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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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 Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:32 am Post subject: |
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It is strange.
Why are there not more Asian players getting to the level of competing against the best?
As well as the low number of Korean and Japanese blokes mentioned there is not even one semi decent Indonesian or Thai player in world football (despite the popularitly of football in those countries). China has a couple of average premier league types but none have the quality of the stars coming from Africa. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Donghae wrote: |
| But some of those 6 are NOT "playing against the best players in the world week in, week out" as you seem to be under the impression. Inamoto, for example, had a brief run in Fulham's team earlier this season but recently hasn't been able to get a look in, as was the case for large parts of last season, and the entire season before at Arsenal. As things stand at the moment he's on his way back to Gamba Osaka as Fulham don't seem to want to pay the relatively small fee for an international player that Gamba want. Yanagisawa is recognised even by many in Japan as er, a marketing asset for Sampdoria, shall we say. Lots of people here think he's crap. Even Nakata, easily the best Japanese player, has had to move around so much in Italy because he can't get regular 1st team football. |
I might agree with your comments about Inamoto's time with Arsenal, but I would o as far to suggest that he is a squad rotation player. Indeed, most players are in this era of big squads. Sampdoria have already argued that Yanagisawa is not a marketing tool. Indeed, they recently refused to release him for a tournament in Japan arguing "he's an important player." The Reggina player (don't know the name) is certainly a regular first team player, while Nakata only moved on loan to Bologna because of Parma's huge financial problems. He is playing reguarly for Bologna, and getting praise for his performances. Since moving to Italy he as definately proved his worth. Indeed, his huge transfer fee from Roma to Parma proved he's worth something on the pitch. I agree that doesn't constitute a squad, but I was just refering to the first eleven.
I'm a Derby County fan  We are having a very difficult time at the moment! Where are you from, and who do you follow? |
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Donghae
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:08 am Post subject: |
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Bolton and Portsmouth both denied their Japanese players were bought to sell shirts too and were "important" squad players. Yeah, right. Like Yanagisawa, not on the pitch very much. I certainly agree that Nakata has proved himself in Italy but he HAS struggled to consistently hold down a 1st team place for much of his time there, although less so of late. Personally, I think that on a few occasions this has been down to bad luck rather than lack of ability. The Reggiana player you're thinking of is Shunsuke Nakamura, BTW.
I'm from Birmingham and my team is Birmingham City. Once lived in Derby & worked in Burton though. (For a variety of reasons I've also spent a fair bit of time watching Nottingham Forest so have a bit of a soft spot for them - over the years they've spent remarkably little time in the same division as Blues.) I sympathise with Derby's plight - we've been there, T-shirt 'n' all. 10 years ago I could never have imagined we'd be the top team in the Midlands and on the verge of possible qualification for what used to be the European Cup  Derby will be back, I'm sure. |
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Holyjoe
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Away for a cuppa
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| 10 years ago I could never have imagined we'd be the top team in the Midlands and on the verge of possible qualification for what used to be the European Cup |
Bloody hell... I never really followed English fitba too much back home but I used to have a reasonable idea of what was going on in the Premiership - your post just sent me on a wee trip to SportingLife to check it out (not that I didn't believe you..  ).
I hope whatever happens that you guys don't end up in the same unfortunate situation as Ipswich after their fantastic season three years ago. |
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gomurr
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| I agreed that the Fifa rankings are a joke. The competition in Asia isn't all that great. Japan and Korea are powerhouses in Asia but probably wouldn't go far playing in the European, South American Zone. It's ironic that the best Asian team, Turkey, plays in the European zone. Same goes for israel (Although politics have alot to say on that one). Turkey would clean house in Asian Cup tournaments. |
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Zed
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Shakedown Street
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Donghae
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| gomurr wrote: |
| I agreed that the Fifa rankings are a joke. The competition in Asia isn't all that great. Japan and Korea are powerhouses in Asia but probably wouldn't go far playing in the European, South American Zone. It's ironic that the best Asian team, Turkey, plays in the European zone. Same goes for israel (Although politics have alot to say on that one). Turkey would clean house in Asian Cup tournaments. |
I agree that Korea and Japan perhaps wouldn't qualify every time, or even very often if they had to play in European groups to qualify, but the experience would surely only make them stronger in the long run. Or was Hiddink's approach to picking opponents to play wrong?
And definitely I'd sooner put money on Turkey to beat any team in Asia in a one-off two-legged tie than to lose to them, although I think there are some Asian teams (Korea, Japan, Iran for starters) against whom I'd make it a small bet on Turkey.
But the point is, IF Turkey had to play in Asian qualifiers all the time, (1) it wouldn't help the standard of their national team very much having to play so many games against very weak teams and (2) given that almost every game would be a potential banana skin, inevitably sooner or later they would get embarrassed by someone unexpected. Furthermore, if they'd always played in the Asian groups up to now and had therefore been denied competitive international games against top teams other than in tournaments, it's highly likely they wouldn't be as good as they are now. Isn't this the situation Korea, Japan and Iran are in? Yeah, there's not much can be done to alter it, but it's not their fault they're in that situation. |
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Donghae
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| Holyjoe wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 10 years ago I could never have imagined we'd be the top team in the Midlands and on the verge of possible qualification for what used to be the European Cup |
Bloody hell... I never really followed English fitba too much back home but I used to have a reasonable idea of what was going on in the Premiership - your post just sent me on a wee trip to SportingLife to check it out (not that I didn't believe you.. ).
I hope whatever happens that you guys don't end up in the same unfortunate situation as Ipswich after their fantastic season three years ago. |
Irony/sarcasm can be missed on a messageboard but I'll assume you meant that last bit & say cheers, mate.
I know plenty of people WOULD be happy to see us do an Ipswich. We're not a very fashionable club at all, and in many people's eyes, teams like us are allowed their little moments but should ultimately know their place. I believe it's similar thinking that explains a lot of the negativity from Europe and some westerners generally about Korea's progress - "who do they think are"etc, etc as if they have no right to be get excited and dream unrealistically when they do well.
We'll probably miss out on the Champions League 4th place, but will hopefully get into the UEFA. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| Donghae wrote: |
| I agree that Korea and Japan perhaps wouldn't qualify every time, or even very often if they had to play in European groups to qualify, but the experience would surely only make them stronger in the long run. Or was Hiddink's approach to picking opponents to play wrong? |
It might make them stronger, but the point is that other teams in Europe are getting stronger too. Even if Korea were compelled to qualify from Europe for twenty years, beyond an improvement in their national team, I still don't think they would be qualifying very often.
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believe it's similar thinking that explains a lot of the negativity from Europe and some westerners generally about Korea's progress - "who do they think are"etc, etc as if they have no right to be get excited and dream unrealistically when they do well.
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No, I think the negativity comes from Korea's heated nationalism. As far as football is concerned it is misguided. Koreans I speak too now believe that the world of football is forever stuck in July 2002. Anything before and after is an irrelevance, and I am sure that is the main reason some Westerners are trying to shake them out of this coma. As a passionate football follower since my playground days at junior school when I pretended to be Dean Saunders  , I think the increased interest in the game in Korea is a great thing. However, I have to balance that with my great knowledge of the game, and if that truth hurts certain Koreans, hen so be it. |
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Donghae
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:51 am Post subject: |
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Ever met any Coventry City fans?
And why do so many England fans go on and on and on about 1966 as if it was a few years ago?
For gawds sake, mate, June 2002 was Korea's finest ever hour in football and will probably remain so for a long time. So of course they'll go on and on and on about it. You sound like you're too young to remember Derby winning the league in 1972 and again in 1975, but if you'd been around then surely you'd have done the same and talked as if it was '75 for the much of the rest of the decade and beyond and would have happily watched endless re-runs of the games. If my team ever wins anything again  I certainly will. And what's wrong with that?
Sorry, but if anything you've proved the point I was making. For some people, the Koreans just don't know their place enough and need to be put in it. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| Donghae wrote: |
Ever met any Coventry City fans?
And why do so many England fans go on and on and on about 1966 as if it was a few years ago?
For gawds sake, mate, June 2002 was Korea's finest ever hour in football and will probably remain so for a long time. So of course they'll go on and on and on about it. You sound like you're too young to remember Derby winning the league in 1972 and again in 1975, but if you'd been around then surely you'd have done the same and talked as if it was '75 for the much of the rest of the decade and beyond and would have happily watched endless re-runs of the games. If my team ever wins anything again I certainly will. And what's wrong with that?
Sorry, but if anything you've proved the point I was making. For some people, the Koreans just don't know their place enough and need to be put in it. |
I think it is infair to equate informing people with "putting them in their place". I reiterate, the expansion of the game is a good thing. However, time moves on. Of course I hail those achievements under Clough, but such recollections are personal. But many Koreans I have met have misuse those memories, (or cheapened them) and made silly arguements like "we are the best in the world" "England are not as good" "look at the world rankings" etc. I make no excuses for pouring water on their stupidity. You are obviously knowledgable about the game, and as a result I would have thought you could distinguish between the exploits of Birmingham City, and Korea's achievements in 2002. I don't know many people in the UK who wish to deprive Birmingham their moment of glory. Quite the opposite, I find that the English like to see the unfashionable outfits perform well. |
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Donghae
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, yeah, they tell you "we are the best in the world" and they're so stupid they actually believe it, don't they?!? Annoying, isn't it? Someone's got to tell them, I guess. Similarly, I drive round southern Japan with a hideous sticker on my rear window proclaiming "The World's GREATEST team - Birmingham City". Yes, stupid, but, me, I know my place, so no need to "pour water on my stupidity" I'm knowledgable about football, y'see, so I don't deserve it.
Anyway, good that you "think it is infair to equate informing people with "putting them in their place" "because I have to inform you that those achievements of Derby in 72 and 75 were NOT both under Clough; the first was, the second was under Dave Mackay, Clough having left early in the previous season  |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:53 am Post subject: |
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How do you think Korea will do in this years Asian Cup in China?
www.asiancup2004.com
I don know a heck of a lot about the teams in this tournament but I think Korea has an easy group. |
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rudyflyer
Joined: 26 Feb 2003
Location: pacing the cage
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:14 am Post subject: |
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wish Iraq was playing, maybe they would of brought their WMDs
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Holyjoe
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Away for a cuppa
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Donghae wrote: |
Irony/sarcasm can be missed on a messageboard but I'll assume you meant that last bit & say cheers, mate.
I know plenty of people WOULD be happy to see us do an Ipswich. We're not a very fashionable club at all, and in many people's eyes, teams like us are allowed their little moments but should ultimately know their place. I believe it's similar thinking that explains a lot of the negativity from Europe and some westerners generally about Korea's progress - "who do they think are"etc, etc as if they have no right to be get excited and dream unrealistically when they do well.
We'll probably miss out on the Champions League 4th place, but will hopefully get into the UEFA. |
Definitely no sarcasm there, it's fantastic to see. Unfortunately for myself I only caught the tail-end of Aberdeen's glory years, and for the past ten years the Scottish football league has been desparately in need of something exciting to break the monotony of the gruesome twosome running away with the championship.
Looking at the table, I think I'll be praying for Blackburn to get relegated - seeing Sourpuss and his collection of ex-Rangers players drop into the 1st division would be rather nice 
| Quote: |
| How do you think Korea will do in this years Asian Cup in China? |
They should do OK... funnily enough it's not really mattered to them much in the past. They did win the opening two tournaments in 1956 and 1960 (when they hosted it), but they last appeared in the final in 1988.
A fair bit of importance has been placed on this years competition though and anything less than a tournament win won't be looked upon too favourably... |
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