duffs and try teaching although too many of them come unprepared.
In Japan I used to hear people putting down older teachers not married to J nationals who weren't running their own schools after 8 years or more in Japan. Those comments came from young people who were only larking around for a few years in Japan or married foreigners who instantly had access to visas and opportunities that non married foreigners don't have. The same applies in Korea but it's even harder to do those things because of the restrictions of E-2 visas. |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| clewis wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
Why anyone who is over 40 would want to go into teaching is beyond me. Teaching is quickly becoming a turnstile job. Long gone are any remnants that it was a career to teach. Working at a university is completely different story. Most people who make career changes in their 40's look for careers that are not so energy demanding as is teaching where you are on your feet all day. Most people who stay teaching today beyond their 40's are doing so to max out the level of their final longevity pay not because they love teaching.
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Well it isn't that complicated. Some of us in our 40's (I am 40 on the dot) have already done a career and raised a family and now want to see the world and immerse themselves in another culture and have enough income to continue to pay off bills that you seem to accumulate by 40. 
Teaching can be an ideal job in this circumstance if you are social person and have learned over the years to jump in with both feet and hit the ground running which is what changing careers at this point in your life is doing.
I am leaving a job at Microsoft to make this complete and total change and have zero regrets. I will post back here in a year to say if I still have those zero regrets |
I look forward to reading that post a year later after you have undergone a life without your plush microsoft position and you have completed your year of your quasi-peace corps like sojourn. Keep me posted! |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
| clewis wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
Why anyone who is over 40 would want to go into teaching is beyond me. Teaching is quickly becoming a turnstile job. Long gone are any remnants that it was a career to teach. Working at a university is completely different story. Most people who make career changes in their 40's look for careers that are not so energy demanding as is teaching where you are on your feet all day. Most people who stay teaching today beyond their 40's are doing so to max out the level of their final longevity pay not because they love teaching.
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Well it isn't that complicated. Some of us in our 40's (I am 40 on the dot) have already done a career and raised a family and now want to see the world and immerse themselves in another culture and have enough income to continue to pay off bills that you seem to accumulate by 40.
Teaching can be an ideal job in this circumstance if you are social person and have learned over the years to jump in with both feet and hit the ground running which is what changing careers at this point in your life is doing.
I am leaving a job at Microsoft to make this complete and total change and have zero regrets. I will post back here in a year to say if I still have those zero regrets |
I look forward to reading that post a year later after you have undergone a life without your plush microsoft position and you have completed your year of your quasi-peace corps like sojourn. Keep me posted! |
he'll be fine, provided he doesn't have those bills the young teachers here seem to accumulate , and even without them, he'll make enough to easily get by and even enjoy life a bit in Korea so long as he stays out of room salons.
you're also forgetting this man surely as some real life technical skills and relevant work experience, so should he change his mind once again in several years, I suspect his job search will be vastly shorter and more profitable than that of a Bachelor of Arts with Liberal Arts degree out of State U, with 3 years of ESL teaching experience in Korea.
(might get you a job as a Walmart greeter in a place with a large Korean population. You can greet them with annyong haseyo! ) |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: |
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[quote="olsanairbase"]
| ttompatz wrote: |
se
And the below is not deductive reasoning. Sorry Aristotle.
| Vagabundo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm in my 30's, but will start getting into my late 30's in a couple of more years. |
this kind of deductive reasoning shouldn't be wasted on a career in ESL.
Ever thought of a more challenging career path?  |
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from Wiki
| Quote: |
| Deductive arguments are attempts to show that a conclusion necessarily follows from a set of premises or hypotheses. A deductive argument is valid if the conclusion does follow necessarily from the premises, i.e., if the conclusion must be true provided that the premises are true. |
I'm in my 30's, but will start getting into my late 30's in a couple of more years..
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clewis
Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Location: Anyang, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Vagabundo wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
| clewis wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
Why anyone who is over 40 would want to go into teaching is beyond me. Teaching is quickly becoming a turnstile job. Long gone are any remnants that it was a career to teach. Working at a university is completely different story. Most people who make career changes in their 40's look for careers that are not so energy demanding as is teaching where you are on your feet all day. Most people who stay teaching today beyond their 40's are doing so to max out the level of their final longevity pay not because they love teaching.
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Well it isn't that complicated. Some of us in our 40's (I am 40 on the dot) have already done a career and raised a family and now want to see the world and immerse themselves in another culture and have enough income to continue to pay off bills that you seem to accumulate by 40.
Teaching can be an ideal job in this circumstance if you are social person and have learned over the years to jump in with both feet and hit the ground running which is what changing careers at this point in your life is doing.
I am leaving a job at Microsoft to make this complete and total change and have zero regrets. I will post back here in a year to say if I still have those zero regrets |
I look forward to reading that post a year later after you have undergone a life without your plush microsoft position and you have completed your year of your quasi-peace corps like sojourn. Keep me posted! |
he'll be fine, provided he doesn't have those bills the young teachers here seem to accumulate , and even without them, he'll make enough to easily get by and even enjoy life a bit in Korea so long as he stays out of room salons.
you're also forgetting this man surely as some real life technical skills and relevant work experience, so should he change his mind once again in several years, I suspect his job search will be vastly shorter and more profitable than that of a Bachelor of Arts with Liberal Arts degree out of State U, with 3 years of ESL teaching experience in Korea.
(might get you a job as a Walmart greeter in a place with a large Korean population. You can greet them with annyong haseyo! ) |
I am a she and yes I do have experience and a masters degree so if I decide to jump back into the American workforce in a few years it hopefully won't be as a Walmart greeter! |
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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| clewis wrote: |
| Vagabundo wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
| clewis wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
Why anyone who is over 40 would want to go into teaching is beyond me. Teaching is quickly becoming a turnstile job. Long gone are any remnants that it was a career to teach. Working at a university is completely different story. Most people who make career changes in their 40's look for careers that are not so energy demanding as is teaching where you are on your feet all day. Most people who stay teaching today beyond their 40's are doing so to max out the level of their final longevity pay not because they love teaching.
|
Well it isn't that complicated. Some of us in our 40's (I am 40 on the dot) have already done a career and raised a family and now want to see the world and immerse themselves in another culture and have enough income to continue to pay off bills that you seem to accumulate by 40.
Teaching can be an ideal job in this circumstance if you are social person and have learned over the years to jump in with both feet and hit the ground running which is what changing careers at this point in your life is doing.
I am leaving a job at Microsoft to make this complete and total change and have zero regrets. I will post back here in a year to say if I still have those zero regrets |
I look forward to reading that post a year later after you have undergone a life without your plush microsoft position and you have completed your year of your quasi-peace corps like sojourn. Keep me posted! |
he'll be fine, provided he doesn't have those bills the young teachers here seem to accumulate , and even without them, he'll make enough to easily get by and even enjoy life a bit in Korea so long as he stays out of room salons.
you're also forgetting this man surely as some real life technical skills and relevant work experience, so should he change his mind once again in several years, I suspect his job search will be vastly shorter and more profitable than that of a Bachelor of Arts with Liberal Arts degree out of State U, with 3 years of ESL teaching experience in Korea.
(might get you a job as a Walmart greeter in a place with a large Korean population. You can greet them with annyong haseyo! ) |
I am a she and yes I do have experience and a masters degree so if I decide to jump back into the American workforce in a few years it hopefully won't be as a Walmart greeter! |
I sincerely hope you're correct!
(and hope that Master's is in something "useful",) |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Vagabundo"]
| olsanairbase wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
se
And the below is not deductive reasoning. Sorry Aristotle.
| Vagabundo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm in my 30's, but will start getting into my late 30's in a couple of more years. |
this kind of deductive reasoning shouldn't be wasted on a career in ESL.
Ever thought of a more challenging career path? |
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from Wiki
| Quote: |
| Deductive arguments are attempts to show that a conclusion necessarily follows from a set of premises or hypotheses. A deductive argument is valid if the conclusion does follow necessarily from the premises, i.e., if the conclusion must be true provided that the premises are true. |
I'm in my 30's, but will start getting into my late 30's in a couple of more years..
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Mere statements of fact don't involve reasoning. Analysis of a fact can involve reasoning. Here, the poster is simply acknowledging they will be in in their late 30's in a couple of years from now. This statement is nothing more than a fact.
| calicoe wrote: |
| olsanairbase wrote: |
Why anyone who is over 40 would want to go into teaching is beyond me. Teaching is quickly becoming a turnstile job. Long gone are any remnants that it was a career to teach.
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Most people over 40 have had other jobs, other careers and a lifetime of experience behind them. But, some are still in really good shape, and have plenty of energy, but may be burnt out on their previous professions. Also, this "turnstile" job situation affects just about every profession these days, as many are becoming economic refugees in the final massive shift to a flexible labor economy. So, yes, the one thing I agree with is that it most probably is "beyond" your comprehension. |
I think you are confused between the use of figurative and literal meanings. My reflection was on why anyone would want to go into teaching when the conditions and benefits that teachers have maintained for decades are being undermined and undercut. "Turnstile" is in reference to the fact that most schools would rather rotate through and hire younger inexperienced teachers over and over again, than invest in 1 solitary teacher over that same period of time. Again, this analogy wasn't in reference to teaching in Korea but moreover to the state of the profession in general on a global scale. |
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