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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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 Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: Obama's first order of biz: closing Guantanamo |
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Good:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28788175/
That place heavily damaged America's rep and yielded virtually nothing on actionable intelligence. Good riddance. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:12 am Post subject: |
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I always thought it was ironic that the Bush gov't took much more of an aggressive stance towards individuals & companies who keep their money/operations offshore to evade the US tax system, yet installed prisoners offshore to evade the US legal system.
And they had the nerve to shake their fingers at these individuals/companies for "evasion."
Money = more important than due process/habeas corpus--it's got a healthy whiff of banana republic doesn't it. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: |
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The not-too-subtle digs Obama laid on the Bush Admin. during his inaugural acceptance speech were great. Bush just sat there trying to be cool, but the cheers of the crowd in response to what Obama said had to have gotten through his head. Or maybe not. Whatever. He's out, along with his posse.
I don't know how well the Obama Admin will play out, but it's a tall order to endeavor to screw up more than the Bush gang has managed to *beep* things up. There's a reason the Repubs are "re-branding" themselves. It's because they have been an absolute nightmare, and anybody who says otherwise must be battling profound developmental issues.
In the alternative, perhaps all the shit isn't the Bush gang's fault. Maybe Jesus came back to Earth and he's very pissed.  |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:21 am Post subject: |
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HUGE bump:
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| Attorney General Eric Holder today will announce that self-proclaimed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammad will be tried in a military commission, CBS News has learned. A source says the commission will be held at the Guantanamo Bay prison. |
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20050405-503544.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody
But.. wait a second.. Didn't Obama close guantanamo a year ago? Since Bush is no longer our president, msm doesn't talk about it much anymore. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| He'll get to it. Just give him four more years, right, Yat? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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They may have gone over Holder's head on this. But it is discouraging. Americans' faith in their justice system is just pitifully lacking.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: The Capitulation Is Complete
| Andrew Cohen wrote: |
In the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the Obama administration's capitulation is complete. Attorney General Eric Holder, who only 17 months ago heralded a federal civilian trial in New York City for the man accused of masterminding the largest mass murder in American history, now has the dubious chore of announcing to the world that Mohammed instead will be prosecuted by military commission down at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
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Some of [the victims and survivors of the 9/11 attacks] wanted to see Mohammed tried in Manhattan, in what would have been the shadows of the Twin Towers. Others did not. But a mob, even the most sympathetic one, doesn't get to make venue decisions under our rule of law. Prosecutors do. Which is why I was struck -- stunned, actually -- when Holder refused to directly answer a question from a reporter about whether he, the Attorney General, was actually saying that he knew better than some of the 9/11 groups about where the Mohammed trial should have been held.
Deflecting the query, Holder said he knew better than Congress, which is true. What he should have said is what prosecutors say every day in this country when they charge people with crimes: Polls don't determine how prosecutions are conducted, prosecutors do. Now, those would have been fighting words -- and no less so because they are true. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
They may have gone over Holder's head on this. But it is discouraging. Americans' faith in their justice system is just pitifully lacking.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: The Capitulation Is Complete
| Andrew Cohen wrote: |
In the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the Obama administration's capitulation is complete. Attorney General Eric Holder, who only 17 months ago heralded a federal civilian trial in New York City for the man accused of masterminding the largest mass murder in American history, now has the dubious chore of announcing to the world that Mohammed instead will be prosecuted by military commission down at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
...
Some of [the victims and survivors of the 9/11 attacks] wanted to see Mohammed tried in Manhattan, in what would have been the shadows of the Twin Towers. Others did not. But a mob, even the most sympathetic one, doesn't get to make venue decisions under our rule of law. Prosecutors do. Which is why I was struck -- stunned, actually -- when Holder refused to directly answer a question from a reporter about whether he, the Attorney General, was actually saying that he knew better than some of the 9/11 groups about where the Mohammed trial should have been held.
Deflecting the query, Holder said he knew better than Congress, which is true. What he should have said is what prosecutors say every day in this country when they charge people with crimes: Polls don't determine how prosecutions are conducted, prosecutors do. Now, those would have been fighting words -- and no less so because they are true. |
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They need to take every precaution that the innocent sheik will be convicted, any other verdict would also call into question the propriety of the conviction against Lynne Stewart. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| He'll get to it. Just give him four more years, right, Yat? |
It won't happen. Obama was defeated by the politics of fear of the GOP; the Dems as a party caved to it. Put the blame where it belongs. It's a political victory by the GOP.
The GOP has to have these guys tried in military courts because that reinforces their concept of War on Terror. Key word: war. If the trials are civil, then this is not a war. Interestingly, the conservatives who whine about a declaration of war in Libya don't seem to need one for the War on Terror. I have to wonder why that is. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| He'll get to it. Just give him four more years, right, Yat? |
It won't happen. Obama was defeated by the politics of fear of the GOP; the Dems as a party caved to it. Put the blame where it belongs. It's a political victory by the GOP.
The GOP has to have these guys tried in military courts because that reinforces their concept of War on Terror. Key word: war. If the trials are civil, then this is not a war. Interestingly, the conservatives who whine about a declaration of war in Libya don't seem to need one for the War on Terror. I have to wonder why that is. |
OR he simply realized he couldn't close it down and he was stuck with it. Not everything is connected to partisan politics ya-ta. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| OR he simply realized he couldn't close it down and he was stuck with it. Not everything is connected to partisan politics ya-ta. |
I'm going to have to disagree with this one. WHY couldn't he just close it down? Because members of Congress objected...can't have terrorists in my district--they might attract other terrorists like magnets.
At the presidential level, even the brand of toilet paper is partisan. (It shouldn't be, but it is.) |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| OR he simply realized he couldn't close it down and he was stuck with it. Not everything is connected to partisan politics ya-ta. |
I'm going to have to disagree with this one. WHY couldn't he just close it down? Because members of Congress objected...can't have terrorists in my district--they might attract other terrorists like magnets.
At the presidential level, even the brand of toilet paper is partisan. (It shouldn't be, but it is.) |
Ok, how would you close Gitmo? And congress has not passed anything to prevent Obama from moving those prisoners here to the "mainland".
Also Terre Haute did not object to the G-mo prisoners being moved there, only some state politicans (from areas other than Terre Haute) who passed some symbolic resolution that has no authority whatsoever.
Terre Haute Mayor: G-mo Prisoners Likely Won't Land in Indiana
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| �They�ve already got terrorists down here. There are already all kinds of unsavory characters in our local prison,� Bennett said. � If they brought a few more prisoners here, more than likely we wouldn�t even know that. And it wouldn�t be a significant local issue, any more than it is today. You know, we get whomever they send.� |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| OR he simply realized he couldn't close it down and he was stuck with it. Not everything is connected to partisan politics ya-ta. |
I'm going to have to disagree with this one. WHY couldn't he just close it down? Because members of Congress objected...can't have terrorists in my district--they might attract other terrorists like magnets.
At the presidential level, even the brand of toilet paper is partisan. (It shouldn't be, but it is.) |
Ok, how would you close Gitmo? And congress has not passed anything to prevent Obama from moving those prisoners here to the "mainland". |
You're both a bit correct, however the 'muslim fear machine' exists in both parties. Simply put, Holder is ostensibly not supposed to bow to public opinion, but his post remains very political. Most Americans don't want KSM tried in NY. Polls indicate that Americans don't so much care about Guantanmo anymore. Obama has few alternatives politically. |
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