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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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 Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| So if I understand this correctly the might of Europe and the Commonwealth were unable to deal with Gadhaffi's legions without U.S. help. |
Yeah. Well, US has unique capabilities as your Mrs. Clinton mentioned (we do so like her in Europe), such as the weapon USA has used, the smart missiles to minimize civilian casualties. And that's really cool. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Isn't that what we want? Ground-level CIA involvement against guys like Khomeini and Gaddafi? Isn't that much better than the neo-con plan?
This is assuming that the CIA knows what its doing, however, which is a pretty big 'if' |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
Isn't that what we want? Ground-level CIA involvement against guys like Khomeini and Gaddafi? Isn't that much better than the neo-con plan?
This is assuming that the CIA knows what its doing, however, which is a pretty big 'if' |
While it is true that the CIA has long-standing ties to al-Qaeda (including the Libyan rebels), is that really what you want? I don't.
Khomeini and Qaddafi never bothered me. Leave them the eff alone. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: |
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yes, a libyan news agency is 100% trustworthy in covering the events going on there. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:20 am Post subject: |
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That's a cuckoo Libyan conspiracy theory site. Really, I thought more of you than to post that.
| Someone on Ghaddaffi's Payroll wrote: |
| As we had revealed before, the planning of the attempt to remove Qadhafi from power and remove his strong support within Libya and to bring about a compliant dictatorship there, began long ago, and reached fever pitch last November. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
| Isn't that what we want? Ground-level CIA involvement against guys like Khomeini and Gaddafi? Isn't that much better than the neo-con plan? |
It is the same goals. Different tactics.
How did the US earn the right to reorganize foreign societies? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:10 am Post subject: |
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We can skip the back and forth and establish that I don't accept the UN as a source of legitimacy and you do. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| When did France earn the right to reorganize societies. The French are no only in Libya they have invaded Ivory Coast. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| When did France earn the right to reorganize societies. The French are no only in Libya they have invaded Ivory Coast. |
Aren't they in the Ivory Coast in support of the fellow who just won the election there? If so, that is not reorganizing the society in question, it is assisting the legitimate, elected leader of the nation. |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
How did the US earn the right to reorganize foreign societies? |
No state earns the right to do anything. They either do it or they don't. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
| When did France earn the right to reorganize societies. The French are no only in Libya they have invaded Ivory Coast. |
Aren't they in the Ivory Coast in support of the fellow who just won the election there? If so, that is not reorganizing the society in question, it is assisting the legitimate, elected leader of the nation. |
Yes, exactly. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
We can skip the back and forth and establish that I don't accept the UN as a source of legitimacy and you do. |
That's an excellent way to phrase my position; I accept the UN as a source of legitimacy. It is a necessary source of legitimacy when, as here, America itself or its close allies are free from imminent threat or harm. That does not always mean it alone is a sufficient source of legitimacy. But there is also a historical precedent for this Libya action.
So, the means are so far reasonably legitimate. The question that remains: will the ends also be justifiable? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| When has the UN not agreed to a war the Americans wanted? I'm being serious. I don't know. |
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