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BriTunes
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Wait. This isn't possible, because Koreans love their children more than foreigners love their children . These are all made up lies. There IS no "Ms. Kim." |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| nukeday wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| nukeday wrote: |
It is funny, however, that "blood ties" are so important when refusing to adopt children, but do allow (some) people to abandon their children. Like I said, one-way street. |
It's not that blood ties are a one-way street, it's that supreme selfishness can triumph over any cultural value. Of course the Koreans who actually value blood ties aren't abandoning their children. Instead they work themselves to the bone to try to give them the best life (as they perceive it) that they can, and of course they're reticent to take on another enormous burden by providing that for a child that isn't theirs. |
Yet adoptive parents from other cultures do just that, unless you (or maybe not you, but they) truly think Koreans work harder for their (wanted) children than other nationalities. |
I doubt too many adoptive Western parents are working 60 hours a week in order to pay for supplementary education for their adopted children. I think Koreans work themselves (and their children) too hard, but there's no question that they work atypically hard in hopes of bettering their children's lives. |
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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
I doubt too many adoptive Western parents are working 60 hours a week in order to pay for supplementary education for their adopted children. I think Koreans work themselves (and their children) too hard, but there's no question that they work atypically hard in hopes of bettering their children's lives. |
So is this a Korea vs West issue or adopted children vs blood children issue? A bit of both I'm sure, but it's hard to measure from what you're saying. Do you think parents with adopted children in the West don't work as hard for their kids as those with their own? I mean, they work pretty damn hard just to get them to begin with. Check out stories of people adopting kids from Korea. Very complicated process. I am just picking your brain, though.
I'd say in the West there are a lot more families where both parents are working to provide for their families - as opposed to Korea's continuing tradition outside certain fields (like education) for the wife/mother to remain at home in a domestic role.
I'm also not necessarily sure the guys working 60 hour weeks in their office wouldn't be just as happy to not work the unpaid overtime - that's getting into the corporate culture, not necessarily heroic, sacrificial parenting. EVERYONE works 60 hour weeks here. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| nukeday wrote: |
| So is this a Korea vs West issue or adopted children vs blood children issue? A bit of both I'm sure, but it's hard to measure from what you're saying. |
Rather than saying it's both, I'm going to take it a step further and say the two "issues" you describe above are actually a single inseparable one. The different views of the parent/child relationship (and the responsibilities therein) in Korea vs. in the West inevitably determines how those societies view issues like adoption. The same trait which leads them to work ridiculously hard for their own children makes them reticent to take on others as a burden.
| nukeday wrote: |
| Do you think parents with adopted children in the West don't work as hard for their kids as those with their own? |
I'm not saying that. Rather, I'm saying that because they don't work as hard for their children in the first place (adopted or natural born), taking on another's child is less of a burden in the first place, and thus far easier to justify.
| nukeday wrote: |
| I'm also not necessarily sure the guys working 60 hour weeks in their office wouldn't be just as happy to not work the unpaid overtime - that's getting into the corporate culture, not necessarily heroic, sacrificial parenting. EVERYONE works 60 hour weeks here. |
As much as it's easy to just shrug off the Koreans as greedy work-a-holics, that attitude comes from somewhere, and I think their tendency to over-spend on education makes it clear their children are a big factor. I've known a some Korean men who worked hard in their youth, piled up reasonable amounts of money, and after realizing they were almost certainly never going to find a wife and have children, simply started taking it easier. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I find this topic interesting because I have two Korean cousins, by adoption. They are Korean in name and blood only though as neither one of them have much interest or knowledge of Korea. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Koreans moms/dads are nowhere near perfect but they sacrifice way more for their children's future.
What you see on TV in the west about couples worrying about their kids college education fund and all that junk is pure B.S. It's not what happens in most of the cases in places like the U.S.
Westerners always try to preach these ideals and values but don't follow through.
The fact is that in the west (especially in the U.S.) we have so many social problems because kids are neglected, abused (emotionally, physically, sexually), and generally not taken care of by their parents. The proof is in the pudding (crime rates, how far people live away from their parents, how many parents get shoved in retirement homes or not looked after at all, etc.)
Too many f'ing kids in the west who hate their parents, scream and yell at them. Too many depressed f'ing parents who neglect their kids, because their lives "suck". Hey, dumbass, you just had a kid, you live for your kid now, suck it up.
Korean parents tend to pressure their kids a lot to succeed at school and such, which often rears its ugly head when it's done in the west (I know plenty of mentally messed up Koreans in the U.S. from what their parents have done to them) but it's usually ok in Korea, because society places the same pressure on people.
Anyway, news media is too sensationalistic and whoever posted is too sensationalistic. This is a total non-story. People try to find too many heroes and villains in everything. So this means Korean women and society are evil? For the most part Korean parenting produces good, smart, stand-up citizens.
The west has a lot to learn from the east in terms of parenting. Tons to learn. All Americans do is preach about shit, yet they probably have one uncle in their family who has molested someone else in their family. It's a weird f'ing paradox.
It's GOOD that these women are disowning their children. It seems horrible on the surface, but you don't want these selfish c**** raising any children anyway. They're being realistic and honest with themselves. We need more people like this in the west.
IF YOU GET PREGNANT AND DONT WANT CHILDREN DON'T RAISE THEM! |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| nukeday wrote: |
One person worked on 10 cases. Is she the only caseworker who deals with Koreans? I guess we could stretch our imaginations to accept that, but the article is unclear on that matter. |
Case workers often have a caseload of 30-40 cases. I think it's a fair assumption to make that she is handling all the Korean ones as the authors would have strong motivation to bolster their argument if they could show the problem is more widespread than 10 cases.
You keep trying though.  |
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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| nukeday wrote: |
One person worked on 10 cases. Is she the only caseworker who deals with Koreans? I guess we could stretch our imaginations to accept that, but the article is unclear on that matter. |
Case workers often have a caseload of 30-40 cases. I think it's a fair assumption to make that she is handling all the Korean ones as the authors would have strong motivation to bolster their argument if they could show the problem is more widespread than 10 cases.
You keep trying though. |
Pure speculation. Facts or Dave's is not where logic comes to die.
I can make another fair (I'd call yours wild) assumption: Judging from the other content on that website (ethnic news), they'd probably wish to downplay a story like this rather than blow it out of proportion. Koreans, even in America, don't like negative press.
If you literally think only 10 ethnic Korean children went up for adoption in Los Angeles, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
Unfortunately, the only numbers I could find are related to international Korean adoptees.
"The proportion of children leaving Korea for adoption amounted to about 1% of its live births for several years during the 1980s (Kane, 1993); currently, even with a large drop in the Korean birth rate to below 1.2 children per woman and an increasingly wealthy economy, about 0.5% (1 in 200) of Korean children are still sent to other countries every year."
0.5%, and that's only talking about international adoptions - not kids adopted in Korea or who simply never get adopted and stay in Korea.
There are 300,000 Korean-Americans (now, I am assuming you want to include Korean-Americans since you mentioned LA being the 2nd largest Korean community in the world) in Los Angeles, and I don't know if that number includes Korean citizens. 10 kids up for adoption is less than .005% of that population. Unless abortion is that much easier in America than in Korea (we all know that is not true), again, I got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
Last edited by nukeday on Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| nukeday wrote: |
I can make another fair (I'd call yours wild) assumption: Judging from the other content on that website (ethnic news), they'd probably wish to downplay a story like this rather than blow it out of proportion. Koreans, even in America, don't like negative press. |
So by your reasoning, they decided to write a negative story about Koreans, yet simultaneously downplayed the negatives because they didn't want to have negative press about Koreans?
Dave's logic at its finest. |
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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| nukeday wrote: |
I can make another fair (I'd call yours wild) assumption: Judging from the other content on that website (ethnic news), they'd probably wish to downplay a story like this rather than blow it out of proportion. Koreans, even in America, don't like negative press. |
So by your reasoning, they decided to write a negative story about Koreans, yet simultaneously downplayed the negatives because they didn't want to have negative press about Koreans?
Dave's logic at its finest. |
Address the rest of my post or you're just being a troll.
Ever heard of whitewashing???? http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whitewash
You should have, because you're trying a little too hard to do it now. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| nukeday wrote: |
Address the rest of my post or you're just being a troll. |
Just how old are you? 11? 12? What next? Double dog dare me?
Frankly responding to you would be beneath me. You've proven yourself to be illogical. I might as well go bicker with the crazy guy wearing sandwich board signs on the street corner. It would accomplish about as much. |
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West Coast Tatterdemalion
Joined: 31 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| You smoked him, Nukeday. Drawn and quartered. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| West Coast Tatterdemalion wrote: |
| You smoked him, Nukeday. Drawn and quartered. |
I see you're still stalking me because I showed you up in our last argument. Pretty pathetic. It's time to move on man. |
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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| West Coast Tatterdemalion wrote: |
| You smoked him, Nukeday. Drawn and quartered. |
I see you're still stalking me because I showed you up in our last argument. Pretty pathetic. It's time to move on man. |
Adding "lol" emoticons and insults doesn't make you more logical or improve your reading comprehension.
All of the one line witticisms you're spouting off don't lend to your credibility much either.
But it does make you look like a typical forum user. asiafinest has trained you well!
- just so you know we're keeping it lighthearted here. |
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Koreadays
Joined: 20 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am Post subject: |
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so the girls are afraid of their parents.. they are selfish etc....
so where is this great korean guy she met who git her pregnant?
oh let me guess, another loser bludging off his parents living in LA and is afraid to tell Appa he got a girl pregnant... |
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